I want to start off by apologizing for writing a book about this, but I wanted to give plenty of detail...

I have been having an issue with my 02 GLE (auto) for a long time, which I believe is timing chain related. I have a noise that sounds exactly what I would imagine a timing chain rubbing against the timing chain cover would sound like. It sounds like metal brushing and grinding against other metal. No matter what the temperature is outside or how long the engine has been running, it makes the noise. When the car is in park or neutral, it doesn't make the noise, it's only when the engine is under load (in gear), and when the RPMs are between 2000 and 2500. Basically right as it's getting towards the top of a gear it starts making the noise and as soon as it shifts into the next gear it stops. This is more pronounced in the 1st-2nd shift and the 2nd-3rd shift.

I have searched and found some other threads from the past where a few people have had the same issue. Of course I know about the timing chain rattle during cold starts that many people have dealt with. The TSB for this issue has the service tech replace a faulty VTC sprocket. My car used to make the cold start rattle before I started having this issue, now it never does. A lot of people recommend replacing the timing chain tensioner for the issue I'm having, but that's a lot of labor money to get to the timing chain area, and I want to make sure that's what the problem actually is first.

So I finally decided to bite the bullet and take it to the dealership (Brenner Nissan in Mechanicsburg, PA). The reason I took it to the dealership was because I figured they would have more knowledge of this issue and of the VQ35 timing chains than anyone else. After explaining my situation in as much detail as I could to the service manager, he tells me that he has never heard of an issue with a 2002 Maxima timing chain as long as he has worked there, and he's worked there for 25+ years. I told him I did a lot of research online and have found numerous other people that have had the same issue, he looked at me with a dumb face. I told him I believe it may be related to the timing chain tensioner...he basically looked at me like I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about. He says that they will take a look at it and call me in the morning...

He calls me the next morning and tells me that my oil's very low, and that my timing chain probably isn't getting enough oil. He says I have an oil leak by my oil cooler, and that he will replace the o-ring under my extended warranty ($50 deductible). I had just done an oil change about 1800 miles before this. He knows I use Amsoil synthetic 5w-30, and asked me if I could drop off 5 quarts and a new filter (which I happened to have). I drop those off and they do an oil change and the service manager calls me later when I'm at work and left a voicemail telling me it's done and fixed. I go to the dealership and of course the service manager wasn't there...he probably sneaked out as soon as he left the voicemail so he wouldn't have to deal with me. I pay $173 for labor, deductible, and some other crap. I knew I was giong to pay an arm and a leg at the dealership and was fine with it, as long as my car was fixed. So I was excited to get in my car and drive away and not hear a noise, but you guessed it, it is still making the noise as bad as ever. I called him back the next morning and b*tched about them charging me all that money and not fixing anything. When it all came down to it, he basically said I couldn't prove it's coming from the timing chain area because I have to be driving the car to hear it. How can I argue this? I have about 2800 miles left on my extended warranty, and I feel that they don't want to deal with a timing chain issue because it's too much work. So $173 poorer and with increased hatred for this dealership, I am back at square one...any suggestions?

 

Move up the chain. Call the zone manager. The last thing dealerships want, especially now, is complaints moving up the chain of command.

 

try a different dealership

 

+1
However, the last people I want to tick off, are people that work on my car. There is no telling what they could do. Basically though, you just paid $173 for an oil change that you supplied the oil for? Sheesh, were they wearing a sandpaper condom and did they give you anything for the burning?

 

If you want to hit them where it hurts, look for the organization which allows them to perform repairs on a car. In california it is called bureau of automotive repair (BAR). If your problem is clearly stated on your estimate, then you are golden. Make some calls and start complaining. Call nissan customer service and put in a complaint.

 

go again and talk to him. tell him first the problem is still there and the tech himself did not fix the problem. Your manager sees what the tech writes in RO and most of the times they do not doublecheck. Tell him you still have warranty and complaint and repair is still covered by warranty and it should be fixed. If complaint is DOCUMENTED before warranty expired they usually will fix it Goodwill after warranty expired if it gets worse (not too much longer though)
So first go back takre the manager out to your car, show him and don't tell him about internet crap. We hate hearing that. Tell him there is a noise and it is up to them to figure out why and if they can't tell them to call TECHLINE and open a case number.
It is not your duty to have someone drive around with u sticking in the engine bay to diagnose the engine noise.
You can suspect it needs timing gear work but if it means they have to give you a full long block engine or fix the timg gear it's their problem not yours. You are just a not happy customer.
Don't go to another dealership yet and if u do don't mention anything about previous dealer experience. If it does not fix at dealer level then u can go to the next level

 

haha +1 to everyone saying to bring it back and move up the chain. The stealership is terrible.

 

The metal mesh part that goes around the flex pipe on my exhaust has disconnected and is semi-loose. They are trying to blame the "rattle" on that, even though the noise is clearly coming from the timing chain area. I know they are just trying to blame it on that so they won't have to address the real problem until I get that fixed. I really don't feel like paying to get that fixed because I know for a fact that it isn't making noise and isn't harming the car in any way.

I already called and spoke with the service manager the next day and he is the one who is giving me a hard time. As far as I know, there is nobody else higher than him in the service department. So I guess I should find out who the next person in line is...

 

I would call and ask to speak to this guy, he is registered with the Dept of Corporation as the owner. Maybe he would like to hear how his service manager/dept is treating you. Good luck.

Name: MICHAEL A BRENNER
Title: President
Address: PO BOX 1955
HARRISBURG PA 17105

 

papasuede is right...that is the owner-write him a letter, he's kindof a **** so be blunt.
\
I use brenner nissan as well, tom the svc manager is actually very good, I assume you mean Tom Cavanaugh-my pops worked at model motors nissan(brenner bought them out few years ago). Donnie is probably the best tech they have there, he's a personal friend of mind and a long time family friend(and a nissan tech for nearly 3 decades).
Best of luck man, i know the feeling.

 

You said the manager countered by saying you could not prove it is the timing chain. That you couldn't hear it unless you were driving. You also mentioned that the engine made the sound when it was in gear.

How about suggesting they put it in gear and use a stethescope (sp?). If you have one or know someone who has one, you might just try that yourself beforehand.

Just an idea.

Good luck.

 

Sublime, are you sure it isn't the heatshield issue that is VERY common on the 5.5 gens... (rear manifold heat shield is defective, and causes a rattling sound around 2000 to 2500 RPM)... it happened to me... it sounds like an engine problem... but it isn't...

IMO if there was an issue with your chain / tensioner you would probably hear it when you started the car up. Also, I doubt it would only make a noise at 2000 - 2500 RPM...

I understand your frustration, but you think the sound is coming from your timing chain. It may not be, and no matter how angry you get, you can't tell them to fix a problem that may not be there...

Have them raise the car up on a rack, someone sit in it and rev the engine (out of gear) rev it quickly as to get to about 3k as and let off quick... maybe 5 in 10 times you will hear the sound (sometimes never) but atleast the mechanic underneath the car would be able to see the problem (if it is infact the heatshield)... The worst thing you can do is go in there all high and mighty saying you know what the problem is when infact you don't...

my 2 cents...

 

+1 definitely agree

 

Does it make sounds every time between those rpm?

 

Merlyn makes a good point, since you are not a technician, what you might believe is the problem might actually not be accurate, give them a chance to fix the problem based on their experience with these cars, then if it doesn't get resolved, move on with plan B. GL

 

if it is the shields tell them you will pay to take them off. Usually 1 hr. Then tell them that if it does not fix it they will be liable for future labour or parts. Catalytic converters by law in Canada are covered till 6 years or 130 Kms. So if it is the heatshield loose and it is the one welded to cat and coming loose it should be warranty especially since you have extended warranty. If the manager is nice he can claim it with a MIL light for cat below treshold code even.
i would agree to pay some stuff though that way when u r out of warranty and if it does turn out to need chain slippers you are not out of 15 hours to yank the motor and reseal timing cover.

 

I noticed it 95% of the time. The best way I found to cause the sound was to go down hill in gear with no gas, and have the RPMs sitting between 2000 and 2500. Granted this was in a manual so not sure about a diagnosis way in an automatic, but I could notice it coming home everyday if I left the car in 2nd and coasted down the hill.

 

Thanks for the responses guys. You are right Merlyn. I am not sure that this is a timing chain issue, but from researching here on the .org, that is the best answer I could come up with. It may be my heat shield, but I know for a fact that it isn't coming from my flex pipe, which is what they keep telling me. You have a good idea of having a garage put it on a lift in gear and give it gas, I could probably tell where it's coming from a lot easier. The thing that pisses me off most about the dealer is that they try to diagnose serious problems by saying my fluids are low. I asked them to take a look at my transmission while they had it there (have a slip from 2nd-3rd). Even though this isn't as big of a deal as the noise, it still bothers me. They ended up saying my transmission fluid was low and charged me $12 for a quart of ATF . I have already done a flush and monitored my ATF before that to make sure that wasn't the problem. Of course after they added a quart of ATF, my transmission was still slipping just as bad as before. I just feel that they're trying to avoid doing any real work and just blaming it on fluids being low. But anyways, I will probably take it to another garage that won't charge me $80/hour for labor, and have them see if they can pinpoint the noise. Thanks again for the help guys.

 

Eisenhauer in westlawn pa, near reading.^^

 

wow I just took my car into the dealer for this, they told me it was the secondary timing chain, luckily its still under warranty.

 

Plain and simple. You have a warranty. Keep taking the car back to them until they fix it. Thats what a warranty is for.
They are probably just mad becaue you came in with secondhand internet info and told them how to do there job. I don't know too may people that would take kindly to that. If they think it's the flexpipe, let them fix it under warranty. If they think it;s a heat shield, let them fix it under warranty. You have a warranty so stop wasting your time on reasearch..the rattle is their problem,not yours.

 

It's an extended warranty that I bought with the car though. I don't think it covers stuff like heat shield or flex pipes, pretty sure it's only major stuff. I am at work right now so I can't read my paperwork for it, but do you think it should actually cover that stuff?

 

If it turns out to be something not covered by the extended warranty then the research will come in handy. Exhaust is generally not covered. I had an extended warranty and it would cover the diagnostic. If they found something that the warranty wouldn't cover, I was given the option of whether I wanted it fixed for a charge or leaving. I think you'll have that option, too.

 

Just Got a call back from my dealer, they are having timing issues now, I know its not my thread just letting you know on my prognosis with my vehicle since its a similar problem.

 

What did your dealer tell you? I'm starting to think that mine may actually be a heat shield issue, I just can't really tell.

 

They told me it was a secondary timing chain, now mind you prior to this I had gotten my car inspected 5-6 Oil changes ago and they told me I had a cracked pulley but it didn't need immediate attention at the time. this past friday I had taken it in because of discovered the problem on thursday they told me it was that and that they needed to order the parts and they should arrive by tuesday so they called me then and I dropped off my car late tuesday afternoon around 3:30 4:00 they couldn't touch my car then, so they got to work on wednesday with it, told me it would be an 18 hour job. I said sure no problem, so I called them today and they told me it wouldn't be til monday when I get my car back. they're having timing issues and what not. since they had to replace the timing chain they went ahead and replaced all my belts etc since it was cover under warranty. my warranty aint up til either 69,000 miles or 12/09 so I am hoping nothing happens in between because i miss being without a car.

 

So I got a call back from the dealer, today car still aint ready, getting really impatient with these people, If they tell me its not done tomorrow, I am not paying the warranty fee of 50.00 if it wasn't under warranty Id be paying close to 3-4,000 dollars.

 

had problems with extended warranty purchased @ dealer; did not want to cover anything....sales rep said that extended warranty's are essentially worthless....wish they said it when it was purchased......also told me that control arm and transverse link were two different things....called another dealer and was told they are the same thing....

 

I take offense to that. We live in the Information Age. We can search and search and make a good faith estimate into the problem we experience with our cars. Sad thing is the older generations (you know the generation who tuned engines with their EARS) are the ones in charge of service at dealerships. Their motto is to blame the customer for everything and charge the maximum amount of money where ever possible.

I wish dealerships would realize if they treat their service customers as actual people and not walking PAYDAYS then more people would return to the dealer for service.

I also have taken my 2002 in to the dealer while under extended warranty and asked about the rattle sound at 2,000 RPM and was told essentially it's nothing or no problem found.

If people on this thread generally agree that the source of the rattle is the catalytic converter heatshield, can we get some photos? I'd like to take a wrench under my car and see if I cannot kill off that rattle for good.

 

Are you sure the rattle you hear isn't pinging? I have it too and am pretty sure the engine is just pinging very lightly. When I had my precats changed, the rear heat shield was missing a bolt, which the shop replaced. Still get the light rattle from 1700-2200 rpms that comes and goes. Been doing it since I got the car and in the nearly 60,000 miles I've driven it, the sound hasn't worsened so I'm not going to worry about it. Then again, my car is long out of warranty so I'm not willing to pay $$$ to fix a problem that seems to be so minor.

 

I'm not 100% if the rattle I hear is pinging or what the deal is. I could always run a tank of 91 with fuel system cleaner and see what (if anything) changes. Plus I been told a wide variety of causes in my quest to get the noise resolved.

I'm now afraid it will take piles of money and many weeks to get repaired, so I simply live with it.

 

I still have yet to figure out what the rattle is, but I haven't taken the car anywhere to get the issue looked at. I am so sick of dealing with little annoying issues with the Maxima, I honestly wish I never bought this car and hope to get rid of it soon. I think it's great how so many people seem to have this rattling issue based on what I've seen on maxima.org, but I have barely seen anyone who actually got it resolved. It makes me wonder how if it's such a common problem with these cars, why doesn't the dealership know how to fix it? The dealership is the very LAST place I will ever take a car to get something looked at again (unless of course it's under warranty), they really don't care if your issue is fixed or not, only if they get their $100/hour labor fee. At least that's the experience I had with Brenner Nissan in Mechanicsburg, PA (don't buy a car from them). /rant

 

I can understand the frustration that comes with purchasing a vehicle only to have minor problem after minor problem crop up. Adding to that the experience of a year long quest to resolve these minor problems which is only made worse by a dealership's inability to work with people instead of looking at people as walking pay days.

Then again, I start my VQ35DE and can easily blow by other cars when my right foot feels heavy. Sure what we have is not hand built and not the most reliable but honestly, if it was, would the car be much fun?

 

mine rattles like crazy its so loud and does it when im going slow not pushing on the gas that hard but if i were to really push gas down hard it doesnt do it at all! i for some reason think its the timing chain to doesnt sound like a heat shield is loose or anything its more of something when u give it gas and it rattles in side engine bay on drivers side. and ive driven next to muranos fx35 and cars that have the same vq35 motor and they all make the noise too! and my car does it when i start it. no matter if its cold or hot. sucks a$$ but i love my nissan :-/