I've been researching this starting problem for some time now. It started out as a temperature related problem, but has gotten worse. Problem is that when the key is turned to start the car, nothing happens and all of the dash lights go out. If I turn the key back and forth a few times, it will start. Sometimes I will move the shifter to "N" and it will start, but I'm not convinced that the neutral safety switch is the problem. I have replaced the starter(aftermarket), ignition switch(aftermarket) and starter relay. Starter is less than a year old. I have read that some people have greased the big starter gear and that fixed the problem. I have also read about the different types of starters; 10 and 11 teeth. Would the number of teeth be a major problem?? I may remove the starter and have it tested. Any other ideas???

Joe

 

Are you sure its not the neutral safety switch? or the gear selector thingiemabob? or that shifter bushing that wears out making you move the car back and forth before you can start it?

 

The car will eventually start after 2 - 3 times of turning the key back and forth in the ignition switch. Someone had told me to try starting the car in "N" and it always starts. Wierd....

 

Ok if you shift it up all the way past P and try starting it, does it start??

 

Haven't tried that, but I will next time I use the car.

 

Yes, please try that and post back with your results.

 

I tried starting the car while pushing up on the shifter while it was in "P". Didn't start. Tried "N"; didn't start. Third time doing nothing, it started. I'm starting to think it's the starter. Any ideas??

 

Ah, that brings back such memories... I chased the same problem for months, and finally figured it out. There's a slot in the ignition switch that fits into a little T shaped flange in the steering column. As these cars get older, they develop a little slop between the flange and the ignition switch, and sometimes turning the key doesn't quiiiiite make the ignition switch go far enough over. I solved it by putting a tiny piece of electrical tape in the slot on the switch, like this:
.

If you're having the problem frequently, you can also test by taking the ignition switch out of the column and using a screwdriver in the slot to start it. If it works every time, this is probably your problem.

Note, though, that someone in another thread thought it was simply a matter of cleaning the contacts inside the ignition switch. He may be right, but I replaced my ignition switch early in this process, and it didn't help, so I'm inclined to think not.

 

Everytime it won't start, the starter actually sounds like it's trying to engage the flywheel, but it's getting bound. By trying to start it 2 - 3 times may cause the starter gear to engage the flywheel. I don't understand why a new(rebuilt) starter would still do this??

 

Ok, I just removed the starter, had it tested at Advanced Auto and it spun just fine. Before reinstalling it, I applied a light coat of grease to the starter gear. Reassembled and it's still causing a problem. Also cleaned all cable connections!! I'm about to give up.

 

Don't give up man...get a used one from a JY that is a known working one and put it in....don't rely on these guys test machines.

 

I actually watched the starter being tested. I also helped the guy with it. Sometimes when trying to start the car and the starter sounds like it's binding, the engine sounds like it snaps backwards after the key is released.

 

ive heard of this problem before and i think someone tried using their spare key and it worked because the key he used all the time wore down so much that it wouldnt start the car

 

I tried that and it didn't work. Besides, if the key was worn down, it wouldn't turn at all, correct??

 

U try the P/N switch. U try searching haynes or FSM. U have them?

 

My next target is the P/N switch. Can that be jumpered out??

 

Just had the P/N safety switch replaced and that didn't fix the problem. What else is there?????

 

Ok going back and reading your original post, you say that wheny ou turn the key, all the dash lights go out?? Did you test the battery?? If the battery rulles out good, I would check the grounds and clean them.

 

I'm not totally convinced that it's the battery. When it starts, there is no hesitation or slow cranking. I will take a look at the negative battery cable where it connects to the block.

 

Car is back with the mechanic and he wants to replace the ignition key cylinder which sits behind the ignition switch that I replaced last year. He was playing around with it and noticed that he could start the car if he turned the key hard. So we'll see what happens....

 

PROBLEM IS FIXED!!!!! Replaced key cylinder!!! Started 3 times with 0 failures!!!!

 

haha sweet, I will remember this thread if I ever have this problem. What part of PA are you from?

 

So the key cylinder was the problem huh?? So you got a used one with a different key now?

 

nice

 

Near Valley Forge area.

 

Nope, Brand new with 2 new keys. Didn't want the same thing to happen with a used key cylinder!!!

 

Jobell--

How much did it run you? I've used tape to avoid having to do that, but if it's cheap enough I just might...

 

He charged me a little over $200 and it took him 4 hours to replace. If I remember correctly, I think the cylinder is held in place with a clamp and screwed down with screws that can only be tightened and not removed.

 

IIRC, the FSM said something about having to drill something out, which could have been the screws. That's why I've stuck with my electrical tape fix.

FWIW, I think this is the reason for a lot of our no-start problems.

 

Someone once told me that if you have alot of keys on your key chain, that extra weight will cause problems with the key cylinder.

 

I never thought of that, but it probably makes sense. I don't have janitor keys, but usually 3 or 4 and a knife of some kind...

 

Yeah, its a chore to remove but key cylinder is programed by locksmith using exsiting key

 

try turning the key one position away from you. Do you hear 3 chimes? After the third one turn the key to start the car. Does it fire up?

 

same problem I checked my Maf sensor, while I had everything out of the car I noticed the ground cable to the negative terminal was cut. I spliced and reconnected it but the car started and burnt electrical smell came from engine with smoke. Unplugged it and it seems ok. The main problem I found was the security light was red constantly I reset it from the advice of this forum by Turning the key to on wait 5 second then off repeat at least 5 times then started right up.