I drive the sh*t out of my max and can't stand how it handles. I was thinking of getting a stage2 LTB and a RSB. Is the stage2 a task I can do with the car on stands + air tools or do I need lift? Is this combo going to give me any oversteer? I would like a little oversteer if possible but I know I can tweak my tire pressure if needed.

 

Are you lowered? I'm looking at your sig and i don't notice any spring/strut combo.

 

yeah I have the same question....and if not start with all the other suspension mods first....front and rear strut bar, rear sway bar and strut/shocks and some good springs...then if you still hate it go to the Stage 2 LTB but that is just my opion

 

I would love to lower my car but the roads in Rochester suck, so many pot holes. Its not even a matter of paying attention, you actually have to choose which pot hole is better than the next to drive though. Plus Buffalo and Rochester are only have 2 seasons winter and construction, lots of uneven roads where part is paved and part is torn up.... plus I hate slowing down, I speed to much.

I understand lowering the center of gravity is huge on handling and so can spring stiffness play a major role..... ugh, so many options.

 

I Have Eibachs and Illuminas now and when my car was stock the potholes here in MA were bad enough that the car would bottom out every once and a while. With the Eibachs and Illuminas, I really dont notice the car bottoming out any more than it did when it was stock. Also ground clearence is still good enough to travel dirt roads with relative ease for a sedan, so your not loosing much practicality of the car. The LTB I do worry about though cause it hangs down pretty low.

 

I have to agree with sciff5 on this one, i live in RI and the roads are garbage, most of the time you have to pick which pothole you want to hit, I recently put on kyb agx, and progress springs and let me tell you it was well worth the money, and if you have them on there soft settings it a somewhat comfortable ride, but when you put it on the stiffer settings omg it handles like a dream.

If you drive the **** out of your car I would say throw a fstb in to stiffin your chasie, and a rear anti sway bar to reduce your body roll, so even if you dont end up droping it, it will still handle much better.

 

Exactly what is it about your handling that you want to improve? Grip? Response? Stability? Handling balance (understeer vs. oversteer)? It's important to know what exactly you want to improve so that you can pick the appropriate parts.

Using what you mentioned as examples: A Stage 2 LTB (like any chassis stiffening mod) is mostly for stability, and RSB is mostly for handling balance (less understeer/more oversteer) and also helps response. But neither will help your response as much as springs and struts, and they almost definitely will not give you any extra grip. In other words, your car will behave more consistently, respond to steering inputs faster, and understeer less. It also might feel better when you're hammering it, which may give you the impression that you're actually able to corner harder. But your ultimate grip limits won't actually be substantially higher.

Also bear in mind that there are adjustable coilovers that can allow you to keep your car at or near stock ride height. You can also order them with custom spring rates if you want something that's not too much stiffer than stock.

 

I know you wont agree with me AT ALL doodfood but I dont feel any coilover system for the maxima is reliable enough for use in a daily driver unless you lived somewhere like South florida or Southern California. All of the coilover systems available for the max seem to have a much higher chance of blowing when the person using them lives in a place thats cold, and has lots of potholes. Buffalo fits that description to a tee... The thread starter said they wanted more oversteer. Well usually people get the RSB to make their car oversteer a bit more, but in my personal case I havent found that. I think that springs/shocks and the RSB can make your car oversteer slightly. Also tire pressure does play a roll in how your car handles. If you want oversteer make the tire pressure in the back higher than it is in the front.

 

Edited for truth.

Plus, ANYTHING you do to improve the handling of your car will cause extra wear and tear. Even chassis stiffening (since it will make the suspension work harder).

You can generally expect about 2 years or 50k miles out of a good set of coilovers with default springs before the shocks start to go soft. The thing is, default spring rates are very high -- usually 3 to 5 times as stiff as stock. If you're going for near-stock ride height, and if all the roads around you are really bad, you DEFINITELY don't need springs that stiff. You'd be totally fine with springs that are around 1.5 times stiffer than stock. If you order a set of coilovers from a good manufacturer and specify springs that soft, they will adjust the valving of the shock absorbers in the kit to match the springs. That might cost you a little extra, but here's the trick: even after re-valving, they'll still have the same huge shock pistons, heavy-duty internals, and efficient heat handling/dissipation that they need to handle the super-high spring rates... only you'll be drastically understressing them because your spring rates will be near stock.

Thinking about it now, I'd be willing to bet that such a set of coilovers would last longer than almost any aftermarket struts (except Konis) with lowering springs.

 

Of course he picks the shocks that are known to be finnicky in cold weather as an example. Care to make that same bet against my Illuminas with their lifetime warranty?

 

AGXs have a lifetime warranty, too:
http://www.kyb.com/service/warranty.php

Also, whether a shock is finicky in cold has nothing to do with how long it lasts. It's just a result of how sensitive the design is to temperature.

So, sure, I'll take that bet. EDIT: Above post duly edited.

But we're missing the point. The main argument for coilovers here is that the OP said he wanted to keep his ride height, and coilovers are the only good, easy way to do that and still have stiffer springs. You can't do that with a conventional spring-strut combo... unless MAYBE if you get Ground Controls. But those are noise-prone, and you won't have the benefit of having matching shock valving.

 

I'll make doodfood happy.. cause he never stops arguing

Get coilovers.. see what happens

 

Are the Tokico blues any good on a '90 maxima? I'm needing to replace the worn stock struts. At 191k miles, the stock struts really give this car that granny bounce as it goes down the road. While I'm replacing the struts I also plan on getting some lowering springs for it and possibly some sway bars. Has anyone here had any experiance with Sprint Springs or Ksport? I've been lookin around on the web and found some good deals on these springs but I have no idea if they are a quality product. I used to have a '91 Q45 and I used Tokico blues and Weapon-R coilovers (lowering the car 2" all around) and while it was a bit of a rough ride it was stable as a rock and could corner like mad.

I'd post a new thread on this, but evidently I need 15 reply posts to create a new thread. Thanks spammers! :P

 

Why stop? If you think I'm wrong, and if you can back it up, why not speak up? I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong.

In case anyone cares, I called up Ksport to ask about this earlier today. They're not necessarily the ultimate authority, but they're a good brand and the guy who usually answers the phone there seems to know what he's talking about.

According to him, the answer is yes: if you got one of their kits with soft springs and had the shocks valved accordingly, their heavy-duty construction would allow them to last MUCH longer than with the default rates, and most likely longer than most other aftermarket shocks. The only potential problem is shock travel. Ksport's coilover kits run shorter shock bodies to accommodate a high range of height adjustment, which means they won't have as much shock piston travel and MIGHT bottom out if your springs are too soft.

Needless to say, Ksport is not the only coilover manufacturer... If any of the other manufacturers makes coilovers with more shock travel, those might be the answer.

 

autobotguy, Ksport makes good coilovers but their springs are getting reviews that are lukewarm at best. Sprint springs have a much better (and MUCH longer) reputation.

 

1. Threadjacking is a here. Make 15 legit posts, and then ask your question.
2. This is the ADVANCED PERFORMANCE SUSPENSION AND BRAKES thread. It is not the forum for "which springs are the best" or whatever and nobody here cares how much it lowers the car, unless it has a correlation to the suspension's geometry. Take these basic questions to the general forums or the generation-specific forum. This forum is for discussing more technical topics relating to suspension.
3. There is TONS AND TONS AND TONS of information here on the org about which springs are better, which struts are better, if Ksports are good, etc etc. Take a few minutes and LOOK AROUND before asking this kind of basic question.

 

If you are looking for a small change in ride height and would like to keep soft feeling of the car ask Larrio bout his Boss Chen coil overs.

Tein makes a SuperStreet coilover set, but with those you loose a bit of suspension travel once ya start going lower and lower... they are stiffer than stock.

JIC makes a great coilover set, but they can get very rough, and on a 5th gen the 9kg front and 6kg rear combo really sucks- and its what they sell as a kit. I feel like the rear hops around too much with 6kg springs I would recomend going with 8kg for comfort in the rear, and if you intend to race 10kg will be the hot ticket here.

All coilovers make noise, so its something you need to deal with. JICs vs anything else is pretty much a wash... JIC give you the ability to tailor your suspension to your needs 100%.

 

I would really like to reduce any body roll right now, the car leans too much on long hard sweeping turns especially as im trying to accelerate though them. That feeling is psyching me out cause I think im going to loose the back end and i'm probably not even close.

 

A RSB will make a big difference in this and ride quality will remain stock.

 

^^ Exactly. What you asked for is exactly what a RSB does.

And you are correct that, you most likely aren't anywhere near losing the rear. Your front end will lose it LONG before that.

 

Has anyone actually sucessful made a maxima have oversteer? I want to neutralize my maxima but really dont know how.

I have D2 coilovers. FSTB, and RSB. I have tightened up the rear springs to increase oversteer but I still have understeer.

 

With same size tires all around my Maxima can be made to oversteer so eassily it looks like I could be the 1st FWD car to win a D1 drift event. Ofcourse this is why I run wide tires in the rear- to neutralize the handling.

What do you mean you tightened up your rear springs ? You increased the damping on your shocks ?

 

Yeah, but don't you have custom spring rates that are much higher in the rear than what most people have with their coilovers?

I think he means he increased the preload on the springs.

 

Yes I added preload to the rear springs. I have new 17x8 wheels but I havent tried them out yet because when I got the wheels I was pulling the trans the same day. And now I have to break in my clutch.

 

if you preload your car too much it will handle even worse, too much preload will put too much stress on the shock also. JIC recomends that the springs are "little" loose on their perches for ideal preload. I messed around with preload, it just makes the ride more choppy.

I have played the spring rate game for a while on my Maxima, and I have my own prefference for spring rates on my car. They are about 100lbs stiffer in the rear than the front, which gives the back end- which most of the time is 25-45% softer than front springs, a change in the way the rear responds to sudden moves. For instance I can enter the corner fast and the car will kinda slide through the corner neutrally, but if I where to jerk the wheel really fast I can get the back end to step out. For anyone whos ever drove a modified B13 Sentra SE-R, this is normal as those cars tend to be VERY tail happy for a FWD.

Most people dunno what to do in a situation where the back end slides around in a FWD car. Common missconception is that you let go of the gas pedal- like in a RWD car, but if you do that in a FWD car the car will just slide even more. So you have to get used to the idea of "pedaling" the car through the corners It comes natural once you've raced FWD for a while.... for sure I didn't aquire the skils overnight.

 

Remove the front sway bar like Brian (BEJAY) did, IIRC. Then you'll have some oversteer

 

I agree, remove the front sway bar and do not get the ltb...then you will have oversteer....

some fully prepared civics that I know that do road racing run rediculous spring rates in the rear...something like 10-12kg...and for a civic being as light as they are is crazy! the advantage being that as soon as they let off the gas, their rear is already rotating...I drove my friends at willow...it caught me off guard for the first few laps, but after some time with it, the setup feels great and is the only true way to be competitive in a FF (FWD) car...so it all boils down to how competitive you want to be!

there are so many ways to increase oversteer or reduce understeer that it would take a long time just to list them here...!

a 200sx se-r that competes regularly in se-r cup I had the chance to drive, his spring rates were around what mine are on my heavy maxima by comparison, but he zeroed out his toe in the rear (by having the beam bent)...did wonders for the car! after that I was sold and had it done to mine (best handling improvement I have done to date bar none)...I have yet to do the urethane rear trailing arm bushings (sitting next to me as I type) or adjust my stillen rsb, but with zeroed out toe, I can tell you that my car is almost always neutral, with easily induced oversteer through harsher than normal steering action, (not even trail braking)...I will never go as far to remove the front sway bar I think, but if the endlinks start giving me trouble such as irish just discovered on his car (and what might be afflicting my car), I might just remove it for less maintence...although I would imagine it would be difficult to remove given how tight everything is in there and how the bar is shaped...plus it could save a good deal of weight up front! As of right now, to rotate the car as well as some of the FR (RWD) cars I autoX with, all I have to do is jump off the gas and then as blackbird mentioned..."pedal" the car through the turn...

you guys have to remember that when you talk about spring rates, you have to keep in mind the harmonic balance front and rear which many coilover manufacturers for our cars have used to carefully select spring rates...this is related to curb weights front and rear (their distribution) which translate into different wheel rates (which are volumes more important than looking at proper spring rates alone)...case and point, even with my 450f/350r, the wheel rates are still actually higher at the rear I believe since the weight back there is so little...bejay if memory serves, is running something like 700f/450r, the balance according to his calculations is still toward the slight oversteer since our rears carry so little weight by comparison...but there are many other factors at play such as how those spring rates are damped by different valving...

next step for me and what should be for everyone who hasn't done it yet is SFC's...since our cars are so long in wheelbase, that our chassis' are like a wet noodle in a sense--can't wait to have them custom made...I have never heard someone regretting doing them--and in many cases, I have heard people stating it was the biggest handling improvement they have ever done...something I have always subscribed to: the weakest link in our maximas and what's holds us back besides suspension geometry--our weak chassis...stiffen that up and all of a sudden our suspension can work much better/more efficiently!

look at all those german sedans everyone calls the "ultimate driving machine"...people wonder why they handle so well stock as if there is some magic that their engineers are capable of...it's not magic...that great unified feeling you get when driving them is the chassis being very stiff and hence connected/unified....not to mention that everyone fails to notice that they run stiffer suspension tuning and lower profile, wider tires than any japanese sedans being released these days--no wonder they always do well stock in tests/comparisons...but they don't see as great of gains when modified since they start out so great...which is what I love about the max!

I would rather decrease understeer than increase oversteer...as you can find more speed that way. run more aggressive alignment up front, reduce weight up front/improve front to rear weight distribution.

 

I dont wanna dial in a lot of oversteer. I just want to neutralize the car. I am thinking about a LTB stage 2 but I dont know what that will do.

How much did this cost? My rear wheel is leaning in some and maybe that would help out quite a bit.

 

anytime you stiffen anything up front and not out back, you will get more understeer...that's just the way it is. but many of us would rather accept a little more understeer for better steering response that the ltb gives...

the rear beam bend cost me IIRC about $120...but you have to keep in mind that their are very few people in the US that can even do this without damaging other components...so it has to be done by the right people...there are only two that I know of personally...one on the east coast and one on the west coast here.