bad day at the track
04-28-2008, 10:47 AM
#42
04-29-2008, 10:03 AM
#43
it's a sb 350 in my truck, I am not going to spray the maxima again till I build another motor for the truck. I can not take a chance on having both of my vehicle's down.
so I am just going to work on improving n/a times for now
so I am just going to work on improving n/a times for now
04-29-2008, 09:12 PM
#44
05-25-2008, 10:18 PM
#45
Well I sprayed the maxima tonight and everything worked great and hit really hard. I would instantly hit the rev limiter in 1st and spin all of 2nd. so I am guessing the problem all this time was nitrous fill
I did have 1 problem though, I ran a g37 to 125mph and could not pull him in. due to my lack of traction he would pull a car or 2 and continue to hold it well into the triple digits
next week I will be armed with my DR's
I did have 1 problem though, I ran a g37 to 125mph and could not pull him in. due to my lack of traction he would pull a car or 2 and continue to hold it well into the triple digits
next week I will be armed with my DR's
05-26-2008, 07:18 AM
#46
Well I sprayed the maxima tonight and everything worked great and hit really hard. I would instantly hit the rev limiter in 1st and spin all of 2nd. so I am guessing the problem all this time was nitrous fill
I did have 1 problem though, I ran a g37 to 125mph and could not pull him in. due to my lack of traction he would pull a car or 2 and continue to hold it well into the triple digits
next week I will be armed with my DR's
I did have 1 problem though, I ran a g37 to 125mph and could not pull him in. due to my lack of traction he would pull a car or 2 and continue to hold it well into the triple digits
next week I will be armed with my DR's
Glad things are working right for you.
05-26-2008, 08:25 AM
#47
I changed the program on the controller to spray 100% from 3500-6500rpms in every gear. I am either going to change it to in 2nd, 3rd and 4th or ramp it from 50% starting at 3500rpms ramping to 100% at 4000rpms
I can't wait going to get a wheel alignment then hit the track in a week or 2
Last edited by t6378tp; 05-26-2008 at 08:31 AM.
05-26-2008, 01:04 PM
#48
"Will a witness please step forward"
Very very close. That g37s was fast
I wouldnt even mess with the controller... leave it the same & throw on the DR's = Traction ftw.... You know that cobra wants a rematch, be ready
I wouldnt even mess with the controller... leave it the same & throw on the DR's = Traction ftw.... You know that cobra wants a rematch, be ready
05-27-2008, 07:23 AM
#49
I would say around 15sec or so
I changed the program on the controller to spray 100% from 3500-6500rpms in every gear. I am either going to change it to in 2nd, 3rd and 4th or ramp it from 50% starting at 3500rpms ramping to 100% at 4000rpms
I can't wait going to get a wheel alignment then hit the track in a week or 2
I changed the program on the controller to spray 100% from 3500-6500rpms in every gear. I am either going to change it to in 2nd, 3rd and 4th or ramp it from 50% starting at 3500rpms ramping to 100% at 4000rpms
I can't wait going to get a wheel alignment then hit the track in a week or 2
So you are racing the Maxima on street tires? I am really interested what you think of the controller when it's pulsing.
05-27-2008, 12:39 PM
#50
when I hit the track it will be with DR's but from what I see at 100shot @ 3500rpms in 1st gear on street tires = no traction.
I since I know everything is working now, I am going to start playing with different settings and report back with the results
05-27-2008, 12:50 PM
#52
Yeah, even with slicks, it's tough to hook up in 1st gear at all. I still haven't gotten any kind of progressive controller myself though. With drag radials, you will probably have to launch with about 25% of the 100 shot and ramp it up smoothly. You might be able to spray the full 100 shot in the top of 1st gear with the drag radials. It's about border line I think.
05-29-2008, 10:00 AM
#53
I'd stop having your bottle filled at that place...
shops don't just get bad juice from their wholesales.. they do it themselves. I'm going to bet they're mixing other stuff in- nitrogen or argon or something that's cheaper than N20 so they make more profit on each fill. again, you can't just inject bad stuff into the tank at 1000+psi. you just can't do it. you gotta have some MAJOR compressor equipment to pump those kinds of pressures into something.. race shops basically only have a large tank and a pressure regulator and a fill valve. they open the valve to fill the tank and shut it off when it's full. they don't pump anything anywhere.
cliff's notes on that: the bad gas was intentionally put there by the shop.
another thing with the nitrous.. as long as there's liquid in the tank, you'll be able to make the same pressures. the more liquid in there, the faster it will evaporate though- and the more that will come out of the hose when you crack it open with no restrictors.
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/i...r_Pressure.GIF
Also note that 36*C is the critical point of N20. that means it only exists as gas above that. below that point, there will always be a small amount of liquid in the bottom of the tank, not matter what temp or pressure. above 36*C, (97*F), it's just a very dense gas with no liquid in the bottom of the tank. the hotter you get the tank above 97F, the higher the pressure. below that, the pressure will only increase marginally with an increase in temp, because there's a liquid phase in the bottom of the tank that's much more dense than the gas.
....... but enough chemistry. the jist of the matter is you got crap gas from the last place you bought it.
And no, NOBODY mixes air or anything else into the bottle as you're filling. that would be incredibly stupid.. you're building a bomb at that point, not a tank of fuel.
05-29-2008, 11:10 AM
#54
Soon as you mentioned the lack of freezing temps when you purged the tank, I knew you bad a bad fill.
I'd stop having your bottle filled at that place...
shops don't just get bad juice from their wholesales.. they do it themselves. I'm going to bet they're mixing other stuff in- nitrogen or argon or something that's cheaper than N20 so they make more profit on each fill. again, you can't just inject bad stuff into the tank at 1000+psi. you just can't do it. you gotta have some MAJOR compressor equipment to pump those kinds of pressures into something.. race shops basically only have a large tank and a pressure regulator and a fill valve. they open the valve to fill the tank and shut it off when it's full. they don't pump anything anywhere.
cliff's notes on that: the bad gas was intentionally put there by the shop.
another thing with the nitrous.. as long as there's liquid in the tank, you'll be able to make the same pressures. the more liquid in there, the faster it will evaporate though- and the more that will come out of the hose when you crack it open with no restrictors.
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/i...r_Pressure.GIF
Also note that 36*C is the critical point of N20. that means it only exists as gas above that. below that point, there will always be a small amount of liquid in the bottom of the tank, not matter what temp or pressure. above 36*C, (97*F), it's just a very dense gas with no liquid in the bottom of the tank. the hotter you get the tank above 97F, the higher the pressure. below that, the pressure will only increase marginally with an increase in temp, because there's a liquid phase in the bottom of the tank that's much more dense than the gas.
....... but enough chemistry. the jist of the matter is you got crap gas from the last place you bought it.
And no, NOBODY mixes air or anything else into the bottle as you're filling. that would be incredibly stupid.. you're building a bomb at that point, not a tank of fuel.
I'd stop having your bottle filled at that place...
shops don't just get bad juice from their wholesales.. they do it themselves. I'm going to bet they're mixing other stuff in- nitrogen or argon or something that's cheaper than N20 so they make more profit on each fill. again, you can't just inject bad stuff into the tank at 1000+psi. you just can't do it. you gotta have some MAJOR compressor equipment to pump those kinds of pressures into something.. race shops basically only have a large tank and a pressure regulator and a fill valve. they open the valve to fill the tank and shut it off when it's full. they don't pump anything anywhere.
cliff's notes on that: the bad gas was intentionally put there by the shop.
another thing with the nitrous.. as long as there's liquid in the tank, you'll be able to make the same pressures. the more liquid in there, the faster it will evaporate though- and the more that will come out of the hose when you crack it open with no restrictors.
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/i...r_Pressure.GIF
Also note that 36*C is the critical point of N20. that means it only exists as gas above that. below that point, there will always be a small amount of liquid in the bottom of the tank, not matter what temp or pressure. above 36*C, (97*F), it's just a very dense gas with no liquid in the bottom of the tank. the hotter you get the tank above 97F, the higher the pressure. below that, the pressure will only increase marginally with an increase in temp, because there's a liquid phase in the bottom of the tank that's much more dense than the gas.
....... but enough chemistry. the jist of the matter is you got crap gas from the last place you bought it.
And no, NOBODY mixes air or anything else into the bottle as you're filling. that would be incredibly stupid.. you're building a bomb at that point, not a tank of fuel.
Thankyou.
05-29-2008, 01:45 PM
#55
Soon as you mentioned the lack of freezing temps when you purged the tank, I knew you bad a bad fill.
I'd stop having your bottle filled at that place...
shops don't just get bad juice from their wholesales.. they do it themselves. I'm going to bet they're mixing other stuff in- nitrogen or argon or something that's cheaper than N20 so they make more profit on each fill. again, you can't just inject bad stuff into the tank at 1000+psi. you just can't do it. you gotta have some MAJOR compressor equipment to pump those kinds of pressures into something.. race shops basically only have a large tank and a pressure regulator and a fill valve. they open the valve to fill the tank and shut it off when it's full. they don't pump anything anywhere.
I'd stop having your bottle filled at that place...
shops don't just get bad juice from their wholesales.. they do it themselves. I'm going to bet they're mixing other stuff in- nitrogen or argon or something that's cheaper than N20 so they make more profit on each fill. again, you can't just inject bad stuff into the tank at 1000+psi. you just can't do it. you gotta have some MAJOR compressor equipment to pump those kinds of pressures into something.. race shops basically only have a large tank and a pressure regulator and a fill valve. they open the valve to fill the tank and shut it off when it's full. they don't pump anything anywhere.
maybe it's time to go up there and ask some questions
05-29-2008, 04:39 PM
#56
it's funny you say that cause they do have a pump, I mean you can hear it when they are filling the tank but the only thing is I have been getting my bottle filled there for about 2years now and this is the 1st time I had this problem.
maybe it's time to go up there and ask some questions
maybe it's time to go up there and ask some questions
Nitrous filling stations often use a high-pressure pump to fill tanks, if they don't have a freezer handy. The bottles get very hot during the process, but they will weight them before charging you... It works best if they freeze the bottle first, then fill it - using a pump if necessary.
05-29-2008, 05:16 PM
#57
Speaking from extensive experience:
Nitrous filling stations often use a high-pressure pump to fill tanks, if they don't have a freezer handy. The bottles get very hot during the process, but they will weight them before charging you... It works best if they freeze the bottle first, then fill it - using a pump if necessary.
Nitrous filling stations often use a high-pressure pump to fill tanks, if they don't have a freezer handy. The bottles get very hot during the process, but they will weight them before charging you... It works best if they freeze the bottle first, then fill it - using a pump if necessary.
but I do plan on chilling the bottle for now on
05-29-2008, 07:29 PM
#58
He offered to sell me their entire refilling station for $400, but I convinced a local VP Racing Fuels distributor/machine-shop that nitrous would be a good addition to their line. Works better for me and the other racing customers he services..
05-29-2008, 08:48 PM
#59
easy way around that is to stuff as much of the tank as you can in a bucket of ice water. keeps it nice and cool while filling.
just like you do the opposite when filling freon in your A/C system. submerge the can in hot water and the process goes muuuuuch faster.
all the places I've seen here filling bottles don't use pumps... just fill off the large tank by equilibrium. open the bottle and let it sit.. doesn't take but a couple minutes. :shrug:
just like you do the opposite when filling freon in your A/C system. submerge the can in hot water and the process goes muuuuuch faster.
all the places I've seen here filling bottles don't use pumps... just fill off the large tank by equilibrium. open the bottle and let it sit.. doesn't take but a couple minutes. :shrug:
05-30-2008, 10:54 AM
#60
Kind of like hooking up an IV, eh? That's gotta be better than the pump..
.
06-19-2008, 08:06 AM
#61
Just a followup on nitrous pumps - this is on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...m350071155413&
There are still pumping stations being sold...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...m350071155413&
There are still pumping stations being sold...
06-20-2008, 01:54 PM
#62
Well I have been having a few problems with the car. My clutch pedal assembly broke and the car would not go into gear. I have it all fixed now and should be hitting the track next week. hopefully my nitrous kit will not get shy on me and I'll grab 12sec slip or atleast a new pb
06-20-2008, 02:16 PM
#63
Well I have been having a few problems with the car. My clutch pedal assembly broke and the car would not go into gear. I have it all fixed now and should be hitting the track next week. hopefully my nitrous kit will not get shy on me and I'll grab 12sec slip or atleast a new pb
It always amazes me how something that seems so simple - like a nitrous install - can get so complicated. While installing a WOT switch on my Pathy TB, I discovered that I could only open the throttle plate about 3/4 of the way - ever since I first started the 3.5 !! I had to rework the cable stops and their mounting plate so I can get the throttle open all the way - and yes, it does run better - I checked that last night.
Logged a couple of highway runs for luck, and to check A/F again. Go gettem.
06-20-2008, 08:42 PM
#64
Well, this evening I got stuff installed and the first nitrous stage installed and wired. Set the jets at a 35-shot - figured this can't go too far wrong, so I went for a ride - just me and the BFG DRs. Daymn. This engine does like its nitrous. The low-end launch torque is back, and when it goes "on the pipe" at 4K, the tires bust loose again in 1st and second - third took me to 100 MPH PDQ ..
I'm used to nitrous, so I can say the 3.5 makes a lot more out of a 35-shot than a 3.0 ever did.
I'm used to nitrous, so I can say the 3.5 makes a lot more out of a 35-shot than a 3.0 ever did.
06-21-2008, 04:28 AM
#65
Well, this evening I got stuff installed and the first nitrous stage installed and wired. Set the jets at a 35-shot - figured this can't go too far wrong, so I went for a ride - just me and the BFG DRs. Daymn. This engine does like its nitrous. The low-end launch torque is back, and when it goes "on the pipe" at 4K, the tires bust loose again in 1st and second - third took me to 100 MPH PDQ ..
I'm used to nitrous, so I can say the 3.5 makes a lot more out of a 35-shot than a 3.0 ever did.
I'm used to nitrous, so I can say the 3.5 makes a lot more out of a 35-shot than a 3.0 ever did.
and on the hp side of things if I remember correctly you put down around 220fwhp and the avg 3.0 puts down around 170-180fwhp so you'll need to spray around a 50-65shot
so just think what a 100shot on a 3.5 will do
those poor BFR's don't stand a chance
06-21-2008, 08:26 PM
#68
yeah, you figure the 3.5 on average has about 50ft lbs of tq than the 3.0 then add a 35shot that about the same tq as a 65shot on a 3.0
and on the hp side of things if I remember correctly you put down around 220fwhp and the avg 3.0 puts down around 170-180fwhp so you'll need to spray around a 50-65shot
so just think what a 100shot on a 3.5 will do those poor BFR's don't stand a chance
and on the hp side of things if I remember correctly you put down around 220fwhp and the avg 3.0 puts down around 170-180fwhp so you'll need to spray around a 50-65shot
so just think what a 100shot on a 3.5 will do
those poor BFR's don't stand a chanceNow doing the same thing in 3rd gear lets me hold traction better, but it gets to 3rd gear redline daymn fast. I like it. I think I'll jet the LandShark for a 50-75 combination next. and go for another ride. I did get one PLX log file on WOT while spraying both stages, and A/F stayed under 13:1. I feel another dyno coming up...
As a side note, the car feels a little stronger N/A with the throttle opening all the way....
.
Last edited by grey99max; 06-21-2008 at 08:31 PM.
06-22-2008, 07:36 AM
#69
I worked on the nitrous wiring some more today and went out for a little test. The second stage is jetted for a 50-shot, so spraying the 35-shot in first gear is about all the BFG DRs can handle on the street -lots of tirespin- but after getting into 2nd, then spraying the 35-shot plus the 50-shot just breaks loose the DRs again... (Spraying a 175-shot combination is still my long-term plan -400 whp sounds neat! 225 + 175 = 400)
Now doing the same thing in 3rd gear lets me hold traction better, but it gets to 3rd gear redline daymn fast. I like it. I think I'll jet the LandShark for a 50-75 combination next. and go for another ride. I did get one PLX log file on WOT while spraying both stages, and A/F stayed under 13:1. I feel another dyno coming up...
As a side note, the car feels a little stronger N/A with the throttle opening all the way....
.
Now doing the same thing in 3rd gear lets me hold traction better, but it gets to 3rd gear redline daymn fast. I like it. I think I'll jet the LandShark for a 50-75 combination next. and go for another ride. I did get one PLX log file on WOT while spraying both stages, and A/F stayed under 13:1. I feel another dyno coming up...
As a side note, the car feels a little stronger N/A with the throttle opening all the way....
.
06-22-2008, 02:26 PM
#70
First thing is another chassis dyno in Kansas city, one pull to see what she makes with open cutout and complete throttle opening, one for that plus a 50-shot first stage, then another with a 50shot+50shot of nitrous.
This should give me an idea of how well the nitrous is working. Then it's off to some local Test-n-Tune for a few passes, providing the rains let up. 75% of Topeka and KC track sessions have been rained out this year, so I gotta be real sure of the weather before I spend $150 to trailer somewhere.
I did finish the wiring this morning, and decided to jet the two stages for 50-shot each. Any more than that - on the street - and I'm just wasting gas and tire rubber. I'm using 91 octane so far, and the three front plugs I pulled this morning look OK. I have pix.
This should give me an idea of how well the nitrous is working. Then it's off to some local Test-n-Tune for a few passes, providing the rains let up. 75% of Topeka and KC track sessions have been rained out this year, so I gotta be real sure of the weather before I spend $150 to trailer somewhere.
I did finish the wiring this morning, and decided to jet the two stages for 50-shot each. Any more than that - on the street - and I'm just wasting gas and tire rubber. I'm using 91 octane so far, and the three front plugs I pulled this morning look OK. I have pix.
06-24-2008, 08:56 PM
#71
I took the LandShark out tonight for some tests with the 50+50 shot, and the car was even stronger at launch going through first and second gears - third was - scary - and got to 110+ in no time, but at least I kept traction in 3rd.
Can't say the same for first and second gears... ... Nitrous makes up for the relative lack of power under 4500, and you still can feel when the car "goes on the pipe" around 4500 - redline comes up immediately.
I gotta dyno this car again. I'm also going to design a new Shift_Fast_2 tranny controller to fire the three nitrous stages as it shifts through the gears. Yes, three - got all the stuff already, and looking at the wiring diagram I see how easy it's gonna be to control nitrous stages - one for each gear! I will build in a window switch to control the 2nd and third stages, just to keep the 3.5 together.
.
Can't say the same for first and second gears...
... Nitrous makes up for the relative lack of power under 4500, and you still can feel when the car "goes on the pipe" around 4500 - redline comes up immediately. I gotta dyno this car again. I'm also going to design a new Shift_Fast_2 tranny controller to fire the three nitrous stages as it shifts through the gears. Yes, three - got all the stuff already, and looking at the wiring diagram I see how easy it's gonna be to control nitrous stages - one for each gear!
I will build in a window switch to control the 2nd and third stages, just to keep the 3.5 together. .
06-25-2008, 06:50 AM
#72
I took the LandShark out tonight for some tests with the 50+50 shot, and the car was even stronger at launch going through first and second gears - third was - scary - and got to 110+ in no time, but at least I kept traction in 3rd.
Can't say the same for first and second gears... ... Nitrous makes up for the relative lack of power under 4500, and you still can feel when the car "goes on the pipe" around 4500 - redline comes up immediately.
I gotta dyno this car again. I'm also going to design a new Shift_Fast_2 tranny controller to fire the three nitrous stages as it shifts through the gears. Yes, three - got all the stuff already, and looking at the wiring diagram I see how easy it's gonna be to control nitrous stages - one for each gear! I will build in a window switch to control the 2nd and third stages, just to keep the 3.5 together.
.
Can't say the same for first and second gears...
... Nitrous makes up for the relative lack of power under 4500, and you still can feel when the car "goes on the pipe" around 4500 - redline comes up immediately. I gotta dyno this car again. I'm also going to design a new Shift_Fast_2 tranny controller to fire the three nitrous stages as it shifts through the gears. Yes, three - got all the stuff already, and looking at the wiring diagram I see how easy it's gonna be to control nitrous stages - one for each gear!
I will build in a window switch to control the 2nd and third stages, just to keep the 3.5 together. .
06-25-2008, 12:43 PM
#73
NICE, I was talking to another org member about 3 stages of nitrous. have you attemped to launch at 3-35k all motor to see what happens or if you are planning 3 stages to spray 35 in 1st so you can get traction and cut the 1st stage off in 2nd then spray a 75shot and in 3rd gear turn on the 3rd stage 75shot for a total of 150 and if needed you can alway turn the 1st stage back on for a total of 185. this will meet your goals of 400whp and should be easy on the motor long as you are bringing the stages in at the correct rpms which should not be a problem with the shift-fast window switch controller
I'm going to operate the three N2O stages to follow which gear the transmission is in - I won't play games with turning them ON and OFF, since it makes more sense to me that way. I can adjust the A/F for each stage easier - I have lots of jets... and once a stage is set I shouldn't have to set it again. A 50-shot + 75-shot + 50-shot should take me to 400 FWHP. More would be a bonus...
I put 5 gallons of Sunoco 104 into the tank last night - I was very low on 91 octane anyway, and I like the added insurance I get with race gas.
We shall see...
.
Last edited by grey99max; 06-25-2008 at 12:46 PM.
06-27-2008, 06:40 AM
#74
ok so I had about 3lbs left in my bottle made a nitrous pass on the street just to test things out before I get the bottle refilled and hit the track. so when I took the bottle out there was about 1lb or so left and when I opened to bottle to empty it, it was air.
is this normal when the bottle gets that low for it to be mostly air just wondering cause in the pass I would just run the bottle down to 2-5lbs and just get it topped off. which would mean that when the bottle is refilled I would have 2-5lbs of air and the rest nitrous and so now each time I do this.
what I have been doing for the last to fills is cracking the bottle open empty it out, stick it in the freeze and get it filled
is this normal when the bottle gets that low for it to be mostly air just wondering cause in the pass I would just run the bottle down to 2-5lbs and just get it topped off. which would mean that when the bottle is refilled I would have 2-5lbs of air and the rest nitrous and so now each time I do this.
what I have been doing for the last to fills is cracking the bottle open empty it out, stick it in the freeze and get it filled
06-27-2008, 05:28 PM
#75
well the track got rained when I was halfway there so no #'s to report back with but I'll try again in a few weeks 
Man i never worked so hard so a time slip, when I finally break 12's I'm cracking open a bottle of the good stuff
Man i never worked so hard so a time slip, when I finally break 12's I'm cracking open a bottle of the good stuff
Last edited by t6378tp; 06-27-2008 at 05:31 PM.
06-27-2008, 06:25 PM
#76
I got a cigar & some fresh lungs waiting on this time slip...
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