In plain terms, what exactly does it do? (e.g. benefits in daily driving and the normal "enthusiastic" driving)

Is it an absolute must? Does it help with traction?

Thanks.

 

It helps with traction. It wil transfer torque between the drive wheels when one loses traction. In an open differential, if one wheel loses traction, it spins, and the other wheel is stationary.

Just ask dmbmaxima88 or MattC how they like driving in the snow without one.

 

It definately helps with traction. Both on dry ground and slippery wet/snow conditions. LSD or HLSD is a very nice differential to have in any car.

As the Subaru commercial goes... When one wheel slips, the other wheel grips.

 

Fortunately, all AE's did have a VLSD. I like the feel, especially when in the wet with those crappy RE92's. While the tires suck and can spin like crazy, I can tell they are both being fed power.

 

I currently own two Maximas, one 98SE with VLSD and one 02SE with open diff. For normal everyday driving (dry/wet/snow & ice) I do not notice or care about the difference. In a straight line, dumping the clutch results in equal length rubber strips with either car, unless one side of the road/track has sand, water etc. On slippery surfaces (I live in Northern'ish Canada) I find that both wheels spin regardless of the type of differential, which is why I spend tons of money on good wet/snow/ice tires. They make orders of magnitude more traction than a LSD option.

LSD is great in autocross and canyon carving around hair-pin corners where the LSD provides extra traction when shooting out of the last part of a corner. The LSD will help equalize the wheel spin when applying power around a corner which could shave some seconds off a run. It doesn't eliminate wheel spin, only traction control attempts such feats. It is also nice when driving agressively on dry roads with scattered sand/dirt/gravel where it prevents one wheel from spinning out of control completely.

Remember that LSD may also increase drive train losses and increase the weight of the car.

 

I completely agree with everything said. My 96 SE leaves two equal length rubber strips when I launch aggressively. The only time I have problems is on wet surfaces that are either rutted or in wet turns.


Dave

 

Thanks for the input guys! It's truly appreciated.

I was asking because it seems a lot of people are waiting for the 2k2 6spd w/ HLSD here in the US and i wasn't so sure what the big deal was about.

It seems the 6spd's coming out in the US don't have LSD while those in Canada have Open or Viscous LSD coming out before the HLSD.

 

Well said.

For the first month I owned my '02 6spd. I was convinced it had VLSD. At this point in time I'm pretty sure it has an open differential but have yet to actually get something in writing from Nissan to confirm this.

The funny thing is, with the Maxima I now think it really doesn't matter what it has. Before when I thought about an 'open diff' I figured it was a real handicap because I thought back to the rear wheel drive cars I've owned with open differentials which would never spin both tires, whereas the Maxima seems to virtually always spin both tires.

Based on this I really can't imagine how anybody could tell the difference on a Maxima between VLSD and HLSD. I remember a while back someone posted an opinion that even when autocrossing a stopwatch would have a hard time determining the difference. I think the HLSD is a bit like 4x4's in that a very large percentage of the poeple with it never actually have any need for it, but they sure like to remind everybody they got it.

 

I think the reason the Max does relatively well with an open differential vs rwd drive car with an open differential is that the Maxima has about 60+% of it's weight over the drive wheels. The rwd cars typically have about 35% over the drive wheels.


Dave

 

Everyone with the open diff must be kidding yourselves!

I have 2k 5 speed and the torque steer is crazy until 4 gear....I would hope that the HLSD would fix this problem. I know if I was going to buy a 2k2 I would be wating in line with the rest of the knowledgable folks!!! I can only imagine how bad the torque steer is with the 255 hp and open diff.

 

Of course you'd know all this because you've spent months and months driving a non-HLSD 2k2 is all kinds of different conditions. Once you get your HLSD come find me (one of the unknowledgable folks) and we'll line them up side by side and see exactly what happens.

I spent a couple days with a VLSD '01 and now a couple months with a non-HLSD '02 and sure can't understand what all the fuss is about which is why I agreed so much with "maxed" comments above. While I can't say I like the feel of so much power in a FWD car (I'm used to RWD) I REALLY think people are deluding themselves if they think HLSD is going to make much, if any, difference. Thus I strongly suspect your "hope" is misplaced. People who are actually going to buy a '02 might well be interested in this point of view.

 

I have spent 40k in my 2k 5 speed and I can tell you that the torque steer is more than just an anoyance! Now Paul....if you want to kid yourself and say that it doesn't make a difference, that is fine, but if I was in the market to buy a new car I would have to wait until the hlsd came out to see if it truely fixes the problem.

I drive my car hard! Maybe that is my problem...but I think if you ask anyone else that owns a 2k 5 speed if they like the torque steer with the open differential...I think you will get some more comments like mine.

To answer your question....I have not driven the 2k2 of any kind...but if it is as fast as they say...it must be a scarey trip to fourth gear with the car wanting to throw you off the side of the road.

 

Yes, it's a little scary. I rode in Steve's (dmbmaxima88) 2k2 with open diff when he took me for a test drive to show me how the frankenintake performed. There was a lot of torque steer when shifting gears.

I like how I can apply power in a turn with the VLSD on my car. It has a lot less torque than the 2k2, but guess what, I out-launched Steve from a traffic light where the road was sandy! I had traction control turned off and just went, letting the VLSD do its job. He had traction and wheel-hop issues.

I also saw his 2k2 have some trouble getting up a snow-covered road. One wheel was stationary and I could hear the other one spinning. My car had made it without a problem.

 

First of all, if I sound somewhat hostile I appologise, but it's because I don't "kid" myself about things like this. If you knew anything about me or took one look around my garage you'd know that, obviously you don't/can't so you'll have to take my word for it, I ain't NO kid.

You guys are starting to make me think I don't have an 'open diff' because I certainly don't think my '02 is "a scarey trip to fourth gear" and couldn't see any difference (other than acceleration rate) compared to a VLSD '01. Maybe there's some difference between how a 2k drives compared to a 2k2 when it comes to torque steer, or maybe years of running 7 second qu.miles on 2 wheels (sometimes only 1) make me impervious to being scared by something that is as dead slow (relatively speaking) as a 2k2 Maxima.

I agree that if you're in the market and are able to wait around, the HLSD might be worthwhile, BUT what might settle this issue is what you'd think of a non-HLSD '02, maybe it wouldn't be the same as your 2k?

BTW, when I saw Phatguy moving his 2k1 VLSD around in my icy/snowy driveway one day I noticed him spinning only one wheel. Obviously I know why this would happen, but it does kinda make one stop and go "Hey whats up with that???".

 

I am not going to defend my experience or observations as that would be pointless over the net. I do have a couple of other points that may help in this debate. First off, my '98 with VLSD does exhibit torque steer. VLSD is slip sensing not torque sensing, so it doesn't help that much with everyday T.S. By the time it senses that one wheel is spinning significantly faster than the other it is too late, the torque mismatch will be felt at the steering wheel. The helical LSD in the new 02 SE's is torque sensing and MAY reduce torque steer somewhat better than the viscous system, but I doubt that it alone will eliminate it. It should help in the cases where one wheel suddenly breaks loose on sand or water. With my other high powered FWD cars it required suspension and engine mount mods/replacements to significantly reduce T.S.

Second, I have driven my 6spd hard and I have yet to have a "problem" with T.S. Yes it is there, but I'm used to it and it is not that bad. In fact it isn't all that much worse than my '98. My '93 Shelby IROC Daytona with only 225hp had twice the torque steer. It was a lighter car with less power steering override.

Finally, I've never met Steve, but I believe that my sister in her 160hp Altima Auto could out lauch Steve. I've seen some of the vids and Steve has to get used to the power of the '02. The gutless Altima has just enough power to hookup hard with minimal wheel spin, the max has too much if your not used to it. There isn't a 2WD LSD in the world that will help you launch faster if both wheels are spinning. Give Steve another month or two and he'll own you off the line. If not send him up here this summer and we'll give him some pointers.

Don't get me wrong, LSD's are great and I love them (especially on RWD & AWD), but they are not the "cure all" solutions that some people are looking for. If you really want to make a 255HP Maxima accelerate faster you would be better off spending your money on tires. If you want to get through an autocross circuit faster then spend money on suspension, tires and brakes. I you can get the HLSD for $300 then by all means get it, it does help, but it isn't the end of the world if you don't have it either and I doubt that it help you win many races against the Maximas with open diffs.

 

vlsd will not help the torque steer! I think the only thing that will fix the problem is the quaffe (sp?) diff. I am glad to hear that the hlsd is supposed to help with the T.S. problem, but like you said it might require enough spin that it wouldn't help in every day driving but if the road is wet or snow covered it will "kick in".

The torque steer is not as bad as some fwd cars I have been in....but when my car goes over 5k rpms (1-3 gear)the car is wanting to pull to the right pretty agressively.

This raises a point though....do you think the throttle by wire limits the amount of power to the wheel(s) above a certain rpm to combat this problem? I would think that the 30 extra horses would magnify the torque steer problem.

Maxed...your opinion was very thorough and raised some good points! I hope you are right about the HLSD...but like you said if it is not sensitive to notice the smallest amount of wheel spin then it will be useless for fixing the T.S. problem. I am not sure what the HLSD costs...but I would have to drive both during dry conditions to see if it is truley worth it. If I lived any further north it would be a must though!

 

ya i thought mine did too,. still no confirmation either way.

 

Once again, WELL SAID. Thank-you. But is anybody else listening???
Naaaa, HLSD is du bomb, it's going to cure all the problems a FWD car could possibly have and at the same time provide a better sex life :-)

 

I'm not listening but i, surely, am reading

Again, thanks for all the info! Now to finally decide if i should give up my auto for that sweet 6spd

 

I haven't found a HLSD equipped Max in my area yet, maybe Leadfoot will let me trash, err I mean take a spin with his at the mini-meet, but I have got about 9000 kms on my 6spd and I can definitely tell you that it does have a LSD, whether it's V or H, I would never know without cracking it open. There's plenty of traction. There is no 'scary ride' to 4th short of the nice thrust from acceleration. The car does not try to put me in the ditch at all. I have no problem throwing snow up at my mirrors when accelerating hard around corners so I'm sure the diff is working well.

I've read an article in Automobile magazine (Jan'02):

"There's no quick fix available for the Sentra SE-R Spec V, unfortunately. This car's advantage over all other Sentras is its Torsen-type front limited-slip differential. Although it helps put the power down, the Torsen corrupts the steering feel, with a too obvious inert phase while the differential redistributes power. Whatever is the opposite of fluid, that's the Sentra. You have to think hard when driving it hard and wait forever to settle the front end."

The only problem I can see with waiting for the HLSD is getting something that feels like what Automobile describes. I would truly hate that. There are few things on earth as dissatisfying as a bad corner.

Albert

 

IT's TRUE!! As soon as I got the Max home for the first time 2 days ago, my wife had this enexplicable urge to rip my clothes off and jump me!! I strongly suspect that wifey's ESP sensed that HLSD was installed!

I got better service at the Wendy's drive through than the 4th gen in front of me.

But I had to beat her back saying, "But hun, I have to break in my new Max and get some KM's on her, and you OTOH, are already er...., well going driving mow!"

AKRUS: You gonna let me trash your Franken-intakeinstalled? =:-)

 

Another reason you might be torque steering like crazy is because of your lower profile tires, larger wheels, and stock suspension. It's probably not the torque because my 4th gen makes as much torque as most modded 5th gens and I don't have a lot of problems. I noticed a lot more torque steer when I had my 17s with 235/45s on my 96 SE. Now I've got lightweight 16s with 215/55s. I get very minimal torque steer. The only time the car torque steers badly is when I floor it on an uneven surface or around a corner. With a lowered suspension, good shocks, and decent tires, you'd be amazed at how much more traction you can find. I can go around a slow DRY corner and floor it and I get minimal spin from the inside. When my car was bonestock, I would light the inside 15 up like there was no tommorrow.


Dave

 

Are you bringing your wife?

Albert

 

More data for your consideration. I'm trying to order an HLSD equipped Max. Will I notice the difference--who knows?

"The difference between a viscous and a helical limited-slip may seem like a minor detail, but in reality, it's night and day. Having driven at least one first-generation SE-R that had its stock viscous limited-slip replaced with a helical Qualife limited-slip, the difference is astonishing. Power can be applied much earlier in a corner, and the helical diff offers a self-steering effect similar to, but more natural than the Prelude SH's more complex ATTS system."

Source:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ar...01b_0401.shtml

Which brings up another question, "What's ATTS?"-----

"[The Prelude] uses ATTS, or Active Torque Transfer System, to help take corners with more stability and control than would normally be found in a front-wheel-drive sports coupe. ATTS is not a traction control system, which limits the power sent to a spinning wheel, but a drive-torque distribution system that takes torque from the inside wheel and transfers it to the outside wheel so it actually rotates faster when the car is in a turn. The faster-turning outside wheel helps the vehicle turn with greater stability."

Source:
http://www.auto.com/reviews/kc_081997_prelude.htm

 

Well, it snowed big time here in southern Ontario, and I am way happy I got HLSD.

My last cars had open diffs and there is a noticeable difference in terms of available traction /grip between the Max and the others.

 

I do not know yet, but come on up for $10 per burn out. You can judge.
I bought it for winter traction and out of corner control.

 

I did something very unique and innovative "for winter traction", I went out and got a set of real SNOW tires. Then to ensure traction didn't suffer for the rest of the year I got myself a set of 245/40x18 high perfromance summer tires.

I'm curious about how many HLSD owners are going to limp along on those stock RE-crap tires all year 'round convinced that the HLSD is going to save them???

 

That was my point exactly. Unfortunately, I came across as been anti-LSD, which I'm not. The problem was that people are expecting way too much from a simple system. IMHO, 90% of the time if one wheel is slipping then both wheels are slipping and LSD can't save you. Good specialized tires can make magnitudes more difference.
I bought dedicated winter tires and I can drive circles around high-end vehicles with traction control, AWD and 4x4 systems, because my two tires provide more grip than their four hard compound summer tires.

 

Completely agree with you. Acceleration is the least of my worries in the winter. Most importantly, for me, is the ability to stop and turn.

It's amazing how many people only consider acceleration. This is a major reason why you see just as many SUV's in the rhubarb as any other type of vehicle. SUV owners feel that they are invincible since they have 4wd. They don't realize how much that actually works against them once they try to stop/turn.

Albert