Shadow

iTrader: (15)

In Jason's defense, he was there for the entire build of his turbo kit and did as much of the wrenching as possible.

And he was there for all of the dyno runs and my friend who runs the shop was explaining all the different aspects of dyno pulls and such to him. So Jason isn't just pulling stuff out of thin air. But most of the cars that my friend dynos are in the 500+ whp territory, some see near 1000 whp. So what applies to those cars may or may not necessarily hold true for a Maxima. These cars pull through 4th gear faster than most Maximas go through 1st gear.

And where does everyone get this idea that Jason pays everyone to do all the work to his car?

-His friend and he installed his 5 spd. conversion.

-Jason built his own custom stereo

-Jason installed all electronics in his car.

-Jason installed his nitrous

-Jason did a lot of the work on his turbo setup. We didn't just do it all for him while he watched. He was the one up at 3 am installing his gauges/measuring pipes/test fitting parts, mounting parts, installing all lines, fuel stuff and so on.

So he knows just as much about the specifics of the work done to his car as anyone else.


About the only thing he's just had a shop do is his big brakes, and his bodywork.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I just love it when you young guys get your feathers all ruffled up.

thebigsadler

iTrader: (4)

Hmm.. let's look at this dyno plot.. mmhmm okay.. mmhmm.. it's not a boosted car you idiot. Of course a stock car will make the same power in every gear, that's how n/a works..

think about boost.. just for a second.. is it the same power and tq in EVERY gear?? No. You've got to be kidding me on the stock dyno reference.. what forum are we in again? don't jay25, hal, nigel, etc run in 4th?
Who are you to say I don't do my own wrenching? I've done more work on my car in the past 6 months, then you will ever do on your car, ever. What have you done that is so fantastic and difficult.. what did you plug those clear corners in? did you wire your sub in yourself too? roll my eyes.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

You said, "I have never in my life heard of people dyno'ing in 3rd gear.. think about logically, the powerband is shorter and stronger therefore throwing the numbers higher.", I said there are people who do 3rd gear dynos and don't, so there was NO mention of boosted in either post.

You asked for a third gear gear dyno...I gave you a third gear dyno. NO mention of boosted cars. At full boost hp and tq in 3rd or 4th is just multiplied through the gearing causing the dyno graph to be shifted a little. So, if you get enough of the powerband in 3rd, 4th isn't necessary.

Yes, you have, because I've moved on to bigger fish. No need to waste more of my money on FWD until the warranty is over. I don't need to detail all I've done on cars, however just for giggles I've turbocharged and fuel injected a CBR 600F2 engine with standalone TEC-II(installed/tuned myself!), done JUST AS MUCH of a turbo "install" as you did WATCHING Shadow on a 4th gen. VQ, ie gauges, TT, Fields, FMU, yada yada..., been a member on my company kart team for almost 3yrs., built SAE competition vehicles for 6yrs.(Mini-baja, Forumla 1, etc..), and most recently disassembled/gutted an AWD Ford Cosworth, which I'll be helping rebuild and compete very soon. There's quite a bit more small engine rebuilds and repair, however I don't care to list anymore.

You have a nice car, it just sounds like you don't know what the hell you're talking about MOST OF THE TIME. Maybe it's because you get all hissy instead of just CLEARLY saying what you mean.

Again, a 3rd gear dyno NA or FI is just as valid as a 4th gear dyno, so don't WASTE the time, wear, heat soak, fuel UNLESS you care to compare your dyno to other drivetrain Maximas or cars.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Agreed...probably totally different dyno experience. I'm surprised you don't have to dyno them in 6th to keep from jumping off the dyno. No need to defend anyone, it's not a battle or anything.

I'm not quoting 'everyone', that's just what it sounds like to me from his posts.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

In all honesty, that was the impression I got too.

I'm having a hard time understanding why a boosted engine would produce different power (at the engine) in 3rd gear vs 4th, since power is rpm dependent, not wheel speed dependent. Yes, the engine is going to go through 3rd faster than 4th, but not so fast that the turbo can't keep up, or does it?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

If you are in full boost, it's the same. The only difference between the gears would be how soon, ie at low rpm, you get into full boost.

I just haven't seen ANY turbo 3rd gear vs. 4th gear dynos to confirm the same is also true, however I'm pretty close to having both.

thebigsadler

iTrader: (4)

This whole thing started from custommaxima's turbo kit boasting 305whp at 6psi on a turbo car, why would i completely change the subject to n/a cars? why?
So if my kit is so "rolleyes" why does it put out better numbers than any other kit, proven? Why? You keep flapping your mouth about sh*t you know nothing about, you think I stood around and did nothing with my turbo install when the person I stayed with and worked on this kit with personally said that I did a lot of work on it, more wrenching than himself in fact. Who are you to tell me that I stood around and watched someone do work on my own car?

I roll my eyes to any kart teams or any SAE building you do because you probably were the oil boy or the rag boy, so that's neither here nor there. You have a whole team for SAE and for karting, I had me and another person to build with.. in a garage.. in atlanta.. at 3am in the morning.. coming out of my own pocket.

Take your whiny **** off this forum if you have moved on to such bigger and better things, I don't think I have ever read an informative post of yours.. ever.
What do I not know about on my car.. what has been done that I don't know the ins and outs of.. what the f*ck are you talking about? It's nice to see you can at least compliment work, but then to say I don't know anything about it or anything at all. I've pioneered a crapload of stuff for the maxima community, tried more stuff than anyone on this board (for the most part) in all different areas and tried to expand my knowledge, so where do you get the ***** to say sh*t like that?

You know, right now I will go ahead and say I am wrong about the 3rd and 4th gear dyno comparison, there, I manned up and said I was wrong.

Now you explain to me how in 3rd gear a car made 305whp at 6psi, when all other cars are making 230whp at similar psi?? Just try to explain that please.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

"understand the powerband on a 3rd gear pull"? Again it doesn't matter and N/A cars aren't going to be that different when comparing a 3rd vs. 4th gear dyno. Third gear N/A dynos are available and that's why I used them.

Never said 'your' kit isn't the sheit, nor talked crap about its numbers. Again, 3rd gear, 4th gear, who gives a sheit. That's NOT the reason it put down those numbers. If you think it is, you don't understand ANYTHING about the physics behind a turbo. Tell me what trim and A/R compressor/turbine puts out those numbers at 6psi? Doesn't exist. Clearly it's a leaking waste-gate and he's boosting higher then 6psi, otherwise IT'S NOT POSSIBLE unless he's using nitrous or a HUGE CF.

First, I WAS THE TEAM. Others, helped. One night to 3am? Haha. If you spend REAL man hours, it would have taken days. I've spent more then 24hrs. boosting a 4th gen VQ after work until AM hours over a couple weeks, so ONE NIGHT 3am isn't ****. However, after Shadows' and your response, I must say I have MORE insight into what you've done and would like to retract my statement that you don't put in the time. Apparently, you do, it just didn't SOUND like it. Without actually knowing you, I wouldn't know.

Same to you. Showing pictures of shinny BS isn't contributing. REAL members, such as myself, put together sick hours of writeups and answer tons of email on HOW TO DO something. Not oooh....look at my shinny new XXXXX, I'm so cool.

Tell me how you picked your turbo. What A/R and trim compressor AND turbine did you choose and why? What calculations did you come up with to find the optimal wheel for an ACTUAL Pressure Ratio, Corrected Air Flow, and Corrected Gas Turbine Flow? Also, how much fuel in cc do need to support say 15psi of boost and how are you planning on supporting it through 2XXcc stock injectors or whatever larger ones you are running? What is your peak fuel pressure going to need to be inorder to SAFELY obtain those cc flow rates?

Thank you...very man of you.

Easy...it's ....especially with only PhotoShop dynos to back it up.

Last, I have NOTHING against you, your dyno, or Shadows kit. I'm VERY very thrilled there is another AWESOME product available. The jury is still out on the CM kit, since I haven't seen anything but bogus claims.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Also, if you care to list out your response to my questions:

PLEASE start another thread, since I think it would CONTRIBUTE to others learning for future reference especially once we see how your turbo performs.

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

I'll try to field this one. Basically I went through this with my friend who runs a performance shop (where the car was dynoed at). He knows more about turbo specs/compressor maps/efficiencies and so on than I ever hope to know. I went through the specs of the Maxima with him, and even showed him some dyno charts of n/a maximas to show him the powerband. We went through all the charts and tables and basically I told him what we were looking for with this particular setup and went from there. Based on what he told me, I picked the setup and ran it by him, he agreed with it and that was it.

So we ended up with a

T3/T04E
60 trim
.63 A/R on intake and exhaust
Stage 3 wheel

The Honda guys kept saying the turbo is too small for a 3.0L, but it works for a street Maxima very well.

Right now I'm going through the same thing for my own car. But I have different requirements, so my turbo will be radically different, ie much bigger.

As for the fuel setup, to be honest with you we kept it simple because Jason doesn't plan to run insane pressure through the turbo. We just got a Walbro 255 HP fuel pump, Cartech FMU, and SAFC. At full boost, 5 psi, the car sees 65 psi fuel pressure. It originally was at 80 psi, but while on the dyno, my friend did some tinkering with the FMU and brought it down. The A/F is pretty much flat at 12:1 across the board. The AFC was hardly used for any tuning, the Cartech handled all this. To me at least 65 psi at full boost is well within the safe range for the stock injectors, so I'm not too concerned with his car having fuel delivery issues. If Jason chooses to turn the boost up beyond 10 psi or so, we may have to rethink some things.

Once again, for my car the fuel setup will be very different. Since I have resources to a dyno pretty much any time I need it and get a very discounted dyno rate, I'm going to try the e manage with bigger injectors.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

This snowflake tastes like fishsticks.

Like I mentioned before... it's most likely a wastegate leak.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

wouldn't the torque be a lot higher in lower gears? i know i'm comparing FF with FR but in rwd cars they will change the rear end to say a 4:11 which makes the acceleration quicker but top end lower. if you go to www.howstuffworks.com and search for torque, i believe, it will tell you that when they do that they are increasing the amount of torque to the wheels. so, i would think doing a dyno in a lower gear would make it appear to have more torque than if you were to dyno a 1:1 gear. please correct me if i'm wrong.

ereet

The torque on one of my dynos was around 318 @ 3500rpm. This was during 2nd gear, and it later ran about 235-240ish @ 5800 in 3rd gear. Shadow/Sadler are correct in stating that 3rd gear may inflate your numbers, however until someone posts a boosted dyno in 3rd and 4th gear, we're not going to know by how much. (note: my car is an automatic so don't use my 318->240ish drop as an example

thebigsadler

iTrader: (4)

I would say 3 weeks, straight working on the car, nonstop, 16 hours or more a day is pretty hefty work. One night to 3am does not sum up the amount of work and stress put into this kit.

You think my car is all shine and that's all I have contributed? Right don't you find out how much I have done and how many things I have pioneered for the maxima community, and what things I have started and kept popular. You do what, oil analysis? Nice work, thanks, I'll be sure to send you some of my oil samples on a dirty towel and you can tell me that I need to change it, you've saved my cars life.

This area was already covered.. but just out of curiousity, what does it do for you to know what specs my turbo are, just to see if I know what is on my car? While we are at this, why don't you tell me in depth how to build an entire fiberglass trunk, how to airbag a mcphearson strut car, how to wire up your car to run on all remotes outside the car, I could keep going for hours.. whether they be shiny mods or what have you, its still stuff that you have no clue about but doesnt matter to you because it doesnt mean anything worthwhile.
okay.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

The difference is squat between 3rd and 4th, I have done both back to back. I use third for tuning because its the gear you will use more often in races than 4th, closer to 1st and 2nd. It matters with a FMU's SC car.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah...that's all I do. You don't want to compare d!ck size with me, because you haven't done sheit.

Yes...it shows you DIDN'T know why the CM kit dyno was , which shows back in your original posts:
AND

YOU clearly don't understand how a turbo works, which is fine, you don't need to IF you have someone like Shadow to back you up. No shame in paying Shadow or anyone else to do your mods. My problem is with the fact that you act like a GOD of knowledge by your original posts, yet you clearly show you don't know jack **** about what you were saying. 3rd gear or 4th gear dyno differences wasn't the reason for the inflated numbers. You don't have to get p!ssy about not knowing or paying someone to do your mods. THERE IS NO SHAME! Just don't come on here and throw your "personal experience" around like it's of any weight when it sounds more like 2nd hand knowledge.

Redmax

iTrader: (20)

hey sadler did u dyno your car with the 19's on?

thebigsadler

iTrader: (4)

all i have to say to you, icey2k1, is that until you turbo charge a maxima, keep your mouth shut. and i'll be sure to come to you when i need to hook up my infiniti basslink with remote bass ****.. i cant wait to get it in the mail.

you are what sums up 95% of this board that has no idea about anything. if you notice no one is backing you up, hmm that's odd, yet people are backing me up; it may be because i have contributed things to this board and i have been around for awhile. and yes i paid shadow to build my turbo, i wasnt up late and never worked on the car for more than a total of 3 hours. you can talk to about 10 people from atlanta, including dixit and erik whom know how much i was in and under the car.. but you wouldnt want to actually think before you speak would you?

i already said that you can have your 3rd and 4th gear runs at the same horsepower, so those arguments can just keep going if you want but i am done. you can have the victory here, chalk it up on your maxima.org argument kill list and go back to jerking off to turbo cbr engines while listening to your bass link. but again, you are trying to tell me how my car works, when you in fact dont even own a turbo'd car..

and corey I did dyno my car with my 19s on.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Done...

Conclusion:
Why are CM's turbo numbers so high? Possible wastegate leak causing boost to build up to 9 or 10 PSI.

Which gear should you dyno in on a manual tranny? 3rd or 4th, doesn't matter because the gear ratio is so close. The difference in hp/tq is minor.