Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

im running a JWT ECu with 370cc injectors. this weekend i swapped it out and put my stock ECU in, it pulled so much harder, so this is what im planning to do

JWT ECU with stock ignition timing, 8k redline, 12:1 A/F ratio, and then run the J&S Safeguard to retard timing


previous setup
JWT ECU with retarded ingition timing(have no idea how much) 8k redline, 11:1 A/F ratio,

what do you think? JWT always says im crazy and stupid to run stock timing. when i put the stock ECU in, i didnt get any detonation but it was on a cold day. I think im fine with the newly reprogrammed JWT with the richer 12:1 A/F ratio and J&S Safeguard if needed.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Do it~!

I've seen SR20DE-T guys go the same route and gain 10-15hp through out with the stock ECU.

As I'm sure you know JWT is overly conservative and you can't change what they've picked as safe. Plus, it's RPM dependent NOT boost dependent like the J&S. Also, the J&S can retard PER CYLINDER vs. the JWT accross all cylinders.

J&S is the way to go vs. JWT or eManage(even if possible) IMO.

maxlinegtr

iTrader: (3)

So gettin the J&S is a better alternative then the JWT? what is the best set up? I confused

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Yeah, I think you're probably right. The only advantage to JWT is the extended redline, which is very good to have with a supercharger and MEVI.

Turbocharged engines tend to be more low-midrange rpm beasts (comparatively speaking), so high revving isn't so important.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Depends on if you need bigger then 370cc injectors and max out the A32 MAF.

Unless you go with an eManage and MAP sensor, the JWT is going to be cheaper then J&S+eManage, but it's worth it still IMO to have the user programmable features and superior J&S detonation control.

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

I'm going to be trying out the eManage and MAP sensor soon. Had the car on the dyno today after I just put in the 370's. Having issues getting the injector harness to work. Everytime we turn on the additional injection program, the emanage errors.

Current setup is 370 injectors, eManage, Cartech FMU. We tuned it to 12:1 today on the dyno, it's a pretty smooth A/F line even without being able to run the injector maps on the eManage. I've maxed out the MAF though, on the emanage log, the MAF voltage shows that it's maxed out. Car is putting down 267 whp at 6 psi (auto) which works out to around 340 crank hp which is near the stated limit for the A32 MAF.

On a humorous note, the first pull my car made today was without lowering the fuel pressure to compensate for the 370's, and the car put down a whopping 93.2 whp and we filled the shop with clouds of black smoke.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Awesome...

Sx7r is the one to talk with about how to work eManage with bigger injectors...except he hasn't tuned it yet. YOU might be the pioneer here. Could you get to the 240cc->370cc option? Or were you getting errors before that?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

How does the MAP sensor work with the MAF on the eManage?

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

That is the problem. The page opens up and all that, and I can enter the conversions, but the emanage warning light starts flashing and it throws error codes for an input voltage error. So I can't get them to work. All we ended up doing was taking the conversion factor displayed by the emanage and applying it to the airflow controls so we basically took out about 40% across the board to compensate. Seems to be working for now, car pulls hard and idles fine. The only issue is cold start where it floods a little. But at idle, the ECU itself compensates for the injectors and keeps A/F right at 14.7 and on the dyno we're at 12:1.

I would like to get the injector harness up so I can fine tune the fuel map, right now it is still pretty rough.

As for the MAP sensor, I'm not even sure how it works. I'm told that it basically takes the place of the MAF to measure airflow and the emanage unit converts it to the proper voltages. We'll just have to find out I guess.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Did you try dropping the base idle pressure to 26-27psi from 34psi?

Hmmnnn...that's news to me. I wonder if 4th gens are different. My 5th gen goes Open-Loop at startup/warmup or are you saying idle goes stoch after car is warmed up?

Contact sx7r and see if he has any tips.

Hmmmnnnnn...I don't know either. I'm betting it simulates an in-range MAF voltage, while just adding/subtracting pulse-width according to your 16x16 fuel map. Without the injector harness, that's not possible. With the injector harness, the max fuel it can add is limited by the A32 MAF. If all else fails, you could try the "MAF hack" method though.

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

Still have the stock FPR. I was trying to see if the emanage could control the injectors at idle. I hear differing opinions, and nothing like first hand experience. But I'm told that the conversion it does applies to idle as well.

It goes stoich after warmup. When we first cranked up the car cold, it was 13.5/1 and the fumes were really bad. But it goes to 14.7/1 after warmup.

That's what I'm thinking, that it's just another conversion. I'm hoping to get the injector harness sorted out very soon and then we'll try the MAP and pressure sensor. I would really like to try the ignition harness, but I'm a little nervous after Dixit melted a coil pack and Cory's problems with getting it to function right. I have it, just don't want to install it yet.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I didn't think the Cartech could help that. I believe the eManage can help during startup/warmup when in OPEN-loop, since the stock ECU uses the same fuel map, except with an additional "injection pulse duration" that adds more pulse width. The eManage "larger injector" variable most likely just kicks in to reduce pulse width during cold starts.

The eManage can *ONLY* change open-loop signals, since once the stock ECU goes CLOSED-loop, it's going to correct according to the feedback signal from the front 02s and override any tampering from the eMange.

Yeah, definitely open-loop.

I'd wait until Greddy releases the "new" harness for the 350z, then you can play with timing. However, I still say J&S is better.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

I'll be re-doing his harness Friday night...we actually ran it for about 30 minutes with the harness(and in-line diodes) (w/ no timing pulled) and we drove around for a while...NO burnt coils, but we did have a slight fluctuating idle...we'll just have to see this weekend. and we came to the conclusion that the CELs WERN'T related to the ignition harness, rather some other underlying probs which are being taken care of tonight

I heard you mention the addj. injec program, not sure what you were reffering it to...but remember you ONLY use this feature to ADD fuel when compensating with stock injectors...addj. map can't take away. only use to airflow map to adjust for your 370s

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

Yeah, that's the plan. Use the airflow map to take away fuel and the use the injector map to add fuel/smooth everything out. I don't think there are going to be huge gains with the fine tuning of the injector map, but on my dyno at least, there are some spots that could use a little smoothing out.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I'm ghey.. still stock Ecu and injectors



from stephen's post I was thinking the same thing about the stock timing on the JWT with a 7200, 555's, z maf, and J&S. The j&s seems to be able to do 3 times what I thought it could. i spent a little time reading on their website last night. It was informative.

Now, the question is do the JWT with a SAFC 2, 1 setting for daily driving and another for race gas/WI days.

or

Emange

Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

honestly id rather go Emanage but ive stayed away because of people having probs and stuff.


Jim at JWT always plays childish guilt trips on me that i really get sick of. we went over in circles about stuff we've discussed before. finally he said write a letter saying what i want done and that im crazy and he hung up...cool. nice guy

the J&S can retard timing on closed and open loop correct?

Chunger

iTrader: (1)

J&S doesn't sense/use the TPS...

It goes by RPM, boost, Knock... so the answer is both modes...

maxlinegtr

iTrader: (3)

So the best is using both the J&S and the JWT and maybe even the the emanagement? Would that be over kill? Or just use a little of each in its own relm of different functions? It seems to me that each of those devices may obscure their own individual functions.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I have read all of what you've gone through with them.. sorry


I have seen what dixit is going through. And the simplicity of the "plug and play" of the JWT appeals to me.

I have yet to contact them on it. I am just trying to get my **** in order and figure out what I want and see if that is what is best.

From what I have seen on the emanage, the data logging is superb!!!

However I have a few questions about wether there is erronous data for the MAF and Injector duty cycle.

I did not figure this out, dixit informed me of it being a possiblity.

But with anythign new there are going to be issues. Heck matt figured out all the j&s stuff for us.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

Shadow, I just re-red your first post...you are using the Emanage and an FMU in conjunction or are you just using the FMU until you get the injector harness wokring?? and anyways what probs are you having with it?

Mishap

He had the FMU in while the car was running factory injectors. Haven't taken it out nor have we even bothered to put in his fuel pressure gauge. Neither of us has much time w/ the E-manage install taking a bit longer than expected. It is dialed all the way down so it's base fuel pressure is much lower.

As for the problems w/ the injector harnes...I only had the crappy Haynes manual to go by for tapping the injector wires so it seems I might have tapped the wrong wires causing the E-manage to throw error codes whenever the injector harness is activated.

Other than that the car runs fine w/ just the airflow adjustment. Just dropped the air flow 40% to account for the injectors and the A/F looks pretty good and just a bit rich for safety. Still more tuning to be done...once he gets rid of the factory cat we think he can break 300whp ~7psi.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

well heres the diagram from Hals site...basically if its anything like the 99, the injectors should be in the first group...I know on Coreys it went in a diagonal pattern(but then again the 99 ECU plugs are toally different I think)

my guess is(based on this pic http://www.fastmaxima.com/images/dia...0SAFC%20II.jpg ):
inj 1-102 or 101
inj 2-109 or 102
inj 3-103 or 109
inj 4-110 or 110
inj 5-104 or 117
inj 6-111 or 118

EDIT: if you search I think there was a thread a few months ago where Stephenmax or someone was talking about how they ECU can control 8 injectors or something and they posted a diagram of the ECU and compared the pins to the each injector it controls...you might wanna look for that

just a guess though...like I said the 99 harness is slightly different I think...if you want, this weekend I'll post the FSM diagram for the 99 injector/ECU connectios if that'll help

Shadow

iTrader: (15)

Yes, both right now. Had the FMU first, now have the emanage and 370's. I think I'm going to keep the FMU in there to provide some headroom as the boost goes up. The limit of 370's is what, around 350whp at factory fuel pressure? I figure if I exceed that, I can use the Cartech to dial in a little more fuel and clean it up with the emanage. All this stuff was relatively inexpensive when weighed against 550's.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

If you have a 95-96 ECU, you have the JWT option for a metered airflow system using a Z32 or Cobra MAF. For the rest of us, hopefully eManage with a MAP sensor will be our saving grace for 350+bhp. Otherwise, we're stuck with a FMU or maybe some kind of hacked MAF setup.

You can use the J&S with either the JWT or Emanage, however you can't use the Emanage ignition harness/timing map with the J&S since they'll conflict.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Good setups IMO for STOCK CR VQs…
95-96 ECU w/JWT option:
<350bhp
1)FMU
2)AFC for AFR fine tuning.
350-400bhp
1)JWT programmed with 7200 redline, Z32 MAF, 370cc or 4XXcc injectors, Aquamist WI, and retarded timing
2)AFC for AFR fine tuning.
3)Aquamist WI
4)370cc-4XXcc injectors
400+bhp
1)JWT programmed with 7200 redline, Cobra MAF, 550cc injectors, Aquamist WI, advanced timing until FULL BOOST and then stock timing until redline.
2)AFC for AFR fine tuning.
3)J&S Safeguard
4)Aquamist WI
5)NISMO 550cc injectors

98+ ECU:
<350bhp
1)FMU
2)AFC for AFR fine tuning.
350-400bhp
1)eManage with MAP sensor and timing harness(or J&S)
2)Timing harness if works, if not, J&S Safeguard
3)Aquamist WI
4)PE 380cc or RC 440cc injectors
400+bhp
1)eManage with MAP sensor and NO timing harness
2)J&S Safeguard
3)Aquamist WI
4)PE 510cc or RC 550cc injectors

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

On a side note, does anyone know if JWT has the ability to retard timing and throw in a bunch of fuel between shifts?

WRC guys do it to keep the turbo spooled up.

Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

If JWT didnt raise the rev limiter, i think Emanage would be the way to go, espically if the igniton harness worked with retarding your timing, that would be great..

guys that is running 400+hp...are they on the stock MAF?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I think with the right turbo, you don't need the higher rev limiter. Yes, you can go with a bigger turbo and get more peak hp, but most have stock internals and can't handle more.

Guys running with the A32 MAF above 350bhp are using a FMU for more fuel via pressure, since the MAF flow/injector duty cycle are maxed out.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

just curious why you say use the J&S over the Emanage's timing retard capabilities?(granted it eventually works 100%)

my other concern with Emanage is that the stock MAF is still maxing out...although the pressure sensor can read and scale higher than the stock MAF, the Emanage is still reading from the MAF and I've still yet to see how it does any compensation for the MAF when it reaches its peak voltage...I'm not saying it doesn't, but I've yet to find a clear explanation. seeing as how the airflow map(to take away fuel) is strictly based on TPSxRPM and makes adjustments to t he MAF signal, where does the Greddy MAP come into play?? how can it when te point of the airflow map is strictly MAF manipulation? matter of fact in the airflow adjustment map, you can't even scale it in Psi. I'm starting to believe the pressure sensor is only good for scaling the maps in PSI when using the additional injector or ignition tables...but I've been confused on this for a while so I'm in the same boat if everyone else is stumped...now whos confused after reading that

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

I went with the JWT for the raised limiter! Dam thing screams with boost at 7200. Having a relativly stable base fuel pressure is the second reason, a must for wet nitrous. Third is the Z32MAF w/larger injectors, plug and play. I have an Profec E01 so I may go E-manage or use a wide band and monitor it with the E01. JWT gets the tuning close, but safe, using the Emanage to push it closer to the edge is the best option I can see. JWT does have boosted programs for 100oct & 110oct. I was thinking that the 100oct program might be a good in combination with the J&S?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Als, you can use the z32 MAF with the e-manage on a Max. You just have to switch the settings, IIRC.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

and basically I think that is still what guys are gonna have to do...whether using the Greddy pressure sensor or not! cause as of now I don't see this "compensation" for overshooting the stock MAF voltage works

pawnstar12

i just chipped my boys h22a ecu with a spoon chip that he got off of ebay for freaking $28. his speed limiter is now off and his vtec kicks in at 4800 rpm. now my question is; WHAT THA F*CK! why dont we have easy ways out like these honda guys. ecu programing is tricky but a different IC chip should be able to raise our redline then we can use j&s setups with an e manage or a fmu with an afc. and its cheaper. jwt are as*holes

subs1000w

our ecus cant be chiped theres no socket to put the new chip. blame nissan for that

pawnstar12

when i chipped the H22 i had to pull the main IC chip solder a 20 something pin socket in the eye lets and then pop the new chip in. it was 45 minutes worth of work. i think if all of us put or heads together we can figure it out.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

even if you do that...who has a developed/working rom editor to edit the VQ maps...or who even knows the how to decipher the addresses in the ECU program to convert anything to a readable bin file....you guys could see how the Z32 ECU matches up...then attempt run the Zemulator, like Aaron is doing for the VE guys

C MAX

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=Turbo95Max]im running a JWT ECu with 370cc injectors. this weekend i swapped it out and put my stock ECU in, it pulled so much harder, so this is what im planning to do

JWT ECU with stock ignition timing, 8k redline, 12:1 A/F ratio, and then run the J&S Safeguard to retard timing


you know i noticed the same thing. with the jwt ecu the cars initial pull seems slugish compared to stock. my theory is i think its dumping more fuel to keep you from detonating. i think when you run lean you get more HP, but its dangerous for us FI people..

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I bet it does, but most don't have that option. I just think if the eManage can take care of >350bhp(A32 limit), it's not worth $500+ just for that...to me anyways, but others it probably is kind of like the MEVI debate.

100octane program OR have JWT program for your Aquamist. SR20 guys have a JWT program that turns on the Aquamist along with advancing timing and leaning out fuel.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Now that would be nice, wonder if that would work for 2K+ with the Pathfinder MAF or something.

pawnstar12

yeah that can be a route i wanna learn about that some more