I'm not going to search and add up all the prices, but you can if you'd like too:

I've seen what all those pieces can cost from people rebuilding PFI and Hals' kit. It's WAAAAY more then you think. Plus, SSR is not buying in BULK, yes they get discounted prices with a tax id probably, but unless you're buying a **** load of each item, which they're not, it's NOT much cheaper then what eWhore prices you can find on the net. These guys are VERY small and have a fabricator in SD who is basically custom making everything to order.

Labor is FREE to the Max plus tuning, install, etc., however NOT the SSR, so my point is that SSR is fronting ALL those costs before they make $1. That's why they aren't going to give it away for free also.

Retail on their kits will be ~$5K, maybe even closer to $6K depending on what happens. The manifold(s) will have to be replaced on Cali spec cars, so all 2K1+.

 

How long would it take if someone worked 4-5 hours a day on your car. It shouldn't take more than a month. There are already examples of turbo kits for our car even if they go with another route in plumbing. There are examples or what size turbos go well with our car. A months worth of downtime is probally worth 20-30 dollars a day. Which equals 900 dollars for the month. But it will probally take them longer than a month to design a kit. Dyno tuning should be free if they have on in house. I also agree with discounts on turbos, intercoolers ect. A 700 spearco intercooler is huge and will probally never be needed for the average maxima.

I also have to contradict myself. This is pretty much a custom turbo project and any shop you go to will charge 5-6 k. They are not going to be selling lots of these and I can understand paying at cost for the project.

 

$20-$30/day?!?!?

My mechanic would charge $45/hr. for changing BS simple stuff like tranny service, radiator flush, power steering hose, alternator, let alone bending SS, welding it, CNC aluminum brackets, cutting/terminating SS lines, disassembling the front half end of a car, cutting bumper supports, etc.. Basically, the ENTIRE time the car is there on a lift/in the shop, they either charge or they miss money they could be making working on other cars.

The FABRICATOR is charging SSR for everything per hour. No dyno, no wideband 02, so add tuning costs.

I wish Shadow, PFI, even Cattman would chime in here, so you guys would have a GLIMPSE into what goes into something like this. I don't even know, but I've seen what goes into one of PFIs kits and it looks nowhere near what goes into these SSR kits.

If you guys think being a donor is the "cheaper" route, you're mistaken. Ask any PIONEER like Kev/Dixit, test-car, or guinea pig AFTER a project not even as difficult as this and most likely they'll tell you it wasn't worth it for the $$$$, IF they actually saved much, it's more for the LOVE of helping progress something like this along and most of all helping get more Maxima AM support.

 

Let us know when you have the kit done?

 

I think regardless of how much goes into it, a person that is kind enough to let a small company experiment on his car so they can make and sell a product shouldn't have to pay a dime.

Can you imagine if the drug companies required that you paid to take their experimental drugs?

"Here you go, let us know of any side effects, so far only diarhea, headache, and line dancing alien's popping out of the patients abdomen have been the only minor problems. Oh yeah, the medication cost us $2,500, so we need $4,000 from you before you can take part in our study."

R&D should be paid for by the company....

They should really be buying their own Maxima (like Stillen would) and because the "donor" is saving them $15,000 on a used 2002 SE 6 speed, they should consider "giving away" the turbo as a bargain.

Why do you think no one has given up their car yet? Only a fool would give up his car to be experimented on, while in the meantime, he has to PAY $4000. With no warranty, etc...

The moderators are the only people backing up SSR, it kinda makes you wonder...

-vq

 

im not a mod and i like that ssr is wanting to make a kit. i also dont think that these are nominal expenses.

the only downfall is that you have to wait a couple of weeks without a car. for those people with two cars, it would be ideal.

many should go that way anyway so they dont have to use the tc max as a dd

 

Ah drug companies deal in dominations that approach the billions. Spending 1-5 million ain't shat. ie.. less than 1%

Now SSR might have to spend what?? 50%. That's a LITTLE different.

And your BIG ASSUMPTION ABOUT THE MODERATORS COULDN'T BE MORE INACCURATE.

Maybe I should say "hmmm some of these members have it out for SSR???" Sounds stupid right??

VQMAN, if you have no interest in a turbo system, why even post? Just read and shake your head or whatever. I'd like to see it happen. Apparently you're not willing to buck up and see it happen or do what it takes to see it happen. Being first is never cheap or even cost effective. But SOME people do it or else you wouldn't see turbos for 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th gens.

You gotta pay to play. OR you could make one yourself right?

 

did I say I could make one myself? I don't even have the time to begin thinking about it, let alone making one.

I guess you're right, it seems that all the members (other than moderators) have it out for SSR.

you want to know why?

because they want one of us to give up our $500 a month (or more) car that is still brand new and pay them $4000 (that's 8 car payments) to tinkner with it for a month, and then, MAYBE, you'll have a fast daily driver when you get it back, and MAYBE, you won't have any trouble down the road...and with no warranty, why would anyone want to be "the first".

To make his "computer buddies" proud? The one's he may never actually meet?

I think I'm saving a potential Maxima owner from getting screwed by SSR.



Oh, and who said I wasn't interested in a turbo kit? I found out that a S/C mod isn't as easy because of the tight compartment, and if one comes out I might buy one.

But no way will I let a small company experiment on my ride...

-vq

 

You say if I have no interest in a turbo kit that I should keep my comments to myself...

At least I drive the car that is being discussed. So why don't you just shake your head or whatever?

$3,000 in R&D is nothing...even for a small company.

-vq

 

So what if you drive the car of interest? You have no interest right?

If you are not willing to have them demo you car fine. If you have concerns about letting dink with your newer car fine.

But do you actually know it's "$3,000??" Are you qualified to make that determination? ie.. you own your own shop? Know if a shop that's done similar? Do you work in a similar fabricator industry to take an intelligent guess??? By what experience are you stating "$3 grand is nothing for a small company?"

How do you know they would only have to make ONE system?? Maybe they have to go though 2,3,4 prototype designs. Maybe they have to refabricate 2-3 pieces 4 times before they get it to fit. Maybe they have to fabricate 4-5 JIGS before the manufacturing comes out right(Jigs is an expense not factored in yet).

You can say what you want. You have a right to your opinion. I just ask that you at least make an educated opinion. That would add to the discussion. Don't make uneducated statements that detract from the discussion.

I said, "why post". Not keep them to yourself

And that means what?

It's something to me. And it's clear it's something to you because you don't want to pay it either. Why wouldn't be for a small shop? They are people also.

 

First, Stillen doesn't buy every car, most are GIVEN/LOANED to them for R&D work, even Alex Cates from Stillen just stated the 2K2 he used to dyno was a PR car.

Second, I agree in a fantasy world, however this is reality and this is HOW IT WORKS from listening and asking the SAME questions you are from these AM companies.

Last, I'm not defending ANYTHING, infact this whole thread is in a conflict of interest to me PERSONALLY, since if SSR was to find another test-car they wouldn't consider bothering with a deal I have going to use a friends 4th gen so I can get a discounted 5th gen kit, if everything works out.

Don't lump "moderators" together, that's stupid and you don't want to do that. My being a moderator HAS NOTHING to do with this. My being associates with SSR and Cattman could be, but I guarantee it's not.

 

ASSumption and you have no idea how small...lets just say Cattman looks like Microsoft compared to these guys and Cattman is VERY very small compared to Stillen.

You don't have a CLUE on anything you're discussing here, so why argue/defend/object? I'm not, just pointing out what you guys are missing and what I've been TOLD by these companies.

These are facts and you're not SAVING anyone from getting "screwed". It's a MUTUAL benefit to both parties and I'd appreciate you NOT throwing out ASSumptions, BS statements, accusations, etc. that *could* disuade a legitimate donor.

Why? What is the point of that?

It's up to the donor whether the 4-6wks. without their car is worth top quality parts at discount, FREE install and tuning, to a complete 100% turn-key package. That alone is worth $3K once you've installed one of the original PFI kits or go through the headache Dixit did with Hals kit.

 

you obviosly didn't read BOTH of my posts. If I shouldn't say anything because you alledge that I have no interest (which I do) then you shouldn't say anything either, because you won't be interested in buying one either...unless your ride is differnant than your name suggests. (nice car by the way, the 3rd gen is my favorite Maxima of all time, light weight and great suspension)

whatever the price, $3,000, $5,000 $7,000- they should pony up the cash. It's their company.

Unless of course they want to let the donor in on a small peice of every Maxima Turbo Kit sale....say 3%

I feel I am qualified to say that they are (using current methods of recruitment) having difficulty finding a donor.


This is exaclty why I can't imagine anyone letting them tinker around with thier car.

they probably will, especially if they haven't installed many custom turbos.

Have you ever seen any REALLY good electrical conduit work? those guys are artists...and they do it "one shot, one kill." If it takes them 3 times, maybe they should reconsider the small corporation they have started. I hear that painting houses is relatively easy.

what's uneducated about knowing it would be foolish to give up a car one just paid close to $30,000 for a month so someone can experiment on it. Just because I have never installed a turbo doesn't mean I can't bring common sense into the equation.


They are people, but they are a business. You can't make a product like a turbo kit without a car....They will never make a Maxima turbo kit unless...wait!

If they are so good at this, why don't they try to find some investors. They could use testimonials from Altima Turbo Kit owners, and get an investor to chip in $10,000 for R&D, and go from there. Sure, they want a big peice of your profits, so why not find a few smaller investors that are willing to just get their money back out of it, plus 15%?

I think people would be willing to invest if they felt confident that SSR made a good product. From what I hear they do.

-vq

 

ok, so $3000 is a big deal for a small company, but the $3500 to $4000 they wanted isn't small for the guy taking all the frickin risk?

the reason we give tax breaks to small businesses is because owning/starting a small company is inherently risky.

Sometimes (most of the time) things don't pan out.

By having someone donate a car, and pay for the parts, SSR has VIRTUALLY NO RISK!

damn, would I love to start a small company that had NO RISK.

that would be a dream come true, and you bet Pat Buchanan would be up in arms, because EVERYONE would want to come to America, the land of RISK FREE Business Opportunity.

If they are so tiny, it almost sounds as if it is a couple of guys that got laid off from their jobs, and have a hobby of tuning cars, and want one of us to take all the risk.

Not going to happen.

-vq

 

Your missing the point. How do you know it's $3000?? Electrical conduit work?? I didn't know you had to do complex bends that weren't 45/90 degrees and prefabbed. I also didn't know contractors actually had to weld up electrical conduit. I fail to see the similarities in construction(ie.. galvanized cheap tubing vs expensive 304/316 steel, fabrication(screw in vs cut/shape/weld expensive/hard to work with ss steel), etc etc etc...

Investors?? Why don't they? I don't know. Have to you tried to drum up investors? Why not ask a bunch of maxima owners to "invest" in a rental maxima and "invest" in the cost of having it there. For x% off for those of them that have invested??? Works both ways.

 

why doesn't SSR find all the people that are interested in buying a Turbo.

Then they could offer them 110% of their investment TOWARDS the purchase of the Turbo when they finished with the R&D

That would be a win - win situation.

Scenario:
10 guys that all wanted a turbo for their Maxima invested $1000, checks payable to SSR R&D.

When SSR is finished, they could sell the $6,000 turbo kit (or whatever the price) to those 10 owners for $4900.

Basically giving the investors a 10% return on their money, and giving them a quality turbo kit for their car.

Solutions!

-vq

 

Hey! Not bad Still need a donor though. But that's not a bad idea. Provided that SSR can actually build one of a known quality and to a known delivery. I'd hate to invest $1,000 only to have the kit be delayed some x amount of months. Maybe build in a time element in the contract. ie.. if the kit is not available by x date, the % discount goes up by 2% per week.....

 

No, you're missing the point.

I don't care how much it will actually cost SSR to engineer the turbo kit. like I said, $5,000, $7,000 $20,000 or more, It's still their expense, not the donor's. You are making the donor into a sacraficial lamb of sorts.

no one wants to take a $3500 to $4000 risk when there is nothing in it for them.

People only take risks when they might get something out of it.

If SSR is having so much trouble coming up with funding, who is to say they could afford to get your car fixed if they messed something up or blew up your engine?

-vq

 

I think we're on to something here..

I would really like to see a turbo kit, I just felt they were going about getting a donor the wrong way.

With my "plan" the automobile donor wouldn't have to pony up $3500 for the parts, he/she would only have to invest $1000 and expect maybe a 150% return, instead of the regular investor's 110% return...

The regular investor would get 2% for every week they are late, and the donor would get an extra 5% for every week they are late (after all, he is the one taking most of the risk)

-vq

 

What do you mean "nothing"? Aren't they getting a discount or free installation? That's nothing?

 

considering the risk, that's basically nothing (to me)

I think I wrote on my last write up that the donor would get 150% off...

nevermind that, I think he should get the parts for free w/money donated by the fellow interested turbo owners....

I think SSR has to take some risk here...

did you see my response to IceY2k1?

risk is the toughest part of owning a business, if SSR can avoid that, hats off to them, but I think they will have to take a little.

-vq

 

[Back to reality]
Donor gets PARTS AT COST
Donor gets FREE install
Donor gets FREE tuning
Donor gets bragging rights as first with kit
Donor gets TURN-KEY FI Maxima
[/Back to reality]

Sounds like a lot of benefits for basically a CUSTOM turbo setup with only the inconvienence of not having a car for 4-6wks.. Yes, to most that's not an option, however if you could beg/borrow/rent/steal a loaner for that time, you'd be well ahead of paying retail.

If I was a donor and that concerned about being "overcharged", I'd simply ask for receipts showing all the purchases@cost and pay the balance.

Pretty simple way to squelch all the "it doesn't cost that much".

 

I'm not saying they are asking more than the cost, the guy who spoke with SSR suggested that.

I don't care how much it costs, the company should pay for it. PERIOD.

bragging rights...that's what I want..whoop-ti-do!

I'm sure you can write home to mom and dad about that..

Your list basically lists the same things over and over, but in different forms.
The Donor gets:
Turn Key FI Maxima

but not for cost of parts, because when he has to pay for a rental for 4 to 6 weeks, he ends up breaking even...

meanwhile, SSR gets a Turbo Kit to go on market without having to take any risk, all they do is invest time....

does it make you wonder why they haven't found a donor yet?

-vq

oh, jeff92se and I are making progress on a potential "turbo investor" deal that could provide a solution.

finding solutions, not hate, is my primary reason for debating..

and I think we may have found one...

 

Most here do, so you're ...J/K.

People who are considering this most likely have an additional vehicle at their disposal.

They have found donors, for the Senta, G35, S2000, Altima, even 3-for the Maxima, so say that again?

You don't have to convince ME, you have to convince SSR or whoever. Cattman has done something like that before with the Quaifes IIRC, but I doubt people here would trust SSR enough to do it here.

 

So what's the hold up?


-vq

 

Maxima owners keep backing out on them.

All talk and no show, I guess. Hmmm...kind of like this thread...LOL!

Anyways, it's going to happen EVENTUALLY, just not sure when.

 

This was very entertaining!
Good points on both sides. I DID notice that SSR has not given there .02 on this part of discussion. Does anyone actually know what they would ask the donor to pay?

 

I spoke with 2 different people at SSR as i was the first person(to my knowledge) to offer up the donor "as long as they need it". I was going to go a very exotic route but decided for the betterment of the max community we should go with developing a mass marketable kit. Through the few correspondence i had with these guys the more skeptical i became about their hands on knowledge of 'building' kits. Last contact i had with them they gave me a ballpark of 3,500 to 4,000. Keep in mind I already have the fuel injectors, pump, exhaust to accomodate the kit. The problem was the lack of communication on their part and the fact that i keep getting conflicting stories on price ballparks, where they were located, who is actually doing the work, etc. The jist of it was just send us the car and we will do whatever you want. Things were left very open ended and subject to interpretation. I'll be damned if i ship my car out there only to find out they had a hitch and now wanted an extra 1,000.

 

Hmmmm, you think that might have something to do with SSR? I know that i didn't back out, they stopped communicating. I also felt, as maybe the other donors, that they aren't being up front about the work and cost invovled.



On a side note, God bless them for trying but why in the hell would someone put their car up for experiment for little price break. Now knowing that they farm out most of the work it become a little clearer as to why the cost would be a bit higher than a shop that has the ability to do it all in house.

 

I agree...I wouldn't. I'd rather PAY RETAIL then be a guinea pig for something like this. Then again, I'll ONLY do my install/tuning. I wouldn't trust, but maybe a few GOD like tuners I've read about. If it blows up, I want to know I did it.

Again, I would DEMAND or GET IT IN WRITING that I want receipts of exactly what I paid for parts. That eliminates "hidden fees" that you guys are so certain about. Honestly, they could give you a ballpark based on the Altima kit parts list, but it *WILL* be different. You're paying ACTUAL costs, which are unknown until all the dust settles.

As far as not getting the same story twice or a "road map" of exactly what will/won't go down, I fell ya. It's a trust game you got to play, but talk to the Altima and G35 donors and see what they say. I wouldn't ask the Sentra guy though.

 

That's what SSR told me...don't shoot the messenger.

I'm not pointing fingers.

 

i had to back out. why? 6weeks + no car. 1800 miles away.! may cost me around 4k to be a "donor".


i wish ssr the best of luck on this. but i think ill get my turbo when its finshed and tested.

 

Agree...definitely not worth it for someone in WA or FL to ship it to CA and back.

 

We do take risks, risks of spending 100-150 Hours of labor on a project or product that might be a total flop. When we offer these kits at discount that means that nothing is getting compensated for, the hours it takes tuning, the hours we pay our guys to actually build the kits. In most kits and over time we probably have spent 100-150 Hours in labor alone. We cannot afford to give a kit away, so we opt for the next best thing. We give the kit away at our product cost (no labor included) tune it for free, and install it for free, and give all related parts at cost as well (exhaust, etc.)

 

We try to market donor kitsas custom turbo installation and fabrication. This means that you assume all the risk out of interest in modification. This kit will not yield popularity for the guy just looking for the best deal. This offer is for the one guy that knows what he's getting, and knows what he wants. No one out there that produces an aftermarket part will guarantee that your motor will not blow up when modifying it.

Your scenario is a good idea, however it's not very realistic, especially when you have $1,000 from 10 guys over a course of 2-3 months. And also we would still need a car to make the parts off of.

 

SSR can buy a beat-up 4thgen gxe for ~$4000, use it for 3months, return it to stock and resell it for $4000 ?
Now, if they dont have $4k then they must be working out of their garage.

 

if a 4th gen turbo kit would fit, then we could just buy a 4th gen turbo kit.

That's not going to work.

-vq

 

what? i thought this was for a 4th gen kit?

 

They're first trying to get a 2K2+, then a 4th gen, and hopefully they'll follow up with a 2K-2K1 5th gen.

 

by the time that happens I'll probably be an old man.

Back to the topic: I'd love to see a 5th gen turbo kit, quality, good price, easy installation is a must (for me).