NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Just to avoid confussion there are 2 different problems discussed in this thread. Disreguard the first one as I have switched to a dynotune wet conversion kit discussed a few posts down, thanks.


Hey guys,

Well I bought Matt Calders old dry NOS kit and recently got around to installing everything. Pretty fun, never ran nitrous before but I already want to bump the shot (50 now). I'll probably get the NX wet kit solenoids. Anyway I know its overkill right now but I threw in 2 step colder plugs and have a fuel pressure and EGT gauge to monitor things. Since Ive sprayed the fuel pressure stays consistently at 45psi regardless of engine load according to the gauge. I know before I sprayed it was about 38 at idle and 43 under WOT. Any idea whats up? Also didnt notice my EGTs get much above 600 after a few highway pulls which really isnt much different than if i had run NA. Is this normal? Thanks for any help guys.

Grant

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

ha, well answered my first question. the hose got blown off the FPR... hooked it back up and just fine now

mtrai760

iTrader: (19)

You answered your first question already, but no, that is not normal. I used small zip ties to help make sure that line stayed on.

For EGT's, are you running a celcius or farenheit gauge? Temps should not exceed 1300 degrees F, around 800 C.

You also only really need one step colder plugs, even if your running a 100 shot. 2 step colder is going to affect your NA power.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

well, now i feel dumb. not sure if the FPR becoming disconnected caused something not to work in the kit and thus no nitrous... hence no boost in EGT. It was cold out when I ran so the car jumped alot more than it did previously so I think it was my mind playing tricks on me that it actually sprayed. I knew a 50 shot had to feel more "umph". Anyways, back to square one. My roommate and I have gone over the wiring countless times and cant seem to figure out why the system wont activate. Its wired exactly like the diagram. I guess the next best course of action is to test the power at the WOT switch, window switch, and fuel pressure safety switch??

mtrai760

iTrader: (19)

A couple things, first off, your not really going to 'feel' a 50 shot, it should not 'kick' when it starts, the car simply goes faster. Don't get me wrong, a 50 shot is great, and it's certainly where you should start, just don't expect a huge noticeable difference, other than it pulls all the way to redline. Where you will notice a difference is on the track, I knocked 1 second off my 1/4 time with a 50 shot. You also need to make sure you have proper bottle pressure, especially as we cool down into winter and fall. Bottle pressure plays a HUGE role in how much nitrous your actually getting, and that it is delivered properly.

Second, you need to setup your fuel pressure safety switch properly, or you will not get any nitrous spray. To test if everything else is working properly, first remove the nozzle from the intake and secure it somewhere you can see from inside of the car. Next, you need to ground the fuel pressure safety switch, just run a wire from it to a ground on the car. Then, without starting the car, turn the power to on, step on the throttle to activate the full throttle switch, and briefly switch the nitrous on, you should see it spray out of the nozzle. If you do not, then something is not hooked up correctly, or functioning properly.

To setup the fuel pressure safety switch, you first need to get it working at stock fuel pressure. This takes some time and multiple adjustments. I taped off the hole in my intake and ran the nitrous line so the nozzle was out of the hood where I could see it. Adjust the FPS switch down until nitrous will spray under normal fuel pressure. I then adjusted it up until nitrous would not activate, and turned it down a hair. It's a real pain to setup. Not sure if someone knows a better way, and it was quite a while ago when I did it, several years now.

Hope this helps. Try not to get frustrated, nitrous takes quite a lot of time to get right. A 50 shot is relatively safe, it's hard to screw your car up with that, just take your time. Patience is key. Thinking back now, it probably took me a few weeks before I had everything working right. Make sure to check your plugs after you get a good run in. Just because your EGT's are good, does not mean you are not running lean. EGT's will vary depend on where you placed the probe, and your exhaust setup.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

welp...found my problem. solenoids are friiiiiiiiied. Not sure if its bc they are old and have been sitting for awhile un-used but I opened them up and there is a distinct burnt smell and the wrapping around the coils was charred. The wiring is exactly as the diagram shows. I guess it only makes sense to go ahead and get the wet conversion as I was planning on doing that anyways. fml.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Sooo heres the damage. Toast? Still smells like burning.

altezzablazes

dam

BuiltnBoostedZ

I personally would never buy a used nitrous kit for this very reason. 2nd, please buy a wet kit or convert what you have. Imports don't like dry kits. NX makes a damn good kit. I've used them for 10-12 years.

Some other things to consider. Dynotune TPS/Window switch. VQ specific fuel tap. I used the AAM fuel tap. Bolts right in and you don't have to worry about leaks or buying a new line to put it back to stock. So don't use the supplied NX fuel tap...it blows.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Guess I should give yet another update here... I have actually recently purchased dynotune's wet conversion kit as of last week.

Unfortunately after months of research and planning I had a nitrous backfire this week. Quite unfortunate actually bc I have so many "fail safes". (WOT switch, FPSS and a window switch) Just got the kit installed actually. 1st run went great and as I was slowing down in 4th to try another run, I look up and my EGTs are soaring and I can hear the nitrous spraying even though Im coasting with no throttle. In a split second reaction I hit the gas so the system wouldnt run lean and BOOM.. backfire. Should have just hit the kill switch in hindsight. Ive spent the last day taking things apart and it looks as if the explosion was contained to the intake piping. It blew the screen out of the MAF and fried the IACV. I think what happened was one of the leads was exposed on the FPSS and it wasnt secured well in the engine bay and it moved under acceleration and grounded the system on a hardline nearby. Scared the crap outta me, haha. Anyway Im hoping thats all this is as the manifold looks fine.

My luck and nitrous

Bye Bye MAF


What the inside of the IACV should look like... and what mine looks like

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

After all this I should also say that while scary, this in no way sways my mind about the fact that nitrous is just as safe as any other FI application if installed properly. My case was a fluke, a simple oversight if you will concerning the leads on the FPSS.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

sorry to here about the backfire, hopefully it did not cause any internal damage

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

thanks man. when i drove the car for a bit shortly after the backfire I noticed two main problems.

1. at idle the rpms constantly jump between 2500 and 3500 which, in my mind points to the fact that my IACV is charred all to hell.

2. the car feels like it wants to stall under acceleration once i hit 2500rpms, indicating the problem with the MAF

I hope its as simple as replacing these items but I may do a compression and leak down test as well. When I took the upper IM off everything visible seemed fine so Im hoping for the best.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

That happened to me once, with one of my previous 3.0s while spraying - the engine had three rapid nitrous explosions, which blew out the MAF screen, wadded up into a ball, blew it into the air filter and melted through #4 piston. I just swapped it out with another junkyard-dog motor, but that was scary! I keep the screen to remind me of how quickly things can go wrong...

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Little update here guys. I replaced the MAF and IACV and the car runs perfectly, so instead of having to replace a motor I only spent about a hundred bucks.

I would like some insight though if anyone can jump in just to be sure this doesnt happen again. Everything has been wired correctly according to the diagram in the instructions. Assuming this is all correct my question is was the cause of this really what I believe it to be.. The exposed lead on the FPSS grounding the system? My friend Mad-Max_SE is a wiring guru and believes that this the cause. It makes sense but I just wanted to see if we might have overlooked something.

Just to describe the situation again, I was coasting in 3rd gear after my first run which went perfect. The rpms are dropping and Im giving no throttle. Suddenly I feel the car surge forward, not near what it would if I had applied throttle but enough to notice. I look up and my EGTs are passing 600 quickly and I can hear the nitrous spraying. Now I was still in the rpm window according to my window switch which works (3200-6000 for the time being). After it was all said and done and we looked under the hood and the lead connected to the FPSS (which we forgot to cover) was resting on the hardline near the back of the engine bay next to the driver side strut tower which snakes under the battery and ultimately goes to the AC compressor I believe. As I posted above, in hindsight I should have hit the kill switch but in a split second decision I didnt want the system to run lean so I hit the gas which caused the explosion almost instantaneously.

Any ideas about other possibilities? Thanks guys,

Grant

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

without seeing a diagram of how you have everything wired I would said check everything, make sure all wires are covered, either take the nozzle out or disconnect the bottle and make some test passes

if something like this happens again do not floor it, just shut everything down car included. You should already have a master switch on the nitrous that will shut it down. also I would sell the fpss and get a a/f saftey switch.

reason is the the fpss will only shut down when fuel psi drops below and set value but what if you your injector/injectors or fuel niod gives out the fpss will not pick that up and bye bye motor. A a/f switch will shut down and a pre-set a/f setting which will happen whether fuel psi, injector or niod related

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Thank you sir,

an A/F safety switch is definitely on the list before I run the nitrous again. Was looking at one on Dynotune's site recently and found one. Thinks its also time I stop wussing out and finally buy a wideband.

Grant

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I would not stop spraying if it's a small shot ie 100 and below to me. honestly it sounds like you had a freak accident. this make sure everything is cool 1st. start by spray without nitrous then a 35shot to make sure everything is cool, then once everything is confirmed have fun but remember once you go over a 75shot it time to upgrade the pump or injectors if your still using the dry kit

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

BTW I would do vac check to see if any of your valves are ***'d. the car will still run and sometimes ok too but it does not mean they were not damaged during the backfire.

on my truck I was thinking about making some kind of blowout plugs in the intake just encase

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

yea this occured with a 50 shot (wet). I ended up buying dynotunes conversion kit and have 35,50,75 shot jets. I really think it was one of those 1 in a million type deals bc weve gone over the wiring so many times, this should not have happened.

I'll search on the vac check, not sure how that is performed. Good idea with the blow out plugs.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Does NOS have warranty on their solenoids? The reason I ask is because, I once opened up my bottle on my NX kit and heard a hissing, i walk over to the engine bay and turns out the nitrous solenoid was leaking nitrous! (not good and good thing my car was off). NX has lifetime warranty and replaces/repairs the solenoids at no charge. My point is, make sure your nitrous solenoid is in good shape (maybe send it to NOS to have it looked at), just in case the solenoid didn't get stuck open.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Haha I should have started a new thread as these are two different problems Ive had. The NOS solenoids gave out almost immediately. I have since replaced them with brand new ones from dynotune by converting to their wet kit so hopefully they should be fine. I used silicon paste on all my threads to prevent leaking and never heard any when I opened the bottle.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

^ Good point but it will know if it's leaking soon as he turns the car on and the idle goes up when the system is activated or if he takes the nozzle out and see's the the mist.

here is a link on how to read vac

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

thanks for the link! im gonna check that out here in the next few days

2002AltimateV6

iTrader: (7)

Are you using a WOT switch? Because after thinking about it.. I can't see how the nitrous solenoid (unless jammed) would have continued to spray. The FPSS is just a ground cut when fuel pressure drops. That wouldn't cause the system to start unless you have it wired differently compared to me. (Check thread "Nitrous Wiring Diagram" for my setup) Just really strange.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Yea I have a WOT switch and the solenoids are brand new from dynotune. I guess Ill check the system with the nozzle sticking out so I can see for sure whats happening.

2002AltimateV6

iTrader: (7)

Micro-switch style or electronic? I would check to make sure the micro-switch isn't sticking. The toggle switch should always be the first preventative item for accidental nitrous activation. The WOT switch should always be second. As soon as you let off, there should be NO power in the system. But then again, I don't know how your system is wired up.. so I can't judge.

Just yeah.. ^what they said. Check the wiring.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

yea ill post up how everything is wired soon. its a micro switch and its never stuck when ive checked it manually.

aic96max

iTrader: (12)

maybe you can custom bolt a backfire pressure relief valve somewhere on the intake.
worth a shot if it saves more mafs in the future

2002AltimateV6

iTrader: (7)

Yeah. Something really doesn't seem right with your setup. Especially if your solenoids melted like. I can only imagine that your system is getting power (to activate the solenoids) from somewhere it shouldn't be.

Please post up your wiring schematic before trying to spray again!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INTAK...item33533ddfe4
But this shouldn't even be needed if the system is wired up correctly.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

haha, again, these are two separate incidents. that picture was of my previous dry kit. I have since switched to a dynotune wet kit and thats when I had the backfire. The dry kit never really worked as the solenoids fried the first time I tested the system.

Revs2Hard

iTrader: (7)

I had a shop put mine in so these kind of problems could be avoided. I have ran 12 bottles through my car and now im at 132k. The only thing I have come across is im hearing some niose from my timeing chain guides, but thats not from the nitrous. That is normal wear and tear, so i'll be replacing those and then back to squeezing next spring.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

it does not matter who or how well the kit was installed parts sometimes fail plus you can have user error

Even pro's have backfires sometimes just like when turbo guys have boost spikes. I have gone thur so many bottles over the years that I can not even count and did not have a backfire but it can still happen, like I said parts sometimes just fail

double check your wiring upload a diagram if possible but like stated before this sounds like a freak accident. If something like this happens again shut it down and do not floor it

2002AltimateV6

iTrader: (7)

That's the point I'm trying to make. Something is up with the wiring. Solenoids don't fry like that w/o something being wrong.

GIVE US THAT WIRING DIAGRAM! Lol.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

ahhh gotcha Yea im working on getting the wiring up for you.

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

Thanks to my roommate Mad-Max_SE for this

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I see something very wrong here ?? - the FP switch is controlling the Gnd (BLK) connection of the MSD RPM switch. This means that the MSD is not powered up until the WOT switch is activated, and that takes a few seconds before it works.

The black wire from the MSD should go directly to a battery ground, and the WOT switch should go to switched battery + , through the FP Switch , to the arming switch +12v connection.

Nice diagram, though....

Mad-MAX_SE

iTrader: (2)

Ok i'll correct that next time I'm under the hood for grant. We had 3 different diagrams that put the FPSS in the ground of the circuit.

2002AltimateV6

iTrader: (7)

505 or grey99, wanna confirm this looks good? I think this is the correct way to have your setup wired up. Make sure to run a 30AMP fuse from the battery to the relay with 10AWG wiring and a 10AMP with 14AWG. That's how I have mine wired up currently but instead of a mechanical switch I'm running a electronic. Works fine.

The WOT switch must prevent power from being sent to the solenoids (via the relay) But the toggle switch should still allow to power up the window switch so it's on and set. Basically all the window switch does it cut ground when it's out of the window. That's why the FPSS is wired up inline with the output wire. So if either is out of whack it will cut ground and thus cut the relay.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

yeah what Harold said, plus the msd and arming switch needs should be wired to a switched source and not a direct 12v source. The arming, fpss and wot all in series to the relay so when all three are not activated the nitrous will not fire