I understand the adaptors StephenMax makes close the cams at 44 degree's. After speaking with him, there isn't too much room for a later closing. Would the 44 degree be ideal for good gains or should I go with more later closing to get the most out of the cams? Or, should I just get standard spacers and get cams drilled from there?

Timing advice would be appreciated. JClaw gave some great tips on timing but his setup is on a completely different car. I'm behind on this project and would like to get started since the weather is getting warmer.

Thanks,

 

I have access to 3.5 maxima 2002 cams also, I would like to know if I make the cams drilled , do they adapt to VQ30 cam gears and is any gains from the later cams in a 3.0L. I'm full bolt-ons.

 

You would still need to get spacers for all of them, as the 3.5 cams are slightly shorter than the 3.0 cams. As far as cam timing is concerned, this thread still applies to you....

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=506342

 

The title is deceptive. To me, I thought I was coning in here and seeing if he could swap VTC's on the DEK. But nope, different than I thought.


No you're not.

 

You need spacer/adaptors
There are a lot of write ups on the swap in stickes and search etc.

Unfortunately there is not a lot of info on the best timing settings for timing noobs

 

What I was looking for but couldn't find it. Thanks.

 

Yes.


.

 

I'm pretty deceived by the way your try to help people. Try to be positive sometimes, men!!. Personally, I never saw a positive post from you and I've done researches. If you wanna be recognized as a helping person, stay positive...

 

That's because there is no single correct answer. It depends on where you want your power.

 

I want my power at mid to high, not losing too much on the low end.

 

I have a question.. what do you get for cam timing.. if you convert a VQ35 over to a VQ30 front cover/timing chain setup, use spacers, and just flip the intake cam sprockets 180 degrees? The large dowel pin holes on the VQ35 cams are 180 degrees away from the small dowel pin holes, which the VTC sprockets use. So, if you install dowel pins in the large holes, you could use the VQ30 sprocket, turned 180* on the intake cams. I'm not concerned about the trigger sensor/marks on the cam gears, as I will be running a standalone.. I was told that it's not exactly 180*, but it's within a few degrees either way.. I never could get a straight answer..

Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about..

In accordance with the FSM, the small dowel pin holes are at 12 'o clock on the intake cams.. which puts the large dowel pin holes exactly opposite at 6 'o clock.. so, by turning the sprockets 180*, I can make everything line back up.. the question is.. how far away from 180* are the large dowel pins.. and which way is it.. if anyone knows.. If not, I can break out my degree wheel and figure it out I suppose.

Travis

 

For you Travis flipping it should work, since you are not using the stock ECU and sensors. If it is advanced/retarded it will affect the power band some of course, but as long as it is close it should run. I am sure you know more than me about cam timing tuning, but without a degree wheel or better yet a dyno, no one will know for sure how exactly we would want them to be.

Since most people drill the cams, and aftermarket cams can be pretty expensive, why couldn't we just drill the sprockets? Just wondering if there are some good reasons why no one has tried this. I would think the sprockets would be much easier and cheaper to replace if something went wrong or if you wanted to tune it better.

 

I've been wondering about this topic a lot lately. I don't know how retarded or advanced my cams were set when drilled. The car feels really powerfull at around 4500rpm. Not so impressive below 4k.

Is there any way to check the angle without pulling the cover? I plan to get the vtc working somehow and I will need to figure this out.

 

It's simple. Tilley originally drilled the cams halfway between what would be full advance and full retard. The cam timing specs with the VTC turned off (fully retarded) is IVC (intake valve closing) @ 64* ABDC (after bottom dead center) with 2* of overlap. The VTC sprockets sweep 40 crank degrees so 64-20 = IVC @ 44* ABDC with 22* of overlap. Stephen max does the same with his adapter/spacers. I've posted this before...

Is your VI working properly?

 

To me the spacer/adapters are still the best option since you don't have to drill anything. You could resell aftermarket cams like nothing happened. And changing cam timing would be as harmless as removing and installing new adapters.

 

No he didn't. I watch him do it. And when I asked him about that specifically, he had no idea what I was talking about.
He drills the cams so they are degreed the same as a 3.0 cam.
He pretty much told me and showed me exactly how he has been doing it and what he used.
Ask abci30, I went with him.
Abci30 went with drilling so there wouldn't be all that shear stress on an 1/8th inch of aluminum. Much cheaper to drill and go with spacers too.

 

Degreed the same as a 3.0 in terms of what? Intake valve opening or closing? LSA?

In any case, the person that told me this was mistaken i suppose. He's been making the spacers/adapters that most are using now and told me that's how they were done.

I stand corrected.

 

He made something to orient the center of the 35 cam lobes the same as the 30.

 

Ok so he based it on lobe separation angle.

LSA = (intake centerline + exhaust centerline) / 2.

The stock 3.0 cams have a LSA of 113*. In order for the 3.5 cams to have a LSA of 113* the intake centerline needs to be 114* ATDC since the exhaust centerline is 112* BTDC. According to my calculations (assuming of course that these cams have symmetrical cam lobe profiles which i highly suspect) this results in an intake valve closing of 53* ABDC and 13* of overlap.

For comparison:

Stock VQ30DE = Intake valve closing @ 49* ABDC and 6* of overlap.
Stock VQ30DE-K = Intake valve closing @ 41* ABDC and 6* of overlap.


I'll update my thread with this info.

 

NICE! Good information here....

95naSTA- Are you sure this is the way Tilley does for most installs? I'm assuming then that my cams are tdrilled the same way.

Nismology- No I haven't hooked up the VI yet... I've been a little lazy. If Tilley is using LSA to mimic 3.0 then theoretically what rpm would I want the VI to open?

 

I'm gonna have to play with my exhaust ones when I get them to close in the large overlap. I though the DE-K was 44 but I guess I'm wrong. based on the specs of the spacers/adaptors I'm getting I will have a 12* overlap. Its tough since no one up here local does this stuff.

 

Get it working and it'll help out your mid-range quite a bit. 3.5 VI is open by default.
I'd set it to open up around 3600-3800RPM (like stock).

 

Yep. When I went there, he said that is the way he has been doing it.

 

They hardly try to help people they usually here to bash newbie trying to learn, or get mad if people dont reveal their setup from top to bottom, not understanding that if they lived in the hood they probably wouldn't reveal their setup either cuz it might get stolen.
On a lighter note glad to see ur puttting in that much research into this. I love threads like this becuz I learn a ton of info. Keep up the good work.

 

So cam spacer/adaptors are on their way. 56* closing and exhaust left leaving 10* overlap. Man I hope the hell I'm about to go through installing these pays off.

 

So a DEK swapping over to VQ35 cams would gain a little more than a DE at equal intake valve closing right?

 

Everything else being equal including 00VI, intake/exhaust setup, tuning etc., yes.

 

Does anyone know how to check to make sure your timing is right when you have timing components taken apart? im doing the vq35 swap in my 99 max and i just want to be sure the timing is correct? thanks!

 

I am assuming you are using stephenmax's cam adapters.

- For the cam timing you want the two dimples (one on each intake and exhaust cam secondary sprocket pair) to be facing each other at either side of the cam tensioners.


- You match the large intake cam sprockets (primary chain) so that the arrows on the sprockets match the dimples on the timing covers on each side and the dark chain links will also line up with these indicators. Then when you put the primary chain on the rest of it, you have to have the orange piece at the notch on the inner part of the crank sprocket, the outer notch faces the TDC indicator on the water pump's cover if you put the timing cover on and where the crank sprocket's woodruff key matches the equivalent slash line on the oil pump.

-this is not always easy to use the oil pump case's slash because the woodruff key is much much thicker than the slash on the oil pump. you want to match the LEADING EDGE of the woodruff key to this slash, meaning the left side of the woodruff key (motor turns clockwise) This is not very well explained but you will see what I mean.

- Take a look at my thread for pictures
http://forums.maxima.org/7863310-post130.html

- however, in the last picture in the url above I was PROBABLY off a chain-link because of that slackness 2 links above the orange link, I removed and redid this area after this picture. I don't think I had the crank turned over far enough so I put the bolt on the crank and turned it slowly (and extremely carefully) by hand until it was more precisely at TDC.

-You don't want any slackness on that side. Its almost hard to get the primary chain on when you are 100% timed you sort of have to work it on gradually. The main hangup point as I recall is the waterpump and the chain guide below it as well as the crank sprocket, you sort of ease it onto these sideways, its hard to explain.

-Also make sure your tensioners are all primed, put them in a cup of oil and squeeze them in and out until they fill with oil, then squeeze them all the way in and put a pin in it to hold the plunger in until you get that chain on.