Craig Mack

Are you sure it was a roots and not a twin screw? A worry I have with the roots is the power tapering off as the RPMs increase. For instance, losing several PSI at 6000rpm....so going from 9psi to 6psi....which is gay. That is coming from Kenne Bells Twin Screw site, so it is probably biased, and not based on the latest MP90 blower, but its still scary...did you notice this trend?

Street Reeper

Craig you are crazy

If you have the resources the power and application of a turbo is only restricted by what your engine can handle. I didn't even think about not having the BOV, that would end my quest for a roots blower right there. I would go turbo if you have the funds, mounting the roots is going to be a pain and you will need a huge hood (because it would sit high towards the front of the car, as opposed to midway in the engine bay as on a mustange.)

Have you looked at T-trim options or are you just stuck on the sound of the eaton. Put a bad bearing on your water pump if your looking for sound

Dave B

Roots blowers aren't efficent in the upper rpms like a centrifugal blower or turbo. Roots blowers pretty much make full boost right off idle and as the rpms increase, the boost becomes less efficent because Roots blowers generate a ton of heat. With that said, I LOVE ROOTS blowers. IMO, this is the best boost setup to run on the street because you can use it all the time. Turbos and Centrifugal blowers will always be ultimately faster, but you really need to stretch the legs to see the gains. I'd bet a good Roots setup would be consistently quicker in the 1/4 mile compared to most other SC and turbo setups. Low rpm torque owns in the 1/4 mile....assuming you can put the power down.

Do Roots blower whine? Hell yeah they do. Use a smaller pulley and they sound like a 1970s police siren. Completely sweet in my book.

As for a setup on the Maxima, I suggest studying the Probe GT, Comptech, and Cavaliar setups. Those will be the best resources. A new intake manifold isn't required, but it would be more efficent. I use to think installing a Roots blower would be impossible on the 4th gen without a custom intake manifold like the one TRD uses on the Camry, but the Probe setup is an eye opener. It may be possible. The problem will be developing the crossbar and brackets. It needs to be perfect because that bar will be under a lot of stress. You'll loose some power turning that crossbar. A used blower would be cheap. Hopefully the GTP's blower woudn't be too big for the space because I think that blower would be ideal for the VQ.



Dave

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Sweet! I had a 71 Nova, two door fastback. Beautiful, classic looking car, especially with Cragars. So easy to work on, too.

LatinMax

iTrader: (1)

You are right. I had the twin screws. To the point that I had to run it underdrive to keep the motor together.
No I did not notive that trend. I bought it from some old guy that does it for a living (I dought he is still alive) up near Orlando. (I lived in Miami at the time)
I had constant boodt almost from idle and no lag at all it was power all the time.

LatinMax

iTrader: (1)

Ya I could almost climb in the engine compatment with the engine to work on it. The guy I sold it ot when I move to Texas killed him self in it. I was just under 1000 hp with the car.....boy talk about a lot of fun.

Craig Mack

If sound is important....then by all means im a trademark ricer from Japan. Its the eaton siren whine at part/wot, vs. the V1's idle screetch and bov. I mean...with the eaton....no more could I go to gas stations, restaraunts, shopping malls, ect. with people drawn by the V1 shreek, knowing somethings up. But then again, the amazing low-mid range pull would make up for that, as I would pWn cars on a daily basis without having to row her out to redline.

Dave B, Street Reaper, Nismo87SE, Latin Max you all have pms!

Street Reeper

I guess you forgot about me "You have no new private messages"

Honestly Craig I would stick with the V1. It is the same thing that I went through with the Max. At first I wanted somthing newer and faster, but then I came to my senses and said all I really need is a car that looks good and can serve as a reliable platform to modify. I would have had to pay a lot of money for somthing I already had, a car with a frame and an engine that could serve as a project.

You already have the V1 and all the piping, I would just work to modify that. What other options are there besides a T-trim upgrade? If you need low end power why not get a small shot of N2o? Of course you know that you don't need a lot of low end power in a FWD car because up to a point it will make you slower (you will sit and spin.)

I think this would be a reliable set up and one that would make you very fast. The question is would you rather say hey look at this roots blower that can be found stock in a Cobra or GTP, or would you like to say this is my T-Trim SC that gives me about 300hp at the wheels, and if that's doesn't own you the bottle in my trunk will.

That's the direction I'm going, just my .02

Craig Mack

I proly typed in street reAper instead of street reEper I always get that wrong....anyways, I just asked you which sound you preferred more.

The thing i'm afraid of if I keep the V1, is that I will never be totally happy, or have big regrets. I know the Eaton setup would give me the kinda power I want. I mean, a V1/V2 with a 7200rpm redline, ECU, MEVI, and 10+psi would probably pull on an eaton at 10+psi, but it wouldnt be until redline of each gear. Under 3000rpm the Eaton blown max will have a massive advantage...just look at that dyno chart I posted above. Look at all that area where the centrifugel lacks at. The V1 is more of a showy setup to me, as IMO it looks a lot cooler then a roots setup. But, im with Dave B. and Stephen Max when I say the low end just cant be beat. I don't want nitrous, I hate n2o and never want to use it. The T-trim impellar is like $1200, and from what i've heard from Delio, it doesn't spool any faster then our current impellars, it just allows for more boost.

As of now, i'm still pursuing it, and I hope it works out for the price in mind. Otherwise, I'll just stick with my current guns.

Street Reeper

What does Tom say, does he think he can do it? Any forcasted costs? What about the front mount?

I just put a video of a ProCharged 350z vs a E46 SMG M3 in "The Video Thread" if you want to check out a roots blown VQ


http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....72#post2395772

Either way your car will still be one of the baddest 4th gens on here!

Craig Mack

I will definately be checking that out. Tom...I called him today, and he is going out of town. He says he is busy, and to call him mid next week. He is busy and I usually can tell by the tone of his voice and what he says weither or not he wants to do something -- and it sounds like he doesn't want to do it. He knows it can be done, but he's got too much goin on I think. I posted in the southeast forums, for anyone who might know a local shop (central fl) that might be up to the task in my budget range.

And thanks for the compliments man. ...Now if I only had your ripped physique to go along with the package.

(and no i am not gay to the babies who will laugh at that )

Craig Mack

that procharged 350z sounded like poop...no blower wine....just a farty exhaust. procharger = gay

LatinMax

iTrader: (1)

No PM for mw either...mine is LatinMax not Latin Max, don't know if that makes a difference.

Craig Mack

Well, i'm an idiot....sent it to Latin Max and Street Reaper.... ...I basically just asked you the same question....which blower would you prefer and why, and which sound would you rather have?

Street Reeper

I kept the "ee"'s the same in both for symmetry, I am moving soon so I may change my name then. Just push reply on one of the pm's that I sent you when you want to send me somthing.

I am partcial to a BOV so I would probably say stick with the one you have. I havn't heard the sound of a V1 yet so I can't really give a straight forward answer. I'll be picking one up this weekend though

Craig Mack

Well, if anyone wants to host, I have a short (~1.6mb) video clip of my supercharger being revved up.

LatinMax

iTrader: (1)

Contrary I like the silent but deadly point of attack. That's why now I have a V2 and the old style blitz with the bell(trumpet looking) on it. Vey quite. You don't know what's going on until it is toooooo late.
Most people think I am lieing when I decide to tell them that I have a SC. It is nice to surprise them.
Now when I had the Nova I loved the wine of the sc and there was no blow off.

Craig Mack

Guys, what do you think about a turbo in direct comparison to an eaton blower? Since the eaton is directly connected to the driveshaft in a positive displacement fashion, I say that its still going to make more power/torque faster and have more area under the curve, given same circumstances. But I know a lot of you guys have more knowledge able stuff ot say abotu that (Dave B., Stephen, Ejj, Nismo, ect) so, what do you think? Why go with a custom roots setup over a turbo?
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?p=2397976

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Well, its not often that I see my name and 'knowledge able' (knowledgeable I assume) in the same sentance, so I'll throw in my two cents...

While the idea of a roots setup would be cool, I just don't think its worth the fabrication cost and headaches involved. With such a wide varity of turbo choices, I'm sure you can find a turbo out there that will give you similar performance (including curve shape) to a roots blower.

With ANY supercharger, you'll still be limited by pully size, etc. Belt problems, driveshaft (for a setup like pictured before) problems, etc. I think once we've tapped the limits of what our current SC setups can do, going turbo make a while lot more sense.

Craig Mack

So, why do most factory cars use superchargers, more specifically roots, instead of turbos? (Mercedes, Pontiac, Ford, ect) The eaton blower seems to be the popular choice by far.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the roots blower. I just don't think you'll see gains that are that much better than what you can do with a turbo, and with a turbo you'll get flexability, and a larger knowledge base here. If you go roots you'd be the only one. When the blower siezes because the driveshaft isn't perfectly square you won't get much help here.

Why are OEM's using them? I think they are simpler than turbo's. Just a different intake manifold and an extra pully in the pully system. That way they can use the same exhaust and oil system as non-SC'd cars. I also think that trend is changing....turbo is quickly becoming the manufactures boost of choice.

Street Reeper

to what Eric said.

I think if you have the money the turbo would offer limitless potential that would only be constrained by what your engine could handle (the dark side is calling )

The roots blowers are simple and reliable. I remember a Mercedes article that stated the specifics of this but don't know where it is.

Craig Mack

That's why it would have to be perfectly square, that's like a must.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Craigy, that was what us older people refer to as an 'example'.

Craig Mack

I am interested on power specs of the popular turbo here vs. an eaton MP90. I know Dave B. and Stephen Max love the eaton blower, maybe moreso then a turbo, and hopefully they will chime in with some detail as to why.

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

What "regular" car buyers want and what performance enthusiasts want are very different things. Car manufacturers have to cater to the widest audience possible, and the Roots/Eaton is good for that. You get good low end, good response, and good torque. It makes the car feel very fast during regular day to day traffic light driving. How often does the average person redline their cars? Not much. But with Eaton's, their car will feel fast because of the torque and response. And for OE manufacturers, having custom cast manifolds doesn't add too much to the cost since they make them in volume.


I mean, just look at the Honda aftermarket. It's known that if you want a mildly boosted car and a little power boost, then you go with the Jackson Racing SC, the Eaton. Good for daily driving and so on. Mild hp increase, very good torque, very drivable. But if you want real power, you go turbo.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Well, I'd rather have a twin-screw than a roots blower. The efficiency is so much better. But I think overall I'd rather have a turbo system, even though it's kinda neat to have a SC since they are somewhat unusual, at least around here.

autozonemaxima

Your trying to cram common sense into a ricer who is confused. He has no common sense cant you see? Look where hes getting his info from? from some clowns that are not even boosted. One more thing this kid is still in high school. He has no time to tune the car. Thats why someone a long time ago called him Crackmack

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Huh?? Whatchew talking bout, playa? I'm a boosted clown.

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

Mercedes uses turbos on 600 models.

Craig Mack

Ok...let's see here.....'99 granny colored Maxima....NO boost....probably stock, with a few cheap mods from "autozone", like your profile says. So don't hate on me becuase I'm still young, and have boost...your just making yourself look like an @ss bro. Please, just go, don't post in the boosted forums anymore....i'll even buy ya a popcharger if you go away, and never come back. It'll give ya some mad PowAHz yO!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

Craig Mack

Steve, joO the biggest clown of them all man. All you do is post *****, and you never have any good info to contribute whatsoever. Trust me, THIS GUY KNOWS! He has boost, and has more to contribute then all of us. (especially you )

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

well...that's what we(stillen Sc'ed maximas) need...we got owned by area under the curve. I'd rather to get the power early, esp for auto trannies.

Craig Mack

EXACTLY. Our kits could make 321fwhp peak, and still get owned (at least at first) by an eaton blown max making 270fwhp. That eaton max is going to have all that power straight off the bat, to propel him to redline, whereas the V1/V2 blown max is going to have to gradually bring himself to his 321fwhp, with much less power under the curve to work with.

Craig Mack

So, is there any difference between the Eaton M90 and the MP90? As far as I *know* the MP90 is a newer model and is more efficient. Is this true? As far as I knew, Eaton only made the M45, M60, M90, and M112, but I have been hearing stuff about a new 4th Generation MP90.... thoughts?

Craig Mack

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_mp90_4th.htm

http://www.myhps.com/m90.html

-HPS utilizes a Magnuson 4th Generation MP90 version of the Eaton supercharger that is the virtually unanimous choice of original equipment manufacturers (over 20 companies use this system on over 60 different automobiles.) This Magnuson/Eaton Model MP90 is a state-of-the-art supercharger engineered for 3.0 to 5.7 liter passenger cars and light truck engines. It was designed to be compact and flexible, for increased power without excessive noise, and to retain OEM-levels of reliability without adversely affecting fuel economy. The M90 has proven itself in a number of original equipment and aftermarket applications on a variety of engine sizes. This 4th Generation version has taken this versatility to the next level with Port technology and a built-in bypass valve for unparalleled performance.

The MP-series 4th Generation superchargers are the result of hundreds of hours
of flow-bench research and test-stand evaluation, and years of experience manufacturing over one million superchargers. This research has led to the development of inlet and outlet configurations that increase volumetric efficiency to the mid-90% range. Adiabatic efficiency, delta temperature, and power requirements have also been dramatically improved.

The MP-series 4th Generation superchargers feature a built-in bypass assembly that greatly simplifies installation and virtually eliminates parasitic power loss during part-
throttle operations.

Craig Mack

where meh bOost GuRUz aT, yO!!!!!!