now b4 you flame me, the cattman headers look amazing and all...but the price is a little steep for me right now...as I suspect it is for a lot of people on the boards here...

I know hnda etr has seen 22whp peak hp with the cattman headers over his stillen y pipe setup while boosted!!

22whp over the stillen y pipe alone...so I guess things really start to get interesting when running boost on our cars...

headers on our NA maximas are significantly less impressive!!...5 or 6 whp gain over a y pipe...just doesn't justify the labor or gain...if you pay for it...the sound does change and it sounds more refined...which I like

as every knows for a 4th gen max..there are 3 header choices, cattman, obx, and stone racing....the sone racing ones are "shorty headers" where you can keep your current y pipe if you want, they bolt right up...which is kinda nice...I would love to keep my warpspeed mandrel y pipe!!!

do you think after reading the past review of these on vqpower and seeing their design in the nice pics they have of them, I would find a gain when I go S/C'ed over just having a y pipe?? I know it is hard to predict....but if anyone is on here boosted and running headers other than the cattmans...let me know what gains you recieved over just a y pipe setup alone...

review, pics, and dyno plots of the stone racing headers on vqpower:
Stone Racing Headers 95-99 3.0L

 

why do you need headers if your going to get the PFI kit?

 

I never said I am getting the pfi kit....I said I am getting a V1 S/C kit...

 

they sell the Stone mountain racing header son e-bay for $300 plus shipping. Its a pretty good damn deal.

 

anyone have an opinion of this? I guess what we really need is a definitive dyno comparison of each headers..

 

which I know doesn't exist yet...but if you were on a budget, would you get the OBX or the stone racing headers?

 

I'm leaning toward OBX over Stone Racing because of the longer, equal length primaries. The design of the y-pipe is atrocious, though.

A custom made, better designed y pipe mated to the OBX headers would be a better option, but the end cost might be as much as Cattman's.

The Warpspeed 3" y pipe and exhaust and stock headers has been shown to give greater gains than the Cattman headers, though.

 

You get what you pay for.

 

For boosted maximas it is better to just get a 3" exhaust, rather than 2.5" headers. Headers would be worth more if they were designed for 3" for SC or to adapt to turbo kit. Just my opinion.

 

Yeah, the 3" exhaust is the way to go if you're after maximum power. Power is not my only criterion, though, and if the Cattman headers sound as good as some people are saying, then that has its value, too. I'm looking for a good balance of power, reliability, driveability and sound.

 

well...would it matter if I were to get 3" exhaust and throw away my 2.5" if the headers were still restrictive (stock headers)? the headers would still be too restrictive to take advantage of the larger exhaust I would think, plus I would loose low end with a larger exhaust...I thought the cattman headers and the 3" exhaust were both equal in gains on boosted maximas??? around 20whp or so?

 

The dynos I have seen of the Warpspeed 3" y pipe and catback with stock headers show gains throughout the rpm range, with a ~30 hp peak gain.

The only dyno I've seen of Cattman headers on a boosted Maxima showed a gain over only a very narrow range at high rpm, with a 22 hp peak gain. If I recall correctly, the catback was Cattman's 2.5" system. Probably the gains would be comparable to Warpspeed's with a 3" catback.

The evidence seems to indicate that the stock headers are really not that restrictive.

 

is that to say that I would get a peak gain of 30whp if going from my current setup or going from stock? I have 2.5" mandrel bent WS y pipe, high flow cat, b pipe, and their performance muffler...so I would see a 30whp gain over what I have right now...

if the headers aren't that restrictive...how do you get a wooping 22whp gain peak...?

 

If they are so restrictive, how does the Warpspeed exhaust get you an even higher gain with the stock headers? And not only that, but gains throughout the power band, not just over 500 rpm at the top end?

Well, okay, to be fair what we don't know is what gains a 3" system and headers would give.

This is why I would, if I were going for maximum SCed power, get the OBX headers (cuz they're cheap), throw away the awful OBX y-pipe and have a custom 3" y-pipe and catback made to fit the OBX headers. Then again, maybe I would just get a turbo kit instead.

 

when we're talking about a horrible obx y pipe design, are we talking about a few less hp then it could produce if the y pipe design were better?...or are we talking about a lot?

 

Who has the stone racing shortys...Any dynos with warpspeed 2.5' y? The labor dont bother me..and for 300 bucks it would clean up the engine bay a lot...and give it a great sound...and hopefully a little better feel in the upper revs.

 

Tight angles, unequal length secondaries, the collector pipe diameter doesn't look large enough for boosted engines.

Wait a minute - collector pipe? What collector pipe??? The rear secondary just butts up to the front secondary with NO increase in pipe diameter to take into account the additional flow!!!@@#@!!***#!

And maybe worst of all, the 90 degree junction where the rear secondary meets the front secondary.

 

Get some custom headers made with 3 inch collector then get a 3 inch exhuast. Custom headers will still cost about $700-$1000 and the cattmans are like $700 plus you would get better gains with the 3 inch collector.

 

so, avoid the obx at all costs got it....I would guess if I were on a budget though, I could keep my WS mandrel y pipe and get the stone racing shorty's....

realistically, cattman has no business selling the heades for $700...it should be more like 600 alone or even 500 in a group deal!!!

 

What do you know about making headers? How are you so sure that he has no business selling headers for $700? There are 4 cylinder Honda headers that cost $1200+, is $700 so bad for V6 headers? Comptech headers for Acura/Honda headers are over $1K.

The reason OBX or Stone Racing headers are so cheap is that they are welded via robotic welders in Taiwan, have no finish time, and no R&D or design time. It was basically make something fit in the space provided, screw flow. Look inside anything either company makes and notice how sloppy they usually are. Slag everywhere, they often need to have the ports cleaned up from weld and what not.

And you always get what you pay for.

 

wow....i just got ripped a new...lol....

anyway, the comptech headers are 1k b/c they are exactly that, comptech...look at everything comptech makes..and they are equally overpriced for what you get...I just think he should knock $100 off that's all...

 

especially for us org members....cause if they sound as good as everyone says they do, then it will sell itself as the more of them he gets out there....the more maxima members that will hear them at the meets...therefore generating much more sales!

 

umm they do so much R and D. And this why mugun uses there designs and just renames them becuase they always make the best gains possiable. They might make 5 plus designs and see which one makes better gains and flows better.

 

your going to boost your car and you expect to reliable and short change stuff?

 

what? you might want to rephrase that....

well headers shouldn't make a car any less or more reliable...just the gains will be different...all I am trying to attain here is whether the stone racing headers would give me a good sound and gain when boosted...

 

e to a y, not that hard.

and please stop replying to your own posts, edit them.

 

it's faster and easier this way...that is the point of a messageboard system...it was designed for fast conversational answer and responses....hence the name forum!


"e to a y"????

 

And Cattman headers are exactly that, Cattman, have they ever been known for making cheap parts? I think their business is built more on quality than price.

And FWIW, I think SWA has the headers for $650 shipped, so it's really not $700.

I just hate it when people always say that a part should be cheaper because "they have no right to charge what they do". Without knowing how hard it is to fabricate something, you don't have any basis for saying the price is too high. We deal with a lot of shops that fabricate parts like this, and we supply parts to some shops like this, so we've seen what goes into the parts.

If you want cheap, then OBX and Stone are available...

 

wait, so SWA has them for $650 and you know that SWA is still making a decent profit @ $650...

 

maybe I should just contact Dallas @WS and have them whip up some headers in the following months...that will kill the game!!!

 

Wow, are you really that naive about business?

Cattman has to list them for retail. He has to do this because he has his distributors and his list price has to be above theirs. If his list price was lower than that of his own dealers, who would wholesale for him? So of course SWA has a lower price.

And since we supply SWA also with parts, I know that they make surprisingly little on each part. The markup from what we sell to them for and what they sell to the customer for is not much.

Bottom line, don't like the price, don't pay. But you don't get to dictate what shops charge for their product. If all customers were like you, nothing new would ever get made because there would never be a profit margin to work with.

And if you really think Warpspeed can make a better product for less, by all means get them to make it.

 

I already did. To his credit, he wasn't interested in whipping out a cheap design that might not improve performance. And he didn't think it was worth it to spend the time and resources to do it right, at least not at this point.

And cheap headers do become a reliability issue if the flanges warp or the welds crack.

 

what??? OMG...that is exactly how capitalism works...the customer dictates the selling point...the customer is the market...shadow....

so who took the freedom to express oneself and rant in America away? last time I checked, it was still an inherent, and essential right...LOL...anyway, I would never argue with Stephen Max, from previously conversation with you, you clearly know your stuff....other orger's on the other hand..............your opinion is the definitive one....what would you decide to do if on a budget? wait longer and get the cattman's? on another note, I hear the cattman headers and y pipe throw your exhaust to the rear an inch or so...if so, I will have exhaust issues all over again! with centering and alignment...not to mention my b pipe is basically welded to my frame in a sense (well sorta)...

in other news...even the cheapest y pipes such as the budget don't have welds or flanges crack or warp....but I agree, the OBX is not the way to go....however, I am still trying to acertain if the Stone Racing headers are...as they look from their design in the pics of them on ebay and on vqpower.com...would these short like headers give me a good sound and good flow characteristics...??

 

Jesus Tapdancing Christ this is an annoying thread...

To answer your question yet again, you get what you pay for. The stone racing shorties would probably be an improvement over the stock manifolds, but they won't be as good as something which has equal length primaries, etc. I'll say it again YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. if you want to gain more significant amounts of HP you are going to need to get better header than the stone racing, but they will cost you more, hence the phrase "you get what you pay for." Do you want us to quantify the gain you will see? Well you're probably SOL for that one because I don't believe anyone has tried the setup you are suggesting.

Personally I would skip the el cheapo headers altogether and do the 3" exhaust, you are going to be losing sigificant amounts of power from having your 2.5" on there, I'd wager you will have a faster car with a Stock manifold>3" y-pipe>3" testpipe or cat> 3" catback than you would have with Stone Racing cheapo headers> 2.5" ypipe, cat, and catback.

 

would I lose tq by going to a 3"??? so no stone racing dyno's as of yet...I don't even think there has been an OBX dyno that I can recall yet...hmm...I think I will just bite the bullet and get the cattman's if they do make our cars sound great!!!LOL

 

so equal length primaries are what makes the power cause of non-turbulence of the two banks of exhaust streams hitting each other....but the cattman's also have longer headers than the stock ones I think...would that make it have more low-end and less high end like the intake idea that a pop charger gives you high-end but the CAI gives you more low-end?

 

No, you get to choose whether or not you'll buy the product at the price point the seller decides. If not enough people buy, the business modifies their price point/product or goes out of business. It's that simple. You can rant all you want, I can rant all I want.

And the Stone Racing shorties really aren't going to gain anything over stock like Neal is saying. The design isn't any better due to space constraints, and in that short of an area, not much can be done. BTW, my comments on their quality are from personal experience, have their turbo manifold on the wife's Integra. Not a bad piece for the price, but the welds aren't great, and the design isn't either. It'll be replaced at some point with a higher quality piece.

And of course even the cheapest Y-Pipe isn't going to have cracked flanges or warp, or what not. It's just that, a pipe. Do you ever hear about exhausts cracking flanges or warping? Not really, there isn't any load on them. The cheap headers aren't going to fall apart on you, but if they don't get the gains you want due to design, then they're still worthless.

BTW, if you think I don't know my stuff, try me...

 

you drive an auto?

 

do you have it built? or just VB upgrade and cooler?

 

It's not built, Mobiltek VB, tranny cooler, and then we have a prototype LSD we built for it. It's the same LSD Stillen now sells. Other than that, it's stock.