One of the guys here just installed the zex kit, it worked for a few passes and then it blew his intake seal out and bent the butter-fly. He's automatic. My question is how are you supposed to use nitrous? I thought you didn't arm it until you were in like 2 or 3 gear? He's was using nos right from the start ie the system was armed and he'd floor it, so the zex saw wot and fired. Shouldn't he wait until he's moving or something?

 

Usually you don't want your nitrous to activate until you reach between 3000-3500rpm's. I'm sure there are people out there that might have there Nitrous coming on at a lower or higher rpm then that, but 3000-3500 is a safe range for your nitrous to activate, as long as your using a reasonable shot. Not some 200hp shot if you know what I mean. Also alot of people with manuel transmissions might not even use the nitrous in first gear, because of tire spin. In his case, being an automatic He will probably not have to worry about traction loss as long as the car is already moving at a decent rate of speed before the Nitrous comes on. As far as the damage the nitrous did to your friends car, this usually will happen when your using a wet nitrous system on a dry intake manifold designed engine. It's called a "Nitrous backfire" & from what I know about how Zex kit's work, they are dry systems that only increase fuel deliver via the fuel injectors. So to me it is strange for that amount of damage to happen without this being a wet system since there would not be any fuel inside of the intake manifold. I would contact Zex & let them know what happened. Maybe your friend has the wire from the Zex kit going to the wrong wire on the TPS sensor or something like that, but I would deffinitly contact the manufacturer!!!

 

Has Steve had any luck since he had the problem. Maximus 101: His kit is a wet kit.The fuel should be atomizing so it should not have any chance to puddle at all.

 

Well if he is using a wet kit, then a "Nitrous backfire" is exactly what happened. The fuel fell out of syspension even though it came out of the fogger in a fine mist, because when it was activated at low RPM there wasn't enough intake draw "Vacuum" being created by the engine. I'm sure if he pulls the fogger out of the intake & places it into some kind of jar or anything that will keep the mixture from spraying all over the place it will look like the atomization is fine. He should'nt have this problem anymore as long as the nitrous comes on above 3000rpm's. But I would suggest finding a place to mount the fogger after the throttle body butterfly, not before. Remember the closer the wet system fogger is to the combustion chamer the better it works & safer it will be, hence (DIRECT PORT) so even though your only using 1 fogger that mixes both air & fuel together the same theory will apply the closer you place it before the intake runners start to become individual the better it will work. With a dry system the further away you place the fogger from the throttle body the better it will work. The ratio is for every 1ft the fogger is away from the thottle body the intake temp. is reduce 30 degrees so 3ft. would be 90 degrees cooler. He can probably make a spacer that will bolt in behind the throttle body to hold the fogger. When I was looking at my thottle body I notice a few places there are vacumm line that might work, but don't quote me on that. Another theory I have for a place that a wet system fogger might work well on a Max is at the other end of the intake manifold. If you look on the other side you will see a gold plug. In theory this might work ok since the incoming high pressure nitrous & fuel mixture will basically be slamming into the air coming into the engine through the intake which could create even better atomization & help reduce the chances of one cylinder getting too much & another not getting enough. Keep in mind this is just a theory I have. I haven't seen anyone do it, so I don't suggest you try it, but it doe's seem possible that it would work good. Tell you friend that he should still contact Zex, let them know what happened & get some input from them. But I think he'll be ok as long as he doesn't use it below 3000 rpm's. He might even want to consider wiring in a buttom or intermidiate toggle switch so he can control when it comes on & when it goe's off with his hand. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

 

like I said. It SHOULD be atomizing, but I have no experience with the reliability and performance of zex products, only NX here. Your explaination and idea is good and well thought out, the only question I have is why do all that when all the other auto n2o boys don't and have any problems with the suggested mounting location of the nozzle

 

Well that's kinda like saying why should I by the Cattmann Y-pipe when the budget or stillen doe's the same thing. I hear what your saying, but try to keep an open mind is what I was getting at. Plus I don't know of any auto guy's on here that use there nitrous when the car is under 1000 rpm's. So as I was saying, just make sure that the nitrous is used above 3000rpm's and it should work just fine. Also keep in mind that most manufacturers want there product's to be simple bolt on's. And they also want to keep there product's as universal as possible. That's why most of them only recommend certain places for there foggers. That doesn't mean that where they want you to put it is necassarily the best place?

 

I am auto and I spray the same time I hit the throttle, right out of the bucket and have no problem whatsoever with a wet kit.

Using nitrous at a low rpm is not a problem as long as its in 1st gear. Where the low rpm problem arises is when you hit the spray at low rpm in say 3rd gear. You have all that pressure building up in the cylinders and no place to go and kaboom.

When you spray in 1st gear the rpm goes up so fast that you are at 6k before you can blink, that is not what causes problems. Saying not to spray under 3k is an old wives tale.

Also NX is a proven wet kit (thats all they make) and I don't know of anyone who is running another wet kit at high HP and reported their success. I would stay away from the copycat designs.

Also listen to the manufacturer, especially the NX guys, they race and have tried it all and will give you the best advice on how to make the most HP safely out of your kit.

 

Obviously the difference here is having gone through the trial & error yourself or listening to others who have! But I do agree with Jime as far as the quality of NX product's they do make the best solenoids on the market. No need to worry about a NX solenoid sticking open on you....

Question for Jime?

Would you agree that the closer a wet system fogger is to the combustion chamber the better it works & safer it is? How about the tunability, is it more precise or not?

 

thanx for your input. so he can hit the zex off the line as long as the rpm are up? So like if held the brake and got the rpms up to like 2000 rpm or so and then launche and goes wot the zex would fire and he probably would n't have aproblem? also he can use the shot in first gear, and all the way down the strip.

 

You have to define fogger for me first. Fogger is a NOS trade name and applies to their wet nozzle and I have no experience with NOS other than their dry kit.

If you are talking about wet kits in general then everything I have read or tried shows that the best position is around 2-3 inches before the throttle body.

As far as tunabilty, NX does not need to be tuned you just put in the jets recommended by NX and you get the precise mix of nitrous/fuel for that engine which is determined by the stock WOT fuel pressure.

 

You have to realize I don't have any experience with a ZEX wet kit so what I am saying applies to my experience with NX.

Yes you can hit it of the line regardless of whether rpm is up or not, realize that it is not going to activate until you hit WOT anyway.

Yes you can spray all the way down the strip, even through the gears, which is what is great about an auto over a manual. You should have a tranny cooler and do the DR mod or VB mod so the trans shifts quicker though otherwise its hard on the clutches because of the slow shifts with higher HP.

 

Using any Nitrous system at low RPM's will cause premature engine failure... If Jime is so highly influenced by the manufacturer's recommendations then he would have read that even they recommend not to use it below a certain RPM to prevent engine failure. Most pro street vehicles will use Nitrous off the line, but remember that they are using mulitple staged high dollar sustems along a trans brake that allow there engines to spool to a higher RPM, kinda the same way an aftermarket stall convertor would allow you to increase your launch RPM. Most all of these vehicles leave the line at or above 3000 rpm's. Also keep in mind that these are full on race car's & are constantly being dissasembled & reassembled. I would say if you want to keep the fun factor involved then eliminating any possiblity that your vehicle might end up broken is the best route to take? One last thing to think about is when your nitrous comes on it comes on all at once. So it is very hard on your engine. The most reliable way to set up a nitrous system is too use a progressive nitrous controller so it comes on smooth & then peaks out to your pre-determined hp setting. Kind of the same way a supercharger or turbo works "Smoother power application". Not just "BAM" another 50hp all of a sudden. Sure the most important thing when using nitrous is to make sure you have enough fuel supply, but there are other things to factor in. Like cylinder pressure, cylinder temp. Ignition timing, all the way down to what's the tempature outside. I guess what I'm saying is I'm sure you don't want to have to rebuild you engine or in the worst case by a new one, so just be safe. I don't try to knock people down about advise they give, but I realize that I don't know everthing so I ask questions to accumulate my knowledge. Some people might understand what it is I'm asking or trying to find out & others may not even comprehend the question. So my second best advise to give you is go and buy a book on how nitrous works. There are a few good ones out there. Try to find this one I think it's written Joe Pettit it's called "Sport compact nitrous system's" or theres another one called "Everything you need to know about nitrous" You can get both of these books at Barnes & noble............

 

From a major nitrous manufacturer.

Q. How high must the RPM's before activating nitrous?
A. The RPM level is not as important as is the motors ability to rev freely when the nitrous is engaged, I.E. If the vehicle is in low gear, nitrous can be engaged at any time, but if the vehicle is in a higher gear moving at a slow speed when the nitrous is engaged the engine will detonate and damage will occur.

That is basically what I said and I stick by it.

Guys aren't interested in what pro street vehicles do, they are interested in their Maxima can do and that is precisely what advice I try to give.

Perhaps if you read those two books you wouldn't be emailing me asking how big of a shot you can run by injecting nitrous and allowing the stock ecu to compensate the required fuel. Now that is a disaster waiting to happen.

I try to give sound advice on here and don't BS anyone, what I say is what I have tried and have had success with and try to pass on to others. My record speaks for itself. A year or so ago many on this forum said wet kits are bad they will cause nitrous backfires only run dry kits etc. I have disproven that and many people now run NX and I believe it is the kit of choice by org members.

What you quoted on here a few days ago was the same old NOS propaganda that has been spouted off for years now because NOS couldn't design a workable wet system until they finally copied the NX design.

 

And you still didn't understand my question?

Basically if you understood how a computer works in a vehicle you would know that the computer adjust to pre-set map's & can compensate for air / fuel mixture based on the sensor's readings...

So if I break it down easy enough for you that even a child could understand my question it would go something like this...

If you use a small amount of nitrous (10 or 20hp) the computer will reconize the difference in air density & air tempature & can compensate for the additional fuel needed to create an optimal air/fuel mixture, you know that little thing called (STOICHIOMETRY)? You might want to consider learning about it, that's just my opinion ofcouse?
So how much nitrous would be needed to stay within the computers ability for fuel compensating. I guess you wouldn't understand the difference of how a vehicle performs at high altitude compared to at seal level so just forget it. I have already made my mind up about how lame most of the people are on this website. So just forget it, because obviously I'm on a different level of understanding performance then most!!!

So stick to passing on your basic knowledge to the other guy's you look at you as if your some kind of performance wizzard....

Anyways, I don't expect you to understand what my question is because your used to using a wet system, not DRY.

It's alittle easier when someone else has figured out for you what fuel & nitrous jet creates x amount of HP..........

 

Oh one other thing you should know!!!

If a wet system is the best way to go on a dry manifold design then why would they have spent all this time developing a EFI system? Puttz..........

 

I pass to your superior knowledge and experience. I understand now how stupid I am.

No more posts will be forthcoming, its a shame to be on this lower level but thats life.

 

See it's guy's like you & me that if we combined our knowledge instead of contradicting it, we could probably learn alot from eachother. I don't mean to sound so rude, but I hate when someone try's to tell me something won't work, when I already know that it doe's. I try to keep an open mind, but some people are so stuck in there way's that improvement is impossible. Don't you sometimes feel the same way, when someone tells you one thing, but you are positive your way works too?

 

so, where does your experience with maximas running n2o come from?

 

I think im gonna lean towards Jimes advice over anyone else about nitrous on these forums. Havent seen any trouble with the 150 shot he ran multiple times in his other max. Plus hes been around longer, more respect towards him. Youve been around for what, a few weeks. Sorry.

 

Guy's get it through your heads!!!
Maxima's are not considered race cars, at best you can called the a sport sedan, not even a luxury car?
If you want to see some race cars go to my company's website www.dubtechnik.com & see what real car's are all about. When you guy's can say that you've built car's ranging from 8sec. all motor small block Dodge demon's to Audi A8's then and only then will you earn anyone's respect. And as far as how long I've been a been on this website doe's that really have anything to do with automotive knowledge? If that's what you think then best of luck to ya!!!!!!!!!

 

Well I trust someone thats been around longer and PROVEN his knowledge, not just walking in the first week trying to act like their better than everyone knowing everything. Maybe you're knowledge works well on other cars, but Ill take Jime's knowledge to use on my maxima any day.

I know maximas arent considered race cars, they arent stripped down to the frame and running on slicks, but for a family sedan, they're pretty ****ing fast.

 

And Audi A8's are?

Ok...so you've done that. You're not earning my respect. I guess you wasted your time.

Also...do you have any experience with Maxima's or even the VQ30DE...or even the VQ at all for that matter? I doubt you do...so why don't you leave the people who have the experience do the talking. The knowledge of how to build an 8 sec. Dodge Demon really means jack squat when talking about the VQ...

 

I never came in here saying I know everything or I'm better then anyone!!! But maybe when someone try's to school you on something your extremely more familiar with you'll understand my frustration. Try to remember at one time or another everyone on this website was a (NOOBIE), but that didn't mean they didn't know what's up. Who knows maybe they had their Max hooked up long before any of you even bought your's but they just decided to try and find more people like him on the web that he could ask some questions too or maybe even give some advise. I know I'm fighting a losing battle here because Jime has all of your respect because his knowledge is greater then most & he has posted time slip's. But when I go to the track I'd rather take a car that will actually go down the track fast enough for the guy's behind me to have a chance to race. That does'nt mean my maxima is a dog or anything, but the max is for making people who think there car is hot $hit look stupid on the street not for making you look stupid at the track!!! Maybe I would give more respect to someone who's Max is running in the 13's on all motor the low 13's or into the 12's with squeeze? I just don't see the difficulty in using nitrous on any car for that matter. It's a bolt on application & is pretty much fool proof unless your a moron? That's why you always see those acticles where the car is standing over his car & the add reads "And an hour & a half later I had 150 extra horsepower" Don't get me wrong, most people wouldn't have the ball$ to try squeezing 150hp shot of Nitrous on there rides without some internal engine work, or some kind of way to control the ignition timing, but lets not forget that our VQ engine was rated the #1 most reliable V6 on the market so you can pretty much feel comfortable adding performance mod's to it. I really take it to heart when someone tells me I'm a know it all, because I have never referred to myself as knowing it all... But I do know enough to throw a flag up when ever someone try's to bull$hit me or give me advise that is incorrect, or not the full story!!! So you guy's can just keep on $uckin Jimes ***** while I'm out in my all motor auto max spanking all you stick boy's in your fifth gen's. I'd feel sorry to run into one of you on the street & have to put a schilacking down on you! Without the nitrous... I guess that's what it would take to earn alittle respect on this website?

 

Are you done yet?

 

Wanna find out?

 

Yes.

Nitrous is foolproof huh?...what an idiot...

And for your information, there are all-motor Maxima's in the 13's. And there are some in the 12's with "squeeze"...JIME IS ONE OF THEM.

 

Tatanko

Why don't you tatank a hike clown. Ofcourse it's full proof if you know how it works? Read alittle. Oh by the way, the all motor cars get my respect, but you don't!!!

 

Please, oh please.

 

This is called Misinformation and please stop spreading this around. You are completely incorrect and are the reason why Internet message boards are breeding grounds for automotive disaster.

What your talking about (air fuel ratio correction) is correct however your missing one vital point. That correction only happens at part throttle When you go wide open throttle your computer goes into open-loop mode. This means that it ignores the IAT and O2 sensors completely and runs on a pre-defined map in the computer. It will NOT correct for ANY amount of nitrous at all in any way shape or form because it's not relying on any sensors for any input (except Knock to pull timing). You goto WOT it goes to a pre-defined map. You introduce something that changes the air-fuel ratio and you will either make the car run slow or blow up the motor. Period end of story.

If you were to spray a 20hp shot (dry) you would do nothing but lean the car out, likely not blowing it up as 20hp over 6 cylinders would not be enough however. The computer would make no compensation for it. Even if this were done at part throttle, the only sensor that would see the change is an O2 sensor and they can only make very small adjustments to the air/fuel ratio. This is demonstrated by cars that pass emissions testing with blown O2 sensors (which is all done at part throttle) which is common though they do have more emissions then normal (running rich). A stoichiometric air fuel ratio of 14.7 is only maintained at idle. At WOT your car is running much richer at 13.0:1 - 13.5:1 which is why a 20hp shot would not likely blow up your motor.

You need to stick to not posting in threads because you have clearly demonstrated you have limited knowledge about nitrous (computer compensating for 20hp shot with no fuel enrichment, are you kidding?) I taught Jime about nitrous in the beginning and he now knows more than I do and teaches me a few things here and there.

He maximized a dry kit and ran a faster time than most with that, but moved to a wet kit because of it's huge performance advantages (as demonstrated on his car).

When it comes to Maximas and nitrous there is no teacher like experience and experience has taught us that nobody is running faster than 12.1 on a nitrous powered Maxima.

 

If you think it's fool (not full, you dolt) proof then you're an idiot. I'll let DSMJim do the explaining, he said it best. And I don't care if I get your respect, I don't want it.

Now...before this thread dies, why don't we get back on topic...