I've been running the Koni/GC combo on the rear of the car for a few weeks and I got this result...



These are the upper hats and washers that got chewed up.

GC was nice enough to send me another set of upper aluminum hats and some other smaller washers. They claimed that I was sent the wrong instructions originally when the paper clearly said the install was for Koni yellows. So when the new hats came in, the paper work said they were for AGXs.

Anyways I swapped out the new hats and washers, the same sound and clunking was there. Took apart the struts and the same wear is occuring to the new upper hats. Question I have is this wear and noise normal or is there something wrong with the setup im using?

On the newest setup Im running (4th or 5th revision at this point ) I am using new koni yellows, homemade rubber spring isolators, NISMO strut bushings, no dust boots, stock OEM upper mounts, GCs with 375 lb springs, and Hypercoil 2.5" helper springs & Genesis Technologies 2.5" helper spring guides.



This is an older picture just to visualize the setup I have. As I've said im no longer using dust boots and im using a different sized washer above the gold upper spring hat.

 

Reminds me of something....

Hopefully it pans out. I have started undergoing redoing my front Konis as well so I can actually hold an alignment...

 

Im also running at stock ride height, not even lowered yet.

The front Konis are not even in yet, im trying to get the rear working ok before I install the fronts.

I have to admit it has got ALOT better over the last couple of revisions with regards to noise. I've also got a decent rebound ALMOST dialed in for the spring rate.

 

I've got mine set to full firm with Eibachs and I feel like it's about right. I'm afraid if I go to 450/375 from 250ish/180ish that things are going to get bouncy. Got any videos of your car in action?

 

Im thinking of drilling two small holes on each GC upper spring hat and zip tying them to the top of the springs? This should keep the hat and spring centered and should stop that nibbling.

 

Which "revision" of GCs do you have?

Any pics of the rear assembly disassembled?

 

The bump stop needs to go inside the spring, not above it. right now, you've got the entire weight of the rear end supported by a soft rubber bushing. it keeps compressing and the GC upper spring perch slides against the strut as it compresses and wears on both the strut shaft and the top hat.

 

Matt, thats somewhat true, but there needs to be a bushing under the OEM mount. There is no other way for the rear suspension to flex. Its not a bump stop BTW.

Joe I know you have it close, you have already seen my pix, so Im not much more help.

Good reference:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...t_1/index.html
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member.../751162_28.jpg

 

Heh already did that before Matt. I had the Koni bump stop outside the spring.

That star bushing is a NISMO one, it's alot stiffer than the stock star bushing. But you make a good point. I wonder how bad it would be to run this setup without the lower star bushing? There is some rubber on the strut mount so that might impart some flex and it might work.

Edit: I think we need that star bushing.





Well I took it for a short ride up and down the block just for laughs. It's floaty as expected, funny thing is that it now sounds ok on the driver's side. I kept the passenger side the same as before and it's only noisy on that side.

 

OK figured it all out. Im an idiot...

I was looking at the stock rear struts and remembered that they have a small flange on the strut rod to hold the upper GC spring hat. I looked thru all the Koni boxes and found the two small steel bushings rolling around. I ended up taking the rears off and put the steel bushings on the Koni strut rods and drilled out some washers to fill in the gap between the rubber star bushing and the upper GC spring hat.

Everything fits together very tight now, nothing rattles around. Took the car for a spin and what do you know. Next to no noise or clanking at all. On a positive note all the other stuff I did to reduce noise and adjust the Konis makes the car ride REALLY good. The struts are almost perfectly dialed in to the springs.

So now it's on to the front struts this weekend...

 

OH, well I didnt know the metal bushings were not on the konis from the factory! Its good to know you finally got it sorted out.

 

Oh yeah. been a few years since I've worked on a minivan.
either way, that much rubber in there can't be a good thing for a performance suspension. you need to figure out some other way to hold it captive and get the weight off the rubber. that rubber chunk there drops your spring rate from a decent number to crapola..

 

Tein pillow ball mounts are the only mount available to rid the bushings, yet no one has gotten them for an a32.

 

Do the Teins use the stock type rubber bushings? or do they provide some steel or aluminum bushings to take the place of the rubber ones?

I might give the Teins a try someday. Im getting near the cost of JIC A2s at this point of the suspension upgrade, might as well go all out.

 

I am considering them, but also being wary of what happened the last time I tried your suggestion of turd gen reds

I do not see how they could be much of a problem though. How did Ben's mounts "slip" exactly?

 

Bens mounts dont hold the spring in place, my plates look just like Joe's(the strut rod not staying in the middle). My strut rod has a dent in it as well. As of right now I am using the stock mounts and it does ride better. I have yet to bottom out so I don't think I need the tiens, so I will hold off on those unless you can give me a good reason to buy them.

 

Don't hold the spring in place? How do they slip?

 

It's a flat plate so the spring can slide around.

 

Gotcha.

 

I dont know the ins and outs of the Tiens, but I did post about them with pix. They are sort of like stillen camber plates, no rubber, just a bearing.

ME and Bens mounts slip. Bens are a much crappier design and slipped like a ****. If they had some sort of lip they would be great.

 

Josh (mowgli29) and I are looking at the Teins but it looks like they're designed with only the damper connected to the pillow ball, and the spring seated on a stationary part (a la Ben's or ME's). If you're running GCs and try the Teins, it will be putting the stress of the spring on the PB the entire time.

is there a CORRECT way to use GCs in the rear?

 

what he said^^

AND, is there any way to get some helper springs for the front without spending 100+?!

 

Alright let's make sure this front setup is right. I think this will work and should not make much noise.





I got the Stillen camber plates, strut bearings, GC upper spring hats, helper springs, spring indexers, Eibach springs, and the GC height adjusters with the strut housings welded to hold the stuff all together. Im gonna get the hardware to bolt the Koni struts to housings and put in some rubber isolators on all the metal to metal contact points.

 

Looks good to me. Youre running the konis unshortened right?

 

Nah they are shortened, you were the one that drilled those strut housings for me.

Also looks like the new Koni yellow fronts you can cut off about 1/3" of the threaded part. I cut off 1/4" and there is still to much metal left.

 

Just be weary of cutting too much off...

And make sure you do not torque the retaining nut down too much...

 

As of right now the large washer isn't close to resting on the strut bottom, so I need to cut more metal out to make it work.

Do you happen to know the TQ spec of that retaining nut? I only hand tightened that camber plate nut enough to keep everything together for some photos.

 

The top (strut rod bolt) is around 70ftlbs. The retaining nut on the bottom is like 50ftlbs IIRC, do NOT torque it this high or you will most likely rip out the threads. Just use loctite instead and maybe JBweld/epoxy the strut in.

 

Believe it or not I never torqued my 1st set. I didnt use epoxy or loctite either. I only had to retighten them once. Thankfully I figured out the problem before it became a real issue.

When I did a couple of sets for some members I torqued one to 50 ft/lb with no problems. I was pretty hesitant and went very slow. The other pair I must have left them around 30 ft/lb. Both got epoxied into place with red Loctite on the bolt. Both were the newer, shorter design.

When I did my B13 torqued them IIRC. Those bolts were short as hell; I bought them ready to go.

 

Fixt.




:ninja:

 

I just got out-spelling/grammar ****'d

I salute you sir

 

OK I could not find big washers to use for the struts. Im wondering where did you guys find washers of that size? Im going to check out Home Depot tomorrow and see what they have. Right now I only got 2" diameter fender washers that are to small to reach the sides of the strut.

Also looks like im going to have to find shorter bolts to use or cut the ones Koni gave me for the struts. They are 10~15 mm to long for this application.

 

I got washers from Lowes. They are as wide as the bottom of the housing with a 1" hole. With the newer Konis you can use washers with a 7/8" hole. Another solution is a bicycle headset spacer, 5mm thick I believe. Then you can use it under the koni washer. Thats what all the Sentra guys use and I have them on my B13. Its basically a piece of aluminum pipe cut down like a ring.

I couldnt find shorter bolts, so you need to cut them. The thread pitch is 12x1.25 or something around that area.

 

Yeah, I noticed that when I installed my Konis, but I didn't buy new rear mounts so I reused Ben's. Maybe I should get around to installing mounts that don't slip....

 

Hey guys....I'm suffering pretty much the same issue, spring hat slipping and rubbing. Last weekend I re-assembled things in a different order... here are pics of the slippage, and then the solution. So far I've had no noise/slippage with the new setup. see if you can figure out what I changed by the pics:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...C/IMAG0211.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...C/IMAG0222.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...C/IMAG0224.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...C/IMAG0229.jpg

there are more pics in the album and it's set to public, so go check it out. let me know what you think.

oh and 98seblackmax, where did you get the helpers and spring indexers?

 

Funny. I bought my GC used and there was some wear indicating slipping. I put a washer on top of the hat, then bushing, mount, bushing, 4-5 washers,and finally the nut. I just took the GC's off the car and sold em to MorpheusZero. They never slipped and have no indication of more wear. I think the added washers help squish the bushings and help rid the movement. I ran them for a few summers, so I guess I got lucky.

 

Yeah, I had seen your picture with the added washers...and that was my thought too; I should try to squish the bushing more. Well I did that...and it still slipped...partially because the bushings got a little chewed in some places.

After that, I decided to put the spring had directly under the strut mount, and squish them together (so as to make the hat "part of" the mount) with the bushings. There were several reasons for this idea:

1. I had noticed markings on the hats when I got them. There were marks on top of the hat that appeared to be from a gasket (similar to the one between the body and strut mount to eliminate noise). I wondered if that might be because they were supposed to fit directly against the strut mount...Also, there were markings under the hat, that appeared to be from the star bushing. IMO, that indicates that they were previously set up the way I now have them.

2. With the hat directly against the strut mount, the load of the spring goes straight to the body. Something about putting all that load on a tiny little rubber bushing seems wrong. Also, this limits movement of the hat, and the possibility that it will rub. The hat can't move up, there's a strut mount there. Because of the spring, it would rarely be allowed to move down, but even if it tried, the bushings are holding it tight to the mount. The only rubbing that could occur would be from the strut itself moving up and down because of the bushings flexing. With them very tight, there will be very little movement of the strut rod, and a very slim chance that it could cause rubbing.

3. Same concept as OEM. OEM places the spring pressure on the strut mount, not those rubber bushings. The bushings only secure the strut rod in the OEM setup. When you fit the spring had directly under the strut mount, its basically acting as part of the strut mount. The spring pressure still goes to the body, and the strut rod is still secured by those bushings.

4. This is a minor reason...but when the star bushing is placed under the had, and tightened ALOT, (like my pics show) it gets squished and expands to the sides of the hat, keeping it centered.

I have yet to have any noise with this setup. AND, this is the biggest plus, the ride is much less bouncy. I thought maybe my illuminas just weren't up to the task of damping the GCs (which may still be the case), but with the new setup, the bouncing has been greatly reduced. Basically, putting the spring pressure on a bushing between the hat and strut mount is a no-no....IMO

Oh yeah, and that paper you see there...that was my version of a "gasket" between the hat and mount. Don't worry, I know it won't hold up. I'll replace it with a real one if I find that this setup works as well as it has so far.

 

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?fo...action=product

Cost me about $250 shipped for all the helper springs and spring couplers from HRP. I still don't have the front GCs installed yet, so the jury is still out if these help reduce noise and wear. Though they look cool with the coilovers...

I would also recomend the foam bump stops that GC sells.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...php/II=10/CA=1

I bought the soft/progressive 10-14 mm ones for the rear and the soft/progressive 19-24 mm ones for the front.

Also any chance you can edit those huge pics?

 

Are the Koni/GC set-ups always this involved? I need a new set-up with more suspension travel, but this seems like too much tinkering for my schedule these days.

 

Throw on some Eibachs, shorten the Konis and call it a day.