Well I've been running nitrous for about a year and a half now. My setup is a ZEX wet kit with 75 shot, complete with bottle heater, and +1 step plugs. I've been saving money up for mods and contemplating what I want to do for more speed. I think, as opposed to going for a turbo or s/c, I want to stick to nitrous. I think it would be really cool to do a 2-Stage Direct Port Setup with a 50 shot in the first stage and maybe a 125 shot (50+75) for the second stage. To go along with that I'd need to get the upgraded fuel pump and probably +2 step colder plugs.

I haven't heard too much about direct port setups in this forum but i saw one recently that was kinda interesting

http://www.forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=432536

I've started looking at the available setups to run 2-stage. NOS sells direct port pro fogger kits for 4cyl, inline 6, and v-8. The only 2-stage kits i saw advertised were pro fogger kits for v8s that say they were for 150-750 hp, but is there any reason you can't just change the jets for smaller shots? Either way those kits look like they're for more serious drag cars lol. Hopefully there are better options than that. I know the author of the thread listed above said to make his direct port kit he began with a 4cyl kit and built on it from there. Could a inline 6 kit be used on our v6s? I don't see why not but maybe I'm overlooking something obvious.

Anyways, i'm interested to see if anyone has any experience with 2-stage systems, either in their maxima or other cars and also what types of upgrades people have specifically used in terms of fuel delivery, ignition and tuning. Tuning is something I do not know enough about yet, and any input as to widebands, or other tuning units would be appreciated. Keep in mind, I'm considering doing this but looking for the needed info before I go out and do it. Hopefully I'm on the right track. Thanks.

 

Brad, I've been using the dual-stage NX EFI kit all this year - dual nozzles and pairs of solenoids, along with a Walbro 255lph and AERO FPR, with some success. ( 13.61 in the 1/4). This gives you the possibility of 150-shot plus 150-shot, if you're suicidal, but what is the advantage of the fogger kits over the nozzle kits??? I saw the thread you linked to, and am impressed with the installation, but is there some known advantage over the nozzles??

I keep the fuel pressure at 50psi, and use (-1)-step or (-2)-step copper/steel plugs, and my second engine seems fine with that at 50-shot plus 75-shot. Any reasons for the foggers?? If there is, sign me up. I'll get nozzles installed this week!

 

if i was running a 125+ shot i would prefer to run direct port simply to ensure equal distribution of nitrous/fuel to each cylinder as opposed to risking saturating the cylinders closest to the intake and running lean on the others.. i know i haven't heard any horror stories of this in Maxima's but I'd still feel safer with direct port.

i'm not sure there are too many direct port dual stage kits made for v6 engines as i look at websites here, but i'm sure that an inline 6 or v8 kit could be adapted.

 

I would look into running some race fuel. Around 98-100 octane.

 

Do you have any web links showing these fogger setups???? I wouldn't think there was any real difference between in-line and V6 motors but more information would be good...

The more I think about it, a nitrous nozzle sprays continuously when activated, and the mixture is pulled into the combustion chamber when the intake valve is opened. All cylinders take turns drawing from the common plenum of the manifold.

With a fogger, do they spray all the time and just have the spray pulled into the combustion chamber when the intake valve is opened? If so, there might be a lot of spray building up in the port above the intake valve for the time between intake cycles..... Each intake runner would build up a charge from the fogger, right??? The spray is constant regardless of RPM, so one would have to be careful about when (RPMs) the fogger is turned on, just like the nozzle spray. Hummm - this gets complicated...

 

this was a thought i had that indirectly lead me to think of another option for a 2-stage nitrous setup. A nitrous controller unit can be used to regulate the pulsing of nozzles and you can set the controller unit to pulse a 50 shot in say 1st gear and then your larger shot 100+ or whatever you want say from second gear on up once you have better traction. Again a nitrous controller unit is something I know entirely too little about.. maybe someone can step in and help me out with a couple things. Basically what i'm thinking at this point as far as 2-stage options

1. Use a 2-stage dual nozzle setup such as the NX 2-stage kit greymaxima uses. Benefits of this kit are simplicity and cost-effectiveness, but I am very partial to making a direct port setup.

2. Use a 2-stage N.O.S. Pro Fogger setup. Would either have to modify a inline-6 or v8 kit. This would be nice, but i'm sure its more expensive than other options. Peace of mind of using a fully developed and tested 2-stage direct port kit.. so I can blow up my engine with the N.O.S. logo in my trunk lol.

3. Custom build a direct port setup. Purchase 6 nitrous/fuel nozzles, go to Performance Parts Plus and have them cut and tip all the necessary steel woven nitrous line, get a distributor box and nitrous controler unit. Following sleepermax's steps drill and weld the nozzles into the manifold and then run 2-stages of whatever I want using the varying pulses.

 

Brad, you could hurt yourself by thinking this hard! There are a couple more options you can think about.

1. The NX Maximizer nitrous controller, which is programmable to increase spray with time. I know that Jime has used this unit with some success (there's an understatement). Up to a 200-shot, I think, but with a single nozzle.

2. Build the modified manifold with spray nozzles over the ports that you mentioned, then look for a way to syncronize the nozzle spray with the port's fuel injector timing. By syncing the nozzle spray to the existing fuel injector, you won't have spray building up in the intake runners, and by somehow varying the duration of the nozzle spray, you can vary the "shot".

3. Modify the manifold as above, but use NX Shark nozzles and existing lines connected to a one-line-in-to-six-lines-out manifold for both N2O and fuel. This way you can use NX jets to set the shot for each. And you can paint over the NX and letter them N.O.S. Sorry.... Actually, the nozzles could work...... Hummmm.. At least you could be sure of nitrous-fuel distriibution, but is the conventional way any worse? or still better?

Actually, I'm seriously considering installing a third NX stage to add more HP at the last 1/4 of the strip. I want another switchable nitrous-kick ready if I need it.

I have my first-stage spray connected to the engine WOT switch, enabled when the blanket heater power in the trunk is turned on. The second stage is also controlled the same way, except that I built a small shallow electrical box with four normally-open P.B. switches wired in parallel mounted on the floor for my left foot, so I can use stage-two at any point in the run by stomping on the box. Works really well for me, and lets me focus on driving with my hands. Now where to put the third switch ?????

 

yeah. i've been doing some more online shopping and i think a progressive nitrous controller unit is something i'm going to have to have! N.O.S. and NX both offer one.. N.O.S.'s offers a much greater degree of precision, however its also like twice as expensive haha.. i think i could get by more than just fine with the NX controller unit.

Now all i'm debating is how to go about setting up direct port. I can either peice together all the nozzles, bent steel line, fittings, and a 1 to 6 distributor, and a timing retard box, and stick with my ZEX solenoid and bottle.. or just get a whole new kit. At this point thats up in the air.

 

You can hook up a dual stage to work as a 3 stage. Run 1st stage as say a 50 then the second as a 100 but without the 1st stage and then both together for a 3rd stage. Lots of options really.

I think if you look closely you will see that they are very close in price, the Maximizer retails for $819 unless you are looking at one of their earlier models which are no longer made but still advertised. The NOS unit is similarly priced. Street price is as low as approx $600 for either one.

As far as precision the Maximizer can be programmed to go on and off at any RPM, any nitrous percentage or time as well you can program each gear separately (NOS doesn't do this). Plus it integrates with an optional wideband to shut off the system at any preset A/F level. (Jime proof)

PS I am also prejudice cuz I own one.

 

Jime - wow, I didn't think of that! I could set that up pretty easily, I think. Right now, I launch on 50-shot and engage an extra 75-shot with the floor switch. But if I do the three-way, and adjust shots like you said, then I can launch on 50, jump to 100 in second gear, and go to 150-shot once into third.

Is this just re-inventing the Maximizer with extra parts???

I didn't realize the Maximizer could change shots depending on the gear you're in . Guess I need to download specs and read them. Thanks for the ideas...

Brad, plz excuse the thread hijack - this happens when new ideas hit this forum, though. I couldn't find any references to controllers for the Fogger. It looks like the Fogger is either ON or OFF, and I really like two-stage nitrous at this point.

 

Ah, I was looking at a much simpler NX progressive controller then..

Here's the NX one i was looking at - retail at 327$
http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/MC_Progressive.htm

Here's the N.O.S. one - retail at 655$
http://streetfighters-usa.com/store/...ontroller.html

To my knowledge neither of these units allows for setting the level of nitrous based on the gear you are in, but i don't particularly care. I'd be more interested in just tuning them based on my runs at the track.. adjusting %/time until i have a nice linear or curvelike (however it works out) increase in nitrous without really breaking my tires loose too much.. basically i want to tune it to the maximum nitrous potential through a run without too much wheelspin.

Also, Jime. Juding by the pics of your interior in the nitrous setup sticky, i'm guessing you used SAFCII for all your timing issues. I'm debating what to use to retard the timing. A "timing retard box" that can be programmed for multiple different settings is like 100 bucks which i'm assuming is a lot cheaper than SAFC. Although, the SAFC can be adjusted along a curve.. this seems like it would be more beneficial.. nitrous increasing in a curve, timing being adjusted in a curve..

 

Here is the Maximizer. http://www.fjoracing.com/products/Maximizer2/

Brad I have never had the ability to adjust timing only a/f with the S-AFCII.

What I have done for the timing issue is to use 114 unleaded race fuel to keep the detonation away and it has worked quite well.

Now I have the Emanage Ultimate and hopefully it will be able to advance and retard as well as remove the limiter when the firmware is updated. Thats what I will be using in my 4th Gen 3.5 setup.

 

don't mind at all lol. the more the merrier as ideas go back and forth i think. that three-way setup sounds sweet too.

 

i've just been following the threads in which people talk about the things they are trying out with their Emanage Ultimate. if it can be used for these types of timing issues it would be really sweet! keep us updated!

 

What's In My Gas ??

Speaking of race gas - I just swapped my 1-step colder NGKs out for 2-step-colder NGKs, getting ready for tomorrow at Kansas City's test-n-tune. The replaced plugs are about three weeks old, and up to now, they have had a greenish coating on the steel ground electrode and the insulators were bone-white.

Last Friday I went to play at K.C and put in about 50% 104-octane race gas at the track and then parked in the pits. The plugs looked the same after the first pass (13.61 ET) so I left them alone while making 3 more passes before driving 90 miles to get home.

The plugs I just took out showed no damage from the 125-shot workout, but they were coated with an orange-colored powder, ground and insulator both. How weird is this? Is it possible the 104 octane track gas has additives that leave these deposits?

I think the first pass was probably on the original 91-octane I drove there with, and the race gas got mixed in after the first or second pass. I then drove out the remaining gas before refilling yesterday with 91 octane - our usual high-test gas hereabout.

Should I use more track gas, or skip it? I have made about six full-power runs to over 100 MPH on the highway or on-ramps, using the 125-shot combo, with no sign of any damage or deposits with the plugs. One half-tank of track 104 added, and I see lots of orange powder all over six plugs.


WTF ??

 

Some fuels are "dirtyer" then other. VP is the cleanest that I know of.
I havn't used sunco but I've read they leave spots on the insolator that is sometimes mistaken as detonation.

How did your 2 step colder ones look?

 

Wow - this goes back a ways - the KCIR track gas is Sunoco, and has left yellow fuzz on the plugs before. On my next visit, I used 91 octane and made a 13.9 and 13.6 ET pass, then upped the jets to 50 + 125 shot (was trying for 100-shot -used the wrong jets) and melted the engine exhaust valves - again. I have the car back and running well now. I can't find any 114 octane unleaded around here - just 104 from a barrel.....

There's always next spring....