yeah, i agree with icey on those clamps

also, is this the oil return line?


i think that is too low on the oil pan

 

Actually, he's using a Mocal scavenge pump and that's a PERFECT location since the pickup is in the rear, right? You don't want the hot oil exposed to air and as far from the pickup as possible.

Plus, no tapping or removing the oil pan. Pretty slick solution IMO.

 

T-bolts are overkill for low boost cars since blowing off pipes is unlikely. They add unnecessary cost since 2 of them cost as much as an entire kit worth of worm clamps. They also don't have much range of adjustment and just annoying to use IMO. W/ properly designed and beaded piping there is no way you can blow off a properly installed pipe w/ worm clamps at these boost levels.

Having dealt w/ putting together both Sadler and Shadow's cars...T-bolt clamps are definitely an extravagance. I mean Sadler went back and had the damned things chromed. Worm clamps pull it off and I'd prefer to see that money invested in better wastegates or fuel management.

Pushing for a non-IC version seems like a waste of time and resources. A basic IC turbo kit will cover a very wide range of cars as it is and it would save development time along w/ simplify the number of parts.

Quite honestly if you can't afford to spring for an IC you don't need to be turbocharging your car. You're gonna need it in the near future and basically most of your charge pipe system will be wasted along w/ the extra cost etc of going back in to install it. The Maxima isn't exactly a Honda Civic. No matter how high quality the SSR kit is(and the Altima kit does look very well made) SSR probably couldn't sell a thousand of them even if they were under 2 grand a kit. There are also considerations of how to mount the turbo w/ and w/o an IC and I'd prefer to have the kit optimized for an IC since that's more oriented toward higher power.

To compete in the low end pricing on the VQ30 market, you'd have to fight the hordes of Stillen blowers already out there and on their 3rd-4th owners. Non-IC superchargers are capable of pushing 300whp and gently used ones can come in far below even the most basic turbo kit.

Trying to fill in both T3 hybrid and straight T4 turbos also up the costs. It's much cheaper to stock one model turbo than 4-5 different variations b/c people want to vary their spool time by a little bit or have bragging rights. Even a smaller T3/T4 turbo is capable of pushing a stock block Max beyond the breaking point. I mean offering both T3 and T4's mean having to make different size downpipes, flanges, etc which would significantly increase development time and cost.

I do of course like the idea of nicely TIG welded stainless steel pipes and well integrated fuel system. If such a high quality kit were available at the time, I probably would have pushed Shadow for one of those rather than develop a system on our own.

To mass produce a kit successfully is to play the numbers. That's why you won't find a bolt-on T78 turbo option for Civics even though there are probably more of those out there than all the turbo Maximas combined. A well made T3/T4(GT series) kit w/ IC fits in nicely to allow expandability and price wise.

No matter how many people on this board say they want 400+whp eventually, not a whole lot of them are actually going to get there so trying to make a kit that fits that wide a range is pointless. Anyone who wants that level of power is going to have the resources to do it custom or even by modifying a more basic kit. I mean who's going to build a block and not have access to basic welding equipment. I'm not trying to kill all the enthusiasm...I just think a lot of people don't know what they want and I don't want to see SSR spend all this time to sell 6 kits w/ 5 of them being completely different.

 

The turbo kit I would like to have. But turbo placement where I don't have to put battery in trunk.

- Crossover Pipe
- Intake filter
- 3'' Downpipe
- T3/T4 turbo
- External Wastegate
- Intercooler Pipe
- HKS SSQV BOV
- Spearco Intercooler
- Larger Fuel Injectors
- Piggy Back Fuel Management

 

Well-said Mishap.

 

Like I said minor gripe, however I find worm clamps more a PITA and even T-clamps blow off all the time with 6-7psi. Agree, better piping and "beaded piping" would probably change that, however I'd rather pay for them. Easy to make it an option or just not include them for discount.

I think it's more for people who want to source their own IC, but for <5psi and an entry level kit, it's not required.

I don't think you can not offer both a T3/T4 hybrid and a straight T4. Too many different tastes here.

100% agree. 5XXwhp is a pipe dream from a "bolt-on" kit and 400+whp is not for the faint at heart.

There isn't that much difference besides all the add-ons. Tuner kit is a stripped down verison and the Stage Ia could be dropped if no interest. He'll only really have 3-versions of charge pipes/down tubes/cross over pipes to R&D, ie T3/T4, straight T4s, and GTXX.

The headers are what's going to be interesting to see if people buy.

 

Well, it looks like everything was fine combed in detail. The specifications of this kit will include a very minimal amount of components for A) Tuner Kits and Stage 1a kits. The great thing behind a minimal, functioning turbo kit is plenty of room for upgrade, low cost and easy to work with. A minimal kit makes it more user friendly.

Mishap, and Icey good detail

 

Hey, are you going to be in town over the next couple days?

Can I buy you a beer and chat?

Alex

 

Alex depending on which town your referring to Phoenix or Tucson?

 

Sorry, Tucson.

 

SSR - CHECK YOUR PM~!

We need to get that beer SOON, I've found your donor car.

Just need to figure out the details.

 

Ok all checked, PM sent.

 

Tag your it.

 

We found our donor, and we found a way to save some cash on the 5th gen 3.5 Kit, we are still looking for a 4th gen.

 

If you'd reply or meet up, we *MIGHT* have a 4th gen donor. Just need to work out SPECIFICS on cost minus PFI stuff, etc..

 

welp, i guess today wouldn't be too bad of a day, when and where you name it!

 

I knew you were going to say that~!

I'll PM you my phone number...still haven't seen what the fam is up too, but I *SHOULD* be able to escape tonight or Thurs.

 

waiting....

 

tell me when and where you need me and ill drive down.

 

hello! donor,just pm me with details

 

Hey sorry for missing your post, if you would like to donor please call us at 505 250 7615 during normal business hours, it's alot easier to go over all of the details on the phone then on the comp.

 

Albert,

Check your PMs.

Thanks~!

 

being a turbo newbie, I'd be interested in the stage 0 turbo described earlier. Something easy to maintain that gives ~250hp at wheels. For such a kit, do you still have to get rid of the ypipe? And do the 2.5" cat back systems have to go too? Lastly, does having a technosquare ecu pooch things up any for turbo-equipped maximas?

Yup, turbo newb here. Thanks for your time.

 

How's this kit coming im interested in the basic kit with an intercooler and also how is the manifold that u were talking about eralier coming ?

 

every 6months SSR polls here, nothing ever happens after that; so dont hold your breath.

 

Well reason being is because we are in dire need of a donor car, and it seems impossible to find one legitimate donor. Everyone interested so far has stopped contact/or just totally backed out.

 

just a thought, if you build it, they will come...and you can't build it without a donor, so treat the donor like a McDonalds All-American getting recruited from UCLA, Kansas, Duke and Kentucky. You should consider offering the donor a rental vehicle to accomadate them while they are accomodating you. Also, you should give them a warranty, and the turbo kit shouldn't cost the donor a dime.

If you build it, they will buy it,

lf they buy it, you will profit.

-vq

 

finally one whom understands the works of business management on the higher scale of COMMON SENSE. VQMAN ssr should take the dive on the rental car part and ethicly the donar car kit should be free, but with all things considered they are a small business with little risk resourses. Doing somehting like this can either make them fall or make them rich. business is a calculated risk to make money with money. -$.02

 

A FREE kit isn't going to happen guys...never will.

Cattman is the same way...parts at cost ONLY, that's how these small guys survive or get off the ground. They don't have the R&D cash flow like Stillen, PE, Greddy, or whoever to do something like that. Wish they did though.

Was CMs kit free?

 

Actually if they used a rental car(ie...$30-$40) a day, it would probably be cheaper for them. Because now they wouldn't have to offer anything for cost. But the rental will most likely be a automatic if that matters.

And on the issue of offering stuff for free. Uh, I don't think most people can give away a few thousand dollars of equipment for free. Anyone who thinks they should do it that, doesn't own a shop or has never owned/operated a small business like this.

 

ARGH....I can be quit no longer. And noone can say i never tried to help out the community. Read on you will see.


You guys had a donor car as long as you needed it, and i was willing to ship my car from Fl to you guys(also out of my pocket). The problem was that whenever i talked to someone i was getting different stories on items included on the kit, cost, and other issues. it sounded like noone really knew specifically what they were talking about. Then the stories i got from you guys weren't adding up and you wouldn't call me.
I got the feeling that you guys farm out this work to another shop or even several. You guys surely would have known more about the specifics of the kit if you had done one on an altima. And about the discount you were to give to the donor. I highly doubt the kit cost 3500-4000 to put together. This being the case even though you knew i had all the guages, fuel pump, injectors,etc. needed for this? So remind me how i was getting a break on this kit.
I could be wrong but a shop should be able to put together a kit for around 2k or less. If not then were the hell would you make a profit? I hope for your wallet and stomachs sake you find a donor and get a kit put together. I just think you are way off with cost to the donor being 3,500 -4,000. Or maybe its just that i don't understand enough. If that's the case then i was sorely disappointed in the little info you guys could provide me on the kit itself through the little correspondence we did have.

 

I wish SSR the best of luck finding a "donor" car to for them to experiment on...

You are right, most people can't give away a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment for free. But if they are having so much trouble finding a donor car, maybe they should consider it, because their project will never get off the ground if they never find a donor car.

If SSR pays for the Turbo Kit, they get several benefits:
1) a tax write off -- R&D is a business expense.
2) They get to be in the "5th Gen 3.5L Turbo Market" - and an exclusive market it is.
3) if they do it right, they'll have a very loyal customer.
4) if they show the confidence to pay for the whole thing, people will feel confident buying from them.

If no one offers them their Maxima (because they are a little skeptical about paying $3500 to $4000 for a small company to experiment on their car) they will either have to buy a Maxima, or decide not to get in the Maxima Turbo Biz.

If they want to be in the Maxima Turbo Biz, they might as well do everything they can to get in it.

Sometimes, when you are a start up company, and you KNOW you can do a good job, but people don't trust you, they best way to get your name out there, is to give someone a really good deal, and prove that you have a good product. That will get your name out, and word of mouth is the best advertising of all.

-vq

 

VQMAN,

That's the EXACT argument I've gone around with Cattman on MANY many times.

It doesn't work that way, he knows. What happens is they lose money up front and it takes MANY sales to offset that loss, which honestly with Maximas, isn't a very promising gamble.

Right now, SSR isn't losing anything, so if they don't find a Maxima donor, they'll just concentrate on the other markets like the Altima, G35, Z, Sentra, and S2000 or somebody else. Nothing will be lost, they'll just focus on a different direction. It's of Maxima enthusiasts interest to FIND a donor and get the ball rolling more then it is SSRs. This is a GOLDEN opportunity for Maxima owners NOT SSR. Yes, SSR could benefit, but so would they if they forget the hassle with tight-wad Maxima owners and move on to Evos, DSMs, or Honduhs for that matter.

I feel the same as you do, but small companies WILL NOT do it. Plain and simple.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree on whether or not they would benefit.

I'm sure SSR disagrees with me too, or they would have made the offer.

Good luck on this "GOLDEN" opportunity.

-vq

 

I have to disagree with the fact that it is the Maxima owners that MUST get the ball rolling. Granted, if we want a turbo kit then we must be willing to help meet the potential developer at least half way. I think there have been a few people willing to do that. But a potential producer of the kit can't have their cake and eat it too. I 'feel' they are trying to do that with having the first person their kit is designed off of cover all expenses for developement. That just isn't going to cut it. Once again i could be way off on this but i doubt it.

Think about it, a turbo is the most expensive component of the kit. A shop will be able to get a discount of 25-50% from what we could get them at the least. The piping is a cinch for any good shop and is a walk in the park with almost no cost for a shop that specializes in turbo's or fab work. If they wanted to be fancy and throw an intercooler into the mix, look at a couple hundred more. Gauges and a timer can be had pretty cheap. Leave the injectors up to the customer to find if they want to run high boost levels. I'm sure there is something i'm leaving out, but i can't see the cost for a shop to build a kit from scratch costing them more than 2K if they don't go crazy with an expensive turbo.


I don't see how the s2000, altima, sentra market would be any more lucrative than the Maxima market.

 

yeah, but did you see the construction on the other kits.

all the welds, connections, everything is impeccable.

none of the other kits out there could be this quality

 

That's how it works sorry. You can't argue with the ACTUAL producers who see this like Cattman, JWT, SSR, etc, can you? This is what they've told me.

Don't forget they are PAYING upfront for the fabrication, buying the parts up front, install, R&D, dyno tuning, and risk if something goes wrong.

There are A LOT of hidden costs that you and I don't realize when you do something like this.

Turbo is given AT COST. Piping has to be bought(304SS is NOT cheap), MB isn't cheap or you pay big $$$ from Burnes Stainless to do it, not to mention the welding labor they have to PAY someone.

These are intercooled and again, they have to find one that fits/works, which could mean buying more then one size/type and eating the cost on the others.

Gauges/timer? I don't even think those are included.

Injectors are necessary if you're pushing the power levels they are promising, so the donor doesn't have a choice.

You need to price out this stuff and then add in the labor for paying someone to spend 3-4wks fabricating. I'd bet that's HALF the cost.

There's more then $2K, right here:
Spearco IC $700
Turbonetics turbo $700
Tial WG/BOV $350
Injectors $600

Throw in labor, tubing, mounts, flex section, flanges, clamps, hoses, AFC, FMU, 02-sensor wires, fuel pump(if necessary), Mocal scavenge pump, SS feed/return lines, Earls T and 90 fittings, new OEM manifold(s), relocating the MAF, air filter, nuts/bolts, etc..

I haven't priced out all these items in awhile, but $3K wouldn't be hard to spend for the TOP quality parts these guys demand.

You're kidding, right?

 

They dont they have 5-6k to cover upfront costs? If SSR doesnt have that much money I guess they are really a small-bussiness. I blow 2k in one night...

There is nothing special about R&D involved with a maxima kit, it is already built,published and tested.
If a maxima kit is unprofitable now for tuners, it will always be that way even if they build the kit with a donor car and everything.

 

Damn, i got timed out and couldn't get back in last night. So here's the short version.

Take all the parts at the cost you listed, which is a high retail, and add that up to 2,350. Now any shop will never pay that much and i think you give them waaaay to much leeway on that. If a shop got a dismal 30% dicount on retail prices that puts them at 1,800.

Now i don't know why you try to add in the cost of labor but that is a none issue. They are trading their time for a donor and can work after shop hrs if need be to get the fab work done. They will be able to buy raw piping fairly cheap and i can't figure out why you would through new oem manifolds into the cost so i didn't include that. One could figure on the generous side of 700 for misc. stuff which puts the cost of everything around 2,500. That is a generous figure there and could be done for less, but we'll go with that for quality sake. Now remember they are looking at 3,500 to 4,000 for the donor car. There is a huge gap there that really disturbes me. Even if the cost miraculously got that high for the kit itself, how in the hell could anyone justify the cost to profit ratio.

 

Plus you said you already had injectors etc.........so that would have made it even cheaper.