Craig Mack

I know hood modifications would probably have to be done to house the blower, but what do you guys think it would cost to build a nice Eaton Supercharger setup? Could anything be salvaged from a Vortech kit? I assume I could use my current AEM FPR, S-AFC for tuning, & Gauges.

It's just a lustful idea, but with all the custom turbo kits out there, I wonder the reasons guys havent fabbed up custom roots supecharger systems.

Roots blower

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Craig,

A)Buy a NX wet kit.
OR
B)Sell the $tealin kit and buy a turbo.

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

A custom turbo is easy relative to a custom roots blower. Wouldn't you have to build a custom intake manifold for the Eaton? Like a casting or something right?

A custom turbo is basically just piping. Since turbos are pretty standard in size. The flanges are standard, and all the fittings are standard off the shelf parts. Just pipe work, but an Eaton would require casting which is way beyond the reach of a DIY project.

ereet

Sounds messy!

Turbo's don't take any power to spin and as Shadow said, should be way easier to custom fabricate. As far as I know, Eaton blowers sit on where the intake manifold is. Which would mean, since there isn't one specifically designed for our car, it won't work without a TON of fabrication.

Maybe if you had a 2002 and threw the 350z blower onto it. (Course, it'd require a brand new hood, piping, and possibly pulley work)

Jr'sMaxima

Just buy a damn muscle car already! haha

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I'll trade you the mustang, even though I think your a chevy guy.

Craig Mack

Yea...custom fabbing a new manifold just to house the blower seems like a lot of money and man hours....you just start to think of things when you see videos of GTP's, Lightnings, Cobras, Ect. with those sweet blowers. Sound so unique when revved up real quick too...then again, so does the $tealin....

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Craig why fantasize about a blower that would require for us to change our hoods, can you picture a maxima with a cow hood? it would look stupid. Mustangs look very stup!d with those cow hoods let alone a nice car like ours. A turbo maxima would own a roots blower maxima.

Nismo87SE

There is no need to make another intake manifold. Look at how this SC kit for the ford probe GT is made and how comptech did it with the accord. Outside of figuring how to mount it and run how to run the drive shaft everything else should be almost straight forward. The eaton M90 probably won't make as much peak power as the V2 from vortech, but it should have more lowend and a flat torque curve. However an eaton M112 would absolutely kick so much ****. That SC should be enough for 400-450whp at max boost!

ejj

iTrader: (5)

I think for the R&D work involved in that, you'd be much better off going the turbo route.

Nismo87SE

That would depend on the size of the turbocharger vs supercharger. For example a T3 turbo wouldn't make more power than an eaton M90. But the M90 won't out power a nice T3/TO4E.

Craig Mack

So, how would you mount the new eaton blower w/o a new manifold? Do you think a custom kit could be build for under $4000? That's what i'm hoping...

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

hmm did not even know they come in different sizes, but still what I am saying is you put that big block on top of the motor, it would not look nice, but not a bad idea, lets see if this kid comes thru with his dream of a roots blower in his max

Craig Mack

Bump....I don't mind cowling my hood....but right now i'm at the crossroads of boost....dump another couple thousand into intercooling, tuning, and possibly new injectors, or custom fab up an eaton kit, follow my dream and sell of this noisy gem. Feedback from the veterans is appriciated.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

sounds like a better way to waste money to me...you haven't even maxed out the capabilities of your current blower and you wanna do this. why not just concentrate on maximizing the V1 performance...oh I forgot you want that trademark roots "whine", of course

Craig Mack

I'm serious man. I don't know that an intercooler/injectors/ecu is what i'm looking for. And before I blow a huge wad of savings on it, It really would be nice if I could follow my heart and mount a roots blower on there. Its a totally different type of power, and one that I'm personally more attracted too. Like I said, i'm at that crossroads point. If I can get a custom fabbed eaton kit for $4000 or cheaper, using new or used parts, I will seriously consider doing it. So I would really appriciate feedback....I have my boost guy on hold, waiting for me to call him back about the intercooler...

Nismo87SE

The same way one would mount another type of SC. I believe a custom kit can be made for less than $4k, rebuilt GM M90 SC's retail at $600. The old Thunderbird had a same size SC too and they are going for $100-300 on ebay. However I'm sure the labor in fabricating new mounting brackets, drive shaft and custom piping would be pretty expensive. That is unless you are good with a welder and have the proper tools.

Street Reeper

Craig your posts on LT1 exhaust notes and roots style blowers are killing me, I laugh out of my seat every time I read one of your new posts.

Here are some nice vid clips that show the sound of a roots blower.

Here is a brand new GTP (Right Click and Save As)

http://www.cperki1.net/videos/mevsgp.mpeg

03 Cobra

http://darius240z.com/videos/new/c5%...03%20cobra.wmv

and another with a midget pulley, man that thing is loud!!

http://makoto.dyndns.org/rick/03CobraFormulaSupra.wmv

Craig Mack

Where do you think would be a good place to mount the blower? Since the engine is mounted at a FWD angle, I don't know how you would mount it with a nice verticle cowl....The M90 blower is the one they use on the SVT lightning/Cobra too, right? I guess it's the most common option? I need to find a reputable shop too. Do all the Eaton blowers sound the same? (in terms of loudness/tone)

Street, thats becuase im obsessed with that stuff. Do the blowers get louder with smaller pullies?

Cutler

iTrader: (3)

Addae put an Eaton on his clothes Dryer, mounted right up

ereet

Craig's future hood :

Craig Mack

Do Eaton blowers lose efficiency at the top end? I know the V1/V2 will be more efficient at the top end, but do the Eaton blowers actually LOSE power, or do they just flatten out? And I would have to remove the upper half of my intake manifold, if I did the eaton setup, correct?

I talked to my boost guy, and if he doesnt have any more projects coming up, he can do it for me, for less then $4000. I hope that I could build the eaton kit, sell off my vortech, and be about in the same position as if I had intercooled/tuned my vortech. I would take the $$$ from selling my V1 and dump it back into savings to fill her back up.

Dave B. once said that if they made a roots kit for the Max, he'd buy it in an instant, becuase it would deliver LS1 like torque. When does the Eaton (specifically M90) start making boost, and when does it fully boost?

Well, this is becoming more and more serious as the days go by. Stephen Max, Ejj, IceY2k1, and everyone else, tell me what you think of all this. Your feedback is like internet gold!

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Craig,

Honestly, I don't have a clue in this area, however I know I've seen a few done in my mags on Miatas and I was pretty impressed with the power curve. I'm sure YOU can find out anything I'd be able to add by just searching Sportcompactcar.com, Turbo&High-Tech Performance, Import Tuner, etc... websites.

I'll see if I can dig up something, but I'm really just not able to relate to your "passion" for a roots type blower. Personally, my opinion would be to sell the Max and buy a '03 Cobra. Otherwise, max the V1 and if it isn't enough, go turbo and keep the parts you can use from the SC setup like injectors, 300Z MAF, JWT ECU, exhaust, intercooler, NX#20923 kit, etc...

ereet

What? I don't get a thank you for showing you what your car will look like with an Eaton Blower?

Hehehe. Craig, the Eaton blower should provide x amount pounds of boost, and be able to deliver it up to redline. My friends Ford Lightning is running something like 12-13lbs I believe with a smaller pulley. It's been a while since I last talked to him but it spools very quickly (can't tell you exactly when it's full boost since I forget ..)

Unless they make Eaton blowers that sits much like the vortech unit and use piping, you WILL be required to replace the intake manifold with a custom made cast unit. Probably muchio dinero. Unlike turbos, superchargers eat a fair amount of power when not boosting, due to the belt setup. You'll still feel this when not under boost however since you'll boost a lot sooner, it will be less noticeable then the V1.

Honestly Craig, unless you want to be spending $4k PLUS your V1, you'd be a lot better just going turbo. It'll give you the torque you want and probably be a lot less of a headache.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Actually, I've seen some pretty exotic ways of mounting them on the front/sides of the engine. I think it was a Cavalier, I'll have to look.

Anyways, basically the blower would just sit above the front exhaust manifold with the pulley end extended to be driven from the V1 location and then some kind of wicked discharge manifold/piping that goes over to the throttle body. The intake source would be interesting, but maybe something like the Mini cooper scoop/filter box would work.

I think it can be done, but would require some creative mounting bracketry and some SICK cast blower discharge manifold/pipe.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

30 psi!!! I installed the 1000cc injectors yeasterday and my clothes come out nice, warm and crispy..no more fabric softner

Craig Mack

Ya, check out Nismo87SE's link. (you proly already have)...the way that probe's kit is set up, the pullies sit where the V1 blower sits, you just run a shaft over to the blower, which sits in the battery spot, and go from there. It actually doesn't look like an unachievable task.

The reason for an Eaton Roots S/C setup over a Turbo is a few things. First, no turbo lag, and it will spool as good/better then the fastest spooling turbo's. Second, is creativity/uniqueness...I really like the idea of being probably the only Roots blown Max Florida and maybe even the US. Third, I already have various supercharger counterparts that I could use from the V1 kit, cutting down on costs more. Lastly, I love the music it makes.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Turbo lag, what is that? have you not seen Baggs turbo spool up. You know what we need a video of a turbo spooling up much faster then that sorry V1 and V2, stay tuned next week because I got some footage of a white turbo maxima spooling up to 10PSI in less then 3 secs. I got some goodies for the org just working on my machine needs a card

Craig Mack

The Turbo lag has nothing to do with how fast the blower can make boost....its that initial lag period when the exhaust gas has to shoot through the turbine, and spool up the compressor, or "turn it on", and THEN the compressor can start making boost. All this can happen quick though, especially with new technology, but still. A supercharger is already being directly powered by the engines belt, so once you floor it, there is instant power...no lag....nothing needed to "turn on" the compressor....just instant power on tap.

Sorry V1? My V1 will spool full boost faster then BaGgS will!

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

understandable how ever next week Ill bring comparison runs, paper and typing dont mean **** to me unless we play it out in person stay tuned for comparison vids

ereet

Craig, Turbo lag went out in the 70's. If you put your foot on it in one of the turbo maximas and you're above 3000rpm, you're at full boost and going FAST.

Craig Mack

You damn ricers and your turbos.

I bet a roots s/c will spool boost sooner and hit full boost faster then almost any turbo. Dave B. said it himself....LS1 like power.

Nismo87SE

I'm not sure if you checked the links I posted or not but an eaton blower doesn't require a new intake manifold to be made. Also jackson racing's maita kit has the supercharger mounted on the opposite side of the engine so it basically sits over the exhaust manifold. One thing I've been curious of is that everyone says the turbo basically uses free energy from the exhaust. However I wondered if anyone has ever tied the wastegate open so the turbo doesn't build boost, therefore it would be like doing a NA dyno. A M90 at 6psi would probably make around 210-250whp depending on mods.

Craig Mack

Do you think my idea for building a roots kit is realistic?

What do you think, with my mods (full exhaust), I would make at 9-10psi with an M90? How about torque? What about the 4th Gen MP90? I am searching to try to find the difference between it and the 3rd Gen M90.

Here is a quote from Eatons site regarding their supercharger vs. Turbo's:

How is an Eaton supercharger different from a turbocharger?
A supercharger is connected directly to the crankshaft by a belt unlike a turbocharger which is driven by exhaust gases. An Eaton supercharger provides improved horsepower and torque, at lower engine rpm's, by pumping extra air into the engine in direct relationship to crankshaft speed. The positive connection yields instant response, in contrast to turbochargers, which must overcome inertia and spin up to speed as the flow of exhaust gas increases. The supercharger is a way to get around "turbo lag". The lubrication system also differs, in that, the supercharger is self-contained whereas the turbocharger requires engine oil.

Craig Mack

What do you guys think about twin screw blowers? Supposedly they dont taper off power at higher rpms like roots s/c's do...and supposedly they are louder at WOT too, screaming bloody murder, like in that 600whp cobra video.

http://www.kennebell.net/

Craig Mack

Check out this informative article on twin screw blowers, in comparison with centrifugel/roots types. http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=20



Too bad they are soo expensive.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

you are such an undercover ricer....just admit you want it for the sound ...I mean if it was really about power you could just work with your V1, plenty potential there. but ah well, good luck

Craig Mack

If it was all about the sound i'd stay with my V1....blow off valve and loud as hell at idle.....roots/positive displacement blowers = no BOV and dead quiet under normal operation. Besides, i'm not out of the woods yet, still very well could be keepin the V1.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

No it wont, Ill show you my friend stand by for proof

LatinMax

iTrader: (1)

I had a Wiean (probably spelled wrong) SC on my 67 Chevy 2 Nova and they produce power from the get go. Also I kind of like the idea of the SC on the right side because you don't have to pull it off to replace the pulley or the belt.
My Nova with a 350 and the Roots sc made some serious power.