mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

i need a turbo for racing and every day carso i figured i need one that boosts fully around 3000 rpm but begins boosting around 2ooo rpm and more important keeping the boost coming till redline and not fading away i heard t3/t04 looses power on the top end but when does it spool up and when does t4 spool up with what a/r ratio , if you can guide me to different dynos that'll be great,,thnx

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

t3/t4 is probally your best bet. It will spool early, but it is kind of hard to have the best of both worlds.

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

hlh was talking about one that acts in the same way but i can't remember which one he was talking about

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

i think the t3/t04 chokes up on the top end but which set up or combination or trim you were talking about

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

why don't you e-mail him.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

It depends on A LOT more factors then just "T3/T4" or "T3/TO4", such as housing A/R and wheel trim(diameter).

When you get a BIG compressor wheel like the TO4 with the small T3, eventually the T3 turbine wheel won't have enough surface area/capacity to keep up...even in a 1.XX A/R housing. The TO4 can flow more then enough, however the T3 which drives the TO4 can't, which is probably what you guys are calling "choke".

Depending on how much you're willing to spend on a turbo, I'd personally go with a GT30R(same as HKS 3037) or the HKS equivalent of a GT30/35R(until Garrett makes it part of the lineup) for up to 15psi. This is about as efficient a turbo as I can come up with for our VQ30 and either are well capable of supporting 400+whp.

on_alert

Yeah, i was going to use a garret gt3040 (some people call it a 3035) on my max. It was 'rated' to 625 HP. It is a t3 housing and a t04s compressor side. It's pretty intense.



However, I forget what A/R it is... I got it from www.cheapturbo.com, those guys rule.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Check out the price from these guys:
GT30R($1350):
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=GRT
GT35/40R($1395):
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=GRT

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

What is the diameter of the exhuast exit.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

This has it all:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob.../downloads.jsp

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

That is a very nice turbo. I'm running a standard Garrett T3/T04S. No ball bearings and such, but it was half the price. Got it from cheapturbo too. Those guys are great.

Oh spanish, the exhaust exit on all T3's is 2.5" as far as I know. I've never seen a T3 that wasn't.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

I have a T4/T04E SS BB. This is more then enough turbo for my car. I am only using 60% Efficiency and the **** spools up very freaking fast Why am I using only 60% Efficiency of the actual turbo? because the **** spikes to 12 PSI in less then 5 secs. Thats why I dont understand why are people using these large diameter non BB turbos. A t4/T04E is more then enough turbo for our cars. I know in my situation I have enough from 3200-6600. I also have to be very soft and gentle on the throttle, if not the car goes crazy to the point where it pulls left and right from so much torque.

subs1000w

i think i just wet myself

you guys just make want boost more and more everyday

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

A large compressor side doesn't affect the spool nearly as much as the turbine side does. I think I'm the only one running a non ball bearing T04S compressor. on alert's is ball bearing I believe. I hit full boost by a little under 3500 rpm since it's a hybrid. That's probably about where you see full boost. And with the A/R's on the turbo, it doesn't fall flat on the top end either. So spool is good, and the top end is good. Pretty much the same reason you have the ball bearing turbo. But the turbonetics ball bearing is like $1300 or so? I paid ~$700 or so. That's why I'm using a big compressor side on a non ball bearing turbo, it gives me the power characteristics I want.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Also, good to know when coughing up for BB option:

-Turbonetics are NOT DUAL ball-bearing. They make their own SINGLE ball bearing center section with only BB on the compressor. Mitsubishi use the same center section.

-Innovative Turbo Systems has TRIPLE BB center section including load and thrust bearing.

-XS Engineering carries IHI turbos plus their own Garrett DUAL BB center section turbos.

-HKS uses Garrett wheels and DUAL BB center sections.

-Garrett GT-Series are the cutting-edge in wheel, housing, and center section design. You can't buy any better.

At least last I'd read, they could have changed by now. My point is, don't fall for the "ball-bearing upgrade" advertising. Know what you are paying for ESPECIALLY when it comes to getting GT-series wheels vs. older far less efficient T-series. IMO Garrett GT-series BB turbos, ie GTXXR, are the BEST although more expensive. The biggest advantages over T-series turbos are 400-600rpm faster spool up, 2-3% increase in turbine efficiency(worth 25% reduction in turbine inertia), and dramatic reduction in thrust and load bearing failures especially when starved for oil even for short periods of time or during a fast shutdown.

Mishap

Shadow's compressor...pretty much identical to on_alert's but I just wanted to post a pic b/c they are very large and very annoying to find an air filter for.

T3/T04S 60-1 Compressor 4" inlet and 2.5" outlet


Sadler's T3/T04E Compressor...~2.75" or 3" inlet(I forget exactly) and 2.25 outlet


Sadler's spools faster but since Shadow is automatic he can load the engine more so his spools almost as fast.

pawnstar12

i get full boost at 3500 ish and i have a T3/T4 turboneticts big shaft with a .63 AR

on_alert

when i was running my setup, I had a non BB t4/t04e which spooled up very quickely.

I think our cars are right on the line between straight t4 and a larger hybrid t3/t4. I dont think you can go wrong with either.

-ctn

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

However, with the GTs, you can crank up the boost on a comparable size to a T3/T4 and not choke at higher boost. The wheel aerodynamics are far more efficient especially when you start overworking them.

Why are you guys buying Turbonetics? They're definitely not the best out there and now that the price of the GTs and HKS(same as GT) have come down, I don't see why.

Anybody found a company using GT wheels with a T-series CHRA and/or housings? I wonder if it's possible.

[QUOTE=on_alert]

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

I don't think that many people are buying Turbonetics. Only the ones with kits.

I'm personally not a big fan of Turbonetics, it's just Garrett parts at a markup. They used to be popular when Garrett wasn't directly selling turbos to the aftermarket, but now that Garrett is, there really isn't much reason to get a Turbonetics. They're pretty expensive and aren't the best performing at their price points, and the technology is not really cutting edge.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, you're right Shadow.

We need a "tuner option" kit that lets you pick your own fuel management and turbo.

I wonder if PFI would do that.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I like the GT 30/35

And icy, I am trying to work something along that lines out. Hopefully this will bring us into the true turbo "kit" realm. But with my luck, it will not work out.

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

can you guys post your turbos and specs ,a/r and trims and when it starts spooling,when you get full boost and when torque starts falling,, that'll be great

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

t3/t4 h3 trim. .63 exhaust and .63 compressor
Starts spooling at 1500rpm, fullboost by 2400rpm.

Dixit

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

when does it start choking dixit and is it bb and where did you get it from,,, btw thnx for your response

h2kFrosty

iTrader: (3)

this should make you wet yourself more. Here's a video of inside my car, I have the same turbo that BigDogJonx has, a t3/t04e turbonetics turbo... and I was running about 10psi in this video http://68.224.178.194/~ceasar/MOV01506.MPG

Bryan

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

You dont have the same turbo as I do. I picked out this particular one. You got whatever Hal gave you.

Dixit

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

pawnstar12

i got my turbo for $700 new and i thought it was a great deal so i got it. i know that the GT series are much better but i didnt have the $$$$ for it yet. i will be upgrading next year,

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'm not saying the T-series T3/T4 aren't good by any means ESPECIALLY for low boost, which is pretty much anything below 15-20psi from what I've read. Just that if you're spending the extra $$$$ for a "BB Upgrade", make sure you get the real deal and ESPECIALLY the GT wheels. Whether it's single, dual, or tripple ball-bearing isn't as important as the aerodynamic new wheels.

The GTs will be far more efficient, however until we get someone to dyno say 10psi with a T3/T4 or straight T4 and then to swap to a comparable size GT, we don't know how much of a difference it makes POWERWISE below 10-15psi. I know above 15psi, the GTs hold their efficiency, while the T3/T4 efficiency plummets. However, most here will never see that psi range, so it doesn't really matter.

Prodeje79

I just realized that Garrett was part of Honeywell..............

One of my friends works for them. I wonder if they can get me a deal on a garrett turbo.

So if I were to order this "ideal" garret GT turbo........
So what is the major difference between:
Garrett GT30R

Garrett GT35/40R

Which one would be the ulimate?
Do people have different opinions if the money does not matter?
I guess everyone is going to have a different opinion and not all the options have been used in the tubo max community. Can we come to an agreement here? :>

what exactly would I need to say if I got one of these turbos directly though Garrett?
Do I need to know what outlet and inlet and compressor and a/r and all that to place an order or is that all set and is identical on each Garrett GT30R and Garrett GT35/40R respecively?

What exhaust housing style would I need: Standard_GT or T3T4_DropIn ?

Maybe I can just get a price list hehe. What specific 3rd turbo should I try to get a price on besides the Garrett GT30R and Garrett GT35/40R?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Unless he works in Torrance, CA, don't hold your breath. If he does, let me know, since I have "a friend" that works there.

The GT30R is *PERFECT* on the compressor side IMO, since at 13psi it's on the right hand side of the most efficient island(PR=~2, CAF=~35), which means at <6400rpm it's operating accross that most efficient island. If you crank up the boost, then your operating range moves upward and slightly to the right, which is still in the most efficient island. However, it's a little small on the turbine side for our 3L@6400rpm with about 13-15psi and I fear slip loses from too large a difference in compressor-to-turbine diameter.

The GT35/40R is WAY way too big IMO on the compressor side for <15psi. At lower RPM you'll be out of the best efficiency island. Turbine side is also BIG if you're looking for quick spool-up, however the advantage is the higher efficiency which will improve the engines VE due to less back pressure. It would work pretty good on our engine, much like Kev and Shadows 60-1 turbo, where it hits like a freight truck at 3500-4500rpm, however with the GT wheels/BB, it could hit a lot sooner. I don't know. I would love to see a dyno of it on a VQ. Definitely, the turbo for someone looking for much more then 400+whp.

Now, for my *HYPOTHETICAL* GT30/35R I hope Garrett offers as part of its standard lineup, you'd have the PERFECT match on the compressor side, ie the GT30R, with the more efficient 74% vs. 72% GT35R turbine. Now, according to Garrett, a 2% increase in turbine efficiency is equivalent to a 25% reduction in turbine inertia. I'm not sure if this is true, but I'd *GUESS*timate based on turbine wheel diameter, that you'd only be increasing around 12-15% by switching to the GT35R turbine. Turbine efficiency is based on A LOT of factors, however a 2% efficiency increase is going to help spoolup and increase engine VE by reducing backpressure. Plus, the slip losses would be kept at a minimum using the general trade-off rule of keeping the compressor to turbine diameter difference to <15%.

Not sure if anybody can answer that. First, we don't have enough data/dynos collected to know much. Second, people have a different preference. Some want SUPER quick spoolup and don't mind sacrificing topend. Others, want a rocket thrust in torque in the mid range with a endless topend and don't mind sacrificing spoolup. Me myself, I want the most EFFICIENT turbo currently available, which if picked right will have a good balance of quicker spoolup, good topend, strong thrust in the midrange, and not stress the intercooler/engine by heating up the air excessively. These are all DIRECTLY related to the efficiency of a turbo.

Garretts' "current lineup" offers a few options on compressor/turbine ARs. You can find them in the catalog available at www.turbobygarrett.com. However, not everything that's available is listed and you can always get HKS or someone to slap together whatever combination you want as long as the family/series is interchangeable.

For the PFI kit, you'll want T3T4_DropIn, I'm pretty sure. Double check the inlet/outlet and bolt patterns with PFI to make sure they use the right flanges/downpipe you'll need.

www.atpturbo.com has some good ones.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Really great analysis, Icey.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I try to stay out, since I'm biased and have a skewed "engineer efficiency" view.

T-series were great for their time, but the new GTs are revolutionary and I personally can't ignore that over price especially now that they're getting cheap.

I can't wait for 42V electrical systems and the electrically assisted variable geometry nozzle turbines that will soon follow.

Can anyone see the future with electric hybrid vehicles with electrically assisted direct injection diesel turbocharged engines? You'd get PEAK torque off the line with the electric motors, then the motor controller dumps the remaining power into the electric assisted turbo for spoolup or large throttle change response, yet you have the fuel efficiency of the direct diesel injection.

Sorry..bit OT.

pawnstar12

that is true ice. my goal is 14psi and you know how that goes,14psi then......17psi then......20psi. so the GT will be my next X-mas present

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

You better have a built motor in there somewhere.

pawnstar12

of course, im thinking about only keepin the stock rods if i stay around 14psi.
but i want 8.5:1 pistons insted of the 9:1 ones

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'd go either:
A)VQ35 short-block with SGP pistons.
or
B)VQ35 rods/crank in your VQ30 with custom pistons for your CR of choice.

Either way, you're going to pay for pistons.

pawnstar12

thanks for the help

Danny95

what about this turbo?ct26 supra turbo 7mgte ct-26 turbocharger