Bags

iTrader: (3)

WOW!!!

EDIT RAMIUS83's car

Mods once again...

370 injectors, 3 inch cat back, T4 BB, MEVI ZIP TIED OPEN, SAFC, 10PSI

The blue one is 11 PSI spike

Red is solid 10 PSI

HP


TQ

Bags

iTrader: (3)

My dyno's

3inch cat back, t3/t4, USIM EDIT 7 PSI



HP



TQ

slizan99

iTrader: (1)

those are great numbers bags.

|Bijan|

iTrader: (12)

hoy damn!!!!!!!!1

hell yea brothas!

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Congrats once again to both of you. 400 is a very nice number Let's see both of you get better and better

Blu

iTrader: (63)

Wow the 11 psi spike looks like it might have been misfiring or something. And bags your car has come a long way. I remember yours and dixits runs in the high 9's in the 1/8th at like 74mph. I predict looking at those curves mid/high 8's @ 81-82. Nice going guys

craaaazzy

pretty nice...bags u can plot both hp and torque on the same graph. take the hp graph and then add the torque on the right side (where it says "none")

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

no that graph is right. We have our Boost controllers set like that so when it spikes the car drops boost immediately, corrects it and comes back and boost what we want it to boost. Basically knocs 7% of the spike back down.

Blu

iTrader: (63)

ahhhh thanks for clearing that up ...when is your dyno day setup for turbo and sleepy

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Your welcome! I gave Eric some settings but little that I know that I got him 65% of his fuel tuned just about right. Thats the 3rd time something like that happened. Last time I plugged some numbers into someones SAFC they went and dynoed 12:1 AFR, After two runs they had to unstrap the car and go home because the SAFC numbers were perfect. I know my numbers are good, my FP is set a bit too high. 15PSI too much. Thats all I have to adjust on my car and I should be good. I may dyno this Friday if I get a chance.

Blu

iTrader: (63)

Nice maybe one of these decades I can make it to GA too see all the boosted maximas popping up everywhere. That SSR kit is looking good for the 02-03's, so maybe I can join the ranks in the near future

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

we didnt meet up last time. My sister now lives up there so if I do drive up there, Ill let you know so we can meet up for sure

Jaime

|Bijan|

iTrader: (12)

Jay and I did a lil racin last nite woow owo

Mishap

Hmm, I was pretty close on the correction factor. I'd go w/ the 394 # since it's more accurate and comparable to everyone else's but 6whp isn't a big deal.

Can you send me the run files? I want to do some comparisons on torque etc. I probably won't get down to Batlground until tomorrow. Just want to do some overlays so I can learn more info on turbo sizing, spool time etc. Email is: justin.kuo@evolution-autodesign.com

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Yeah good call ont he correction factor and I just posted the actual numbers so everyone could see them. I am sticking with my actual to get the extra 5 hp/tq.. if I had 390~ I would not sweat it..lol


I'll send them tonight after I get off work

Bijan-it's going to get better

jake- thanks

Tatanko- thanks, the plan is 300 before may

blu- yeah things have come a long way.. thank you The goal is 13's.. no matter if it is 13.9 or 13.1. I want 110 MPH traps however We will see how things go. I have some work I need to do before the summer. And boost that ****. Maybe one of these days we can havea large meet in the middle

fred- I never knew that thanks... I hope to see you around the way soon

Jay- I'll call you tonight.. gotta a few things I would like to do with your help

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Man that 7psi graph with the USIM is solid almost to redline. No major dropage there. Interesting.

Dixit

Bags

iTrader: (3)

But the GAIN from the MEVI would be another 20+ whp.

Look for Ians most recent dyno in this forum and our dyno's are very similar until 5300 rpm.

Then he smokes me like a pack of newports.

Julio

This must be running a Z MAFS right? Anyway. I am running 370s with my Z MAFS. Is there anyway you could help me with my s-afc II settings? I am pretty sure that the 3rd gen MAFS and 4th gen MAFS have the same hp limit as far as voltage goes, so I dont think there would be any problems.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

STOCK mafs suprisingly.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

unless we share the same setups, I cant help you. I go by my EGTs. After monitoring them very well, I know exactly if my car is lean or too rich. I leave it a bit rich so I have room to fine tune it when I put it up on the dyno. both cars that I plugged SAFC numbers had the same or identical setups.


Sorry

Julio

Nah, its all good. I just havent made it to a dyno or gotten a wide band yet. Just looking for a easy route to get a little leaner than i am safely, thats all. But anyways, where is your egt probe? Mines right at the manifold where the front bank collects. Just wanted to know what you tune to. 1450?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Jay,

Why would you do that? Is it because you have the gain set really high, so it spools up as fast as possible, but then you dump a lot of pressure once you hit 10psi to keep from overspiking too much?

I mean that's ugly. The first spike on the graph hits 250whp, drops to 200whp, spikes to 280whp, drops to 230whp, spikes almost 100whp to 340whp, drops to 280whp.

That's 50whp, 80whp, 50whp, 100whp, and 40whp spikes, which isn't very nice on your turbo/engine/drivetrain and I can only imagine what the AFR looked liked as the ECU tried to keep up.

It may be more then the EBC settings IMO, however IF you guys want quick spool up, the gain must be set high like 83(Kevs' 60-1) or at least 50+ for a BB T4. However, the boost ratio has to be kept low to keep from overshooting too far, like 19(Kev). Then the limiter ratio, percent dumped around 5(-5)(Kev) or lower to keep the WG from opening/slaming shut/opening/slaming shut/etc..

What are the BC settings and what BC was he using?

Don't get me wrong...those are SICK numbers. I'm just concerned/surprised at the shape of that power curve. I haven't seen something like that, but who knows maybe that's normal.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Alex it can happen on the Blitz SBCID boost controllers, he had the gain set very high, I believe higher than 80. What happens is that it spools quick and spikes, when it spikes he has it set to pull back 10%, so it pulls back about 1.1psi each time and then spools up again and pulls back. Thats the reason.

Once he lowered the gain to about 60-65 I believe he ran a much smoother curve because the turbo wasnt spooling so quick that the boost contoller couldnt keep up with it.

Dixit

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

we had it set to 83%, I dynoed 325 using those settings. The reason why his graph looks like that is due to spiking. The Bitz knocks like 10%(you set this yourself) of the spike and then it spools up back again very fast and thats the rise you see. In reality I hate that ****. I lost a short race to an 03 Cobra. We were neck and neck and my crap spiked and for that short .5 sec I lost a 1/2 length on him, caught him and once again spike car loses some power for a minute. Weather has alot to do with spiking. When is somewhat warm my turbo does not spike like it does now that is cold. We set it back down to 63% something like that. When you lower the number you get a smooth flow of boost. It will still spike, but I still blame the weather. Lets put it this way, with the SCer I lay the slam my foot on the gas pedal all the way down. With the turbo fck that you cant do that. I have to slowly press on the gas if not it will boost so fast it will bost to 12plus PSI instantly thats why I dyno tuned to 11.5 to 1.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

It pulls back 1.1 psi and you lose 40-100 hp??? That's incredible.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I understand totally Jay.

Again, that's all BC or WG issues.

Gain = 83 is too high for that fast of a turbo probably and it overshoots the limit. On the Blitz DSBC Type R or whatever I've played with, the gain was what effected the spoolup primarily, however the Boost Ratio(BR) is the "target" percent of MAXIMUM capacity the turbo can flow. If the MAX is 20psi...lets say and you set it for 50(50%?), then the BC is 'aiming', ie partitioning how much pressure to WG is needed in total, for 10psi and the gain is controlling how fast you get to that 10psi. Now you're concerned about overshooting the 10psi limit, because the turbo builds boost so fast the BC can't react fast enough to open the Waste Gate in time and release pressure.

My question is, what is your Boost Ratio(BR)?

If that's set too high the BC will overshoot EVEN if you set the GAIN pitifully low, ie 5-10. Trust me...that's what I did and it was lag bish, however once it got going, it would overshoot by 2-3psi because I had the BR set too high.

Just something to try, so you don't keep spiking once you hit the warning/peak boost, it dumps until it falls below the warning, then overshoots because it's 'aiming' too high.

Like I said, it may NOT be the BC...it could be something else. I'm just pretty sure *THAT* much spiking isn't normal. IF it is, someone please show me. Bags dyno didn't, right? Yeah, he's not as high, but still you should see SOMETHING wavy right?

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I do not have ANY from Of Boost Controller. That was with the spring in the wastegate set @ 7 PSI.


Also, his MEVI was ziptied open.

those dips **could** have been aided by that. I may be incorrect.

Maybe KS detecting knock?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Oops~!

Yeah, could be something else...but IMHO, it's got to be something abnormal.

I mean hell, like Jay said, that's a noticeable difference and the BC can be set to be "smoother" in how it releases/builds/releases without dropping 50whp, then gain it back, drop, gain it back. That's too much lost hp/tq in the dips.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

I d say 20-40Hp. And you feel it when it drops. Also when you race a car like Ramius83, when he spikes it sounds like a freight train releasing that pressurized exhaust into the atmosphere it sounds like pssshhhhh, pshhhhhhhhhh pshhhhhhhhhh, very very loud. I happens to me all the times.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Joaquins sounds more like one long CONSTANT fart.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Icey this is my dyno when I dynoed at 9.7PSI, I did spike to 9.8 on one of these runs. Here is one of them. The current settings that Eric had on his 400HP run I had the same 83% and I dont have those big dips

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Damn 30-second timer....this is in reguard to Ramius dyno.

What changed between the RED and BLUE runs besides 1psi? MEVI change at all? After the 3rd spike around 4800 especially?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmnnn...now yours looks familiar.

Either his WG/BC isn't hooked up correctly or it's something else?

Ramius83

ICE: It is a vacuum leak around that area that is causing all the commotion. I have found it, but I just haven't had time to fix it.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Around what area? The wastegate/BC connections?

Ramius83

Yeah, right around there. The turbo itself has a vacuum fitting on the compressor, but the fitting has stripped out, so I blocked it off. Some of the lines on the wastegate/BC are too big on the T-connectors and also, they aren't zip-tied, go figure LOL. When I fix that and get my idle Hg good, then I will re-dyno.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Well its also half the wastegaste's fault too cause the BC its fighting it. When you have a leak the size of a 1" hole in the exhaust being opened up which feeds the turbo, it causes a major loss of that nature as you can see on the dyno.

Hard to believe it but on a turbo with a BC its easy to do.

Dixit

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Cool...let me know when you do incase I miss your post.

Good to know what symptoms look like incase I run into them one day too.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

What is the accuracy of most EBC's? Wouldnt a spike of less than xx% be acceptable. At 10psi wouldnt 5% or 0.5psi be acceptable? Or is it more like 1%. Ive seen 11.4psi with a 11psi setting and gain at 10 with my E01, it didnt bother me. I guess at 14psi it might be an issue.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Depends on many factors(turbo, distance solenoids are from waste gate, BC type, EBC settings, etc.) and varies A LOT between different controllers. I read a good boost controller comparison in Turbo&High-Tech Performance and each controller had it's own characteristics. Some opened too soon, to prevent ANY overshoot. Some overshoot then undershoot, then overshoot and keep getting closer and closer to the set limit. Some overshoot and gradually come down to the set limit. And a bunch of other combinations/variations.

I've seen 2psi on a 5-6psi setup, which is too much IMO UNLESS you know this and set your limit to compensate. I think <1psi is what very good EBCs that are "properly" configured should be able to handle.

Also, some people want the initial spoolup as fast as possible, so they set the gain high to get maximum delay before the BC allows any pressure to the wastegate to start opening. This gives the BC less time to react, the wastegate less time to open, and the pressure less time to stablize. So, the owner typically sets the boost limit lower, say 10psi vs. 12psi, to allow the 2psi overshoot initially. However, he's also giving up 2psi after the inital surge, but they feel the "put you back into your seat" feel is more important then peak power/psi.