Hey guys I have been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure if I would ever do it but if I do end up making some more power with the Vq35 I think this is how I would do it.

But I wanted to know standard pricing for a couple of the parts required.

I was thinking of buying a used shortblock right now you can find them for a few hundred bucks. Getting it sleeved and boring them out to 100mm, at which point I heard its the same bore as a chevy 350 so I could use custom chevy 350 pistons with stock or forged rods.

The things I need pricing on are the sleeves, and how much it would be to bore them out to 100mm?

I also need to know how much it would be for the custom chevy 350 pistons.

Also how bout tuning? I know the stock ECU will tune its self to account for the extra air coming in but I am sure I would have to upgrade my fuel pump if not the injectors as well. From there tuning should not be pretty simple I would imagine. Just get the A/F ratios straight and I should be ok.

I think the sleeving and boring would be a large portion of the cost so I really wanted to know how much that would cost. I dont think I would need anything else. If I kept the stock rods I'de get rod bolts, the stock crank is ok.

The stroke isnt being played with at all.. and I would just need to add intake and headers to feed this thing the air it deserves, which I would do anyway.

With the extra half liter of displacement I should be able to surpass 300whp all motor pretty easily and I dont see any reason this engine setup would be any less reliable than stock.

From there I could spray a 100 shot and I think I'de have more than enough hp for my needs.

I suggested this idea before and suggested raising the redline to around 7000 -7500 and someone said the stock 3.5 heads would choke it at those rpm and it would be stupid. Does anyone know if this is true?

I know they make heads for the G35s and 350Zs that I could use in addition but they are too much money and cams would be pointless if the heads dont flow well enough to match the cams, plus I dont want a lopey idle on a luxury sedan.

There was someone on here who originally suggested this idea and said he could get it done for less than 2500 so I am curious to hear from you guys how much this would be.

 

Anyone?

I think it was blackbirdvq who originally brought up the idea... and I am just wondering why no one ran with it. It seems like a much more cost effective option than going the FI route.

 

people that take on these kinds or project don't ask how much it's going to be. If you're asking how much it is most likely you don't have enough.

Every person's swap is different.

 

That's a steep ladder you're trying to climb there... dont let it tip over...

 

Sleeving and boring are the only large costs here that I see... Chevy 350 pistons are pretty cheap. And the bolt on mods for the engine I would do anyway. So please inform me why it is so steep. If anything it should be a lot less steep than any FI route available right now.

 

Ha, Thank you

Your optimism is noted and inspiring

but from the q's your asking it doesn't sound like your going to do any of the install yourself, which will cost you twice as much as the incompatible parts you'll have to finagle together; but

Theres a much easier way to get a 4.0L into your max...
it's called the VQ40 buy one, find a way to install it, Enjoy!!

 

What tranny are you planning to use?..

 

My tranny would be built by NRH transmissions. I would buy a shortblock. Have a shop do the work on the block and I would switch my stock shortblock (thats in my car now) with the built shortblock. I dont see why this is hard to understand and I dont know why your givin me ****.

The sleeves are 1k

I just need to find how much installing sleeves and boring usually cost

and I need to find out how much it would cost to get the chevy350 pistons modified to accept the vq35 rods.

I dont need people givin me ****. If you dont have information dont post smart *** comments

Again Blackbirdvq was the one who said he was thinkin about getting this done by a shop and it would supposedly come out to about 2100$ after labor.

 

Stock bore on a 350 is 4", or 101.6mm. Still attainable through boring out, but it's a 5.6mm bore, or something like .220". I've never really seen a bore over 45 thousandths (just over a millimeter), except on blocks that have had the water jackets filled up with crete creating basically a solid block short of the oil galleries (i.e. pure race car for straight line runs only).

It would definitely be an interesting project, though.

 

I finally found the post I was talking about that blackbirdvq made.

here it is

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...2&postcount=78

Now I was thinking I could put this in my daily driver, but I'de have to spend
4k on the tranny first to build it up. Or I could find a very high mileage 95 maxima for under 2k and spend the remaining 2k on a clutch and tires and some suspension work....hmmmm this would be a pretty cool ride for pretty short money.

Strip out the excess weight and it would be a 400-500whp w/nitrous in a 2800lb car.. It would sure be nice to see the look on the viper owners face as I got next to him on the highway and proceeded to walk away quite easily.

If I wanted even more HP I could supercharge it... the block is already sleeved, it would already have relativly low compression pistons.. it would be all set for a supercharger. But again I wouldent do that mainly because the supercharger system alone would be more than the engine, and not to mention at those power levels I'de really start having trouble with the tranny and that again would bring the price of this project out of scope for a weekend toy.

It would be even better to put it in a 3rd gen but that would take too much fabrication thus too much money to do. The 4th gen would be a pretty simple swap in comparison and I'de do it myself.

 

100mm bore x 81mm stroke = 3.8L not 4L.

You could put the VQ40 crank in there and get a 4.3L since you are probably going to need custom rods to fit the pistons.

The Chevy pistons also are made for 2 valve heads and you would need them made for 4 valves.

You can try to get this together, but since no one has done it there is really know one to spoon feed you a write up and price list. This done right would provide a ton of Hp. However you are going to have to do your own homework.

 

ohh yeah and heres the proof that the darton sleeves can be bored out to 100mm, or about 4" or about the same bore as a chevy 350

http://www.injectedperformance.com/V...t.aspx?ID=3879

 

What you're talking about doing - something supposedly never done before - can't really be budgeted for.

You'll realize once you do some work on a car, particularly something new, that you can't figure out the exact cost, etc. on something like you're describing because you're going to run into one hurdle or obstacle after another(that you didn't count on occurring) that you have to overcome (time and $).

Also consider that most, if not all of the people who have done something to this extent before, did it pretty much all by themselves; they performed the labor.

You're talking about all of this engine work. Obviously you can't do it; so someone else will need to (I'm talking of all the internal work you mentioned here). Additionally, are you planning on pulling and dropping the engines/transmissions yourself? You realize that people (shops) aren't going to pull the parts off your car and put them back on for free right? That's a significant amount of labor cost there alone.

Last but not least...what exactly are you looking at out of this car? You talk about SFCs, you talk about suspension setups, you talk about built transmissions, built hybrid engine swaps, etc. Is this going to be a project car for you? Do you have a daily driver for the many days this thing would be down during A) the build, B) trying to get it running right, and C) when inevitably some new, unknown issue comes up and leaves it stranded until it's figured out? In all likelihood, you're not going to retain 100% stock driveability here.

You're giving people crap here for "smart-a$$ comments"...I think they're trying to impart a sense of reality to you.

It's easy to talk the talk. But relatively few, if ever, walk the walk. And there are reasons for that.

 

For 1 I'm not sure if anyone ever figured out for sure if the vq40 crank will fit in the vq35. Custom rods = big money. I can see stroking the motor just being a nightmare. And increasing the price of the build greatly. Sleeving the block and boring it out seems a lot more simple granted the work is done correctly. Also there are a lot of 4 valve 6cyl engines out there with 100mm bore I wonder if those pistons would be a better choice than the chevy pistons.

 

Nothing comes to mind..

 

Ok and I'm picking peoples brains on those reasons. Trying to use the collective knowledge of the board to come together to talk about this idea, which suprisingly doesnt get talked about a whole lot in comparison to FI. Which is just as expensive if not more so and most likely less reliable (for the most part the only reliable turbo and supercharger kits available for engines that came from factory with relativly high compression N/A engines are made by companies with a LOT of money for R&D, and those companies generally dont make parts for our cars because we are a small crowd) . How do you know you wouldent retain stock drivability? What about sleeving a block would make it any less drivable? Would it be as refined? No, but a lot of people claim the VQ35 isnt as refined as the VQ30. The only thing that would seriously change the drivability of the car is if I got cams. Than my idle would be rougher when its cold and it might be harder to start in the winter.

I am not saying I am going to do any of this. I am not promising anything. I am gathering data and weighing the costs and benefits and reintroducing this idea to get more people thinking about it because from what I can see it seems like a much better option than any FI option we have right now, plus people with the VQ35 (unless its in a 4th gen) dont have the FI option and some of those people may want to push more than 300whp and this might be a good option. There is no reason a sleeved and bored block should even be any less reliable given the work is done by a good shop. And drivability should be 99% of what it was. Like I said it would be less refined..but if you want maximum refinement you shouldent mod your car at all.

I would be installing the short block myself. The 4k I quoted for the built tranny is including work. If I put the vq35 in a 4th gen I'de be doing it myself. Which is what anyone else on here would do. I wouldent be doing the sleeving and boring and neither would anyone else here, people would be crazy to leave that job up to anyone but the best machine shops, and I don't think anyone on this board has that experience and equipment.


The vq40 is not an option because its mounting bolts arent transversly mounted friendly it bolts into the engine bay like a RWD car, thus you could possibly fit it in a G35 or 350Z but you wouldnt be able to do so because the block is physically taller, meening you'd have to run a silly lookin hood and I believe no one has figured out for sure if the vq40 tranny would match the vq35 thus theres no reason to think the vq40 engine would match any of the vq35 trannies.


And Using a Vq40 crank on a vq35 block I believe puts the pistons into the heads.

Not to mention increasing the stroke of the Vq35 further would make the engine less rev happy and more torquey, which is not what I want on a fwd car.

As for dealing with the problem of having my car down for a while. It wouldent be as bad for me as most because I go to school thus I dont need my car 8 months of the year. And if I deided I wanted to buy a high mileage 4th gen for short money, instead of building up the tranny on the I35 than I would obviously have my I35 to get around in while I was building the 4th gen.

And I talk about this and talk about that and you may try to rag on me for talking too much and not walking, but remember I am the one whos car is going in the shop on the 12th to be the first car on this board to get custom SFCs fabricated and installed on his car. And a few days after that I will be installing my illuminas and H&R springs. Of which I had been talking about quite a bit because I was doing research just as I'm doing now and will do for every modification I make on my car. And so far it looks like I've not only been walking but even at times jumping into territories where others werent ready to go (SFCs) So please why dont you use your knowledge to develop this idea further to help the community overall rather than wasting it worrying about me.

 

Well talking is certainly something you can do.

As for the SFCs, more power to you. I think I'll hold my breath until they're complete. Plenty of people have made claims about them before and nothing came of it. Yes, I'm a skeptic. Feel free to prove wrong.

And using my knowledge to help the community? I've done plenty of that through "doing." Maybe not on un-tried motor swaps that I'll never intend to complete myself, but in other areas, yes.

And don't you worry. I could care less about you and all your talk. I was simply trying to point out the real world issues (rarely considered by most it seems) surrounding what you asked about.

Good luck. Seems that more research on everything is in order for you.

 

I shouldent have said V6

its not a v6 but the inline 6 that used to be in the land cruisers was 100mm bore and 4 valve.

I also thought the old porshe 964 (the 911s from 89-93) were 4 valve engines so I was gonna say these are a possibility

http://www.europeancarweb.com/projec...505ec_proj964/

but they arent..

But you can get pistons for the 3.6L 4 valve/cylinder engines in 100mm bore found in newer porsches.

The porsche 944 is 4 valves/cylinder with 100mm bore as well of course I'de need to source 2 additional pistons.

 

Indeed this is a different approach I was also thinking about the same thing last year but. I've done swaps before and still do swaps for people. The only thing that stops me from researching and getting concrete answers to the difficult questions everyone has is MONEY. If I had the time and money I would find out these things in no time. lol Dman that reminds me I have to play de Latto

 

So..

TB??
IM???
3.5 heads
4.0 B bored 100mm
custom pistons
custom Rods
Fully built transmission but which one?

This is an all NA build with maybe nitrous?

I just want to get a clearer view of exactly what you plan on doing..

 

Dont worry about the SFCs. They are going on.

As for this idea about sleeving the block. Why dont you tell me why it wouldent work. Its already being done with a couple G35s and 350Zs.

Check this post out from g35driver.com
http://g35driver.com/forums/showpost...5&postcount=29

As he said hes just waiting for the Cometics 100mm bore head gasket and he will be all set.

This is why I say enough with the jacka$$ comments. Its close minded people like you who slow our progress as a community

 

If you plan on sleaving it your good for 600hp at least why not build it for FI?

 

If you're going to talk, at least get your facts straight. I never said it wouldn't work. I said all this is going to take time and money and that when you start doing serious work stock driveability is rarely retained as it's rarely a plug 'n play affair. Please try again.

Me? Slow progress as a community?

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Ever.

Step 1: remove head from a$$hole
Step 2: join human race

Then I'll put some credence in what you spout.

I'm done here.

 

Not a 4.0L block bored to 100mm.
I would take a vq35 block, sleeve it with darton sleeves, and bore them out to 100mm which is their max bore. From there pistons are still up in the air, the original idea was to use chevy 350 pistons but this guy on g35driver.com is already doing exactly what I'm thinking about and he used 100mm ross pistons.

you can see what I meen here
http://g35driver.com/forums/showpost...5&postcount=29

I would probably keep the stock rods and get rod bolts. Stock crank. The cometics head gasket, which is supposedly coming out so that people can do this very buildup on their vq35.

What compression I choose would be dependent on what the builder suggests seeing as I am planning on adding a 100-150 shot later.

As for the Intake manifold and throttle body.. I am not thinking about that yet. the bolt ons I am a lot less worried about than getting the bottom end straightened out.

If I put this engine in my I35 I would have to get the auto tranny built by NRH. But I was saying that for the same 4k I would have to spend to build the tranny I could get an early 4th gen 5sp with high mileage and get a new clutch and some Drag radials and swap the sleeved vq35 into the 4th gen.
The tranny should hold if I was running the vq35 all motor.

 

Slow progress is still progress.

 

Because FI would probably double if not triple the cost of the whole build. If the motor went into a 4th gen you could run a supercharger pretty easily and that wouldent be bad but it would still increase your costs significantly.

I would go all motor with no bigger than a 150shot that way you avoid the cost of DPI. And although tuning is required with nitrous its no where near as much as say a custom turbo kit. Plus a lot cheaper too!

 

I just found the solution for the problem of not having head gaskets for 100mm bore.. I just found out cosworth maks them in 100mm

http://www.forgedinternals.com/store...cat=264&page=1


So now what to use for engine management?

 

EMU ..........

 

Using the Chevy pistons is a good idea in theory but it will wind up being more trouble than it is worth as it seems. That is great that there are other engines that use 100mm pistons. Does that make your life and easier? No. The many differences in pin size, valve setup, ring setup, etc. just don't justify the lowered cost if you have to basically get custom pistons anyway. Thus you had might as well start out with 100mm VQ35 pistons if they are made or custom ones designed after the VQ35 to begin with.

The VQ40 crank is pretty cheap ($300-400) and if you get custom rods (you probably should anyway) then you just make them shorter to compensate the deck height. True it does make it more torque based and it complicates the engine build and design aspects, but it would definitely bring much more area under the curve to the table. It is your engine build however.

How much power do you really expect this to gain? .3L is not a ton of displacement. I mean displacement never hurts, but do you really expect to get let's say 100hp out of 300cc. I just can't forsee this is being more cost effective replace to a SC or even a Turbo especially if you build the tranny and do whatever else you plan. I definitely don't want another NA/FI arguement, but it raises the arguement. Nothing would make me happier than for you to prove me wrong. I would love to see more really fast and uniquely built Maximas, but I just think you might be in over your head on this.

I assume you are going to use the VQ35 heads, IM, etc since your car is already set up for it and they are known to provide more power anway. A 350Z manifold, EU, and cams on top of the VQ38 would make a monster.

BTW Matt93se and several others had to have "custom" SFC before they were in real production from Warpspeed. The Warpspeed set and any other ones that have/will be made for Maximas are pretty much custom made. Don't think you are amazing b/c you found of a place that does roll cages/SFCs in the yellow pages. Not flaming, but if you expect to have your ideas taken seriously, try to learn some humility (this is just a car forum) and know what you are talking about.

 

So far from reading on g35driver.com it looks like its gonna be about 1000 for the sleeves and about 1000-1500 to install them and bore them out. Head gasket 200$ AEBS pistons around 800$, Rod Bolts 200$

So your lookin at around 3500$ for 3.8 (Not 4.0L thanks for correction spig)

 

I understand what you meen and in fact .3 Liters is not a huge difference but you also gain a built bottom end as well as .3L. Plus when I first saw it I thought we were getting .5L more displacement which in my mind seems a lot more substantial than .3L. But I feel the combination of increased displacement and a built bottoms end for this price is a good deal. Yes this motor with the 350z/G35 performance heads and cams, Intake manifold, throttlebody, Intake, headers and exhaust would probably put out 350whp or more. It would kick ***.
And yes increasing the stroke would kick *** and would produce a lot more area under the curve, but thats one build I am absolutly sure I dont want to do. I will leave the possibility of doing that build to someone else.

Also to make life easier you could use the AEBS pistons which are 100mm and go for about 800$ That way you wont have to get custom pistons. And when I was stating the other pistons that are 100mm from 4valve engines I know they would have to be customized as well to work with the vq35 rods I was just stating them as possible options.

As for the SFCs I meant the first 5th gen (which I think I am the first) to get it done but to be honest I am just trying to shut MetaOrbit up I'm not trying to discredit Matt Blehm or anything. MetaOrbit is so damn negative on every single one of my ideas and I thought I would take that chance to point out to him that the suspension setup and SFCs I talk about I am going through with so stop bad mouthing me because I'm not just talking. Hey he took the first shot I was just defending myself.

Btw I am not saying I am gonna do this to my engine.. I just think it should be talked about more often to let people know its possible to get 300whp all motor (probably 350whp)

 

Where's AEBS these days?

 

supposedly the guys over a g35driver.com talk to them pretty frequently and you can still buy parts of, or all of, their 4.3L stroker kit.

 

vq sleeves are already bullet proof... you dont need to sleeve it.. there was a thread about it a while back...

 

Tr00f. The 3.5 block is good to damn near 4-digit HP levels.