From reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that the biggest fear of converting to a stand alone engine management system is mainly the complexity of tunning the system. I'm sure the installation is not a cakewalk either but if this is the biggest fear then I just want to suggest to all of you to look into "Megasquirt or the 034 system". There are alot of sucess stories regarding these systems & plenty of places on the net to download baseline or performance tunning map's. With the megasquirt system you basically are required to build the system yourself but there are plenty of people out there that can build the system for you. This system isn't very expensive to have. It certainly isn't gonna cost you 3K or 4K to aquire. Anyways, I just thought I would pass on a few different stand alone systems for those of you who may need to convert or are just intrested in reading about them. I noticed that most of the systems listed in this thread seem to have come from this month's Modified Magazine. "You know the issue with the 850hp Skyline on the cover". So I'm getting the feeling there hasn't been alot of research done by those who are inquiring about it. My guess is they are just getting their feet wet on the subject so take it easy on them OK guy's???

 

My biggest fear is $2k. The not so distant 2nd biggest fear is taking 1 month or longer, to get the car running properly. Which BTW, is my daily driver.

And most of the people who look into this, truly have no idea what it takes to get a standalone to work 100%. I know I don't. I have only seen ~5 cars with it, and most were not the 1st of that type of car to do it. So, yes people post what they have seen and delt with. And sometimes, people need to understand how hard something is before they leap before they look.

And to restate what most of us have said, there are only ~7 people on this website that MAY NEED to run a standalone system. While they are kicka$$, they are also not an easy thing to install, run, or maintain. And the biggest statement I can make, is why spend $3k on engine management, when $1k will work fine. Most of US, won't pass the 400WHP mark.

Mag's and movies toss around the prospect of standalone engine management everyday, and MOST of the cars in the mags NEED that. But, when the rubber meets the road, a ~350whp maxima running stock compression and stock internals and stock timing, does not need a standalone. It's not cost effective. Now, give me a $1k installed option or 500whp and then I think about it.

 

Every system I listed I've actually seen on a car, and I've seen most of them being tuned on the dyno, and I know the problems the owners have had along with the benefits. Not just dropping magazine names here.

For me at least, it's not the tuning that bugs me, I have access to dyno time for free, and one of the best tuners in town. But I just find it unnecessarily complex to go standalone when it's not necessary. If the motor was built, and the piggyback was holding back power output, I'd consider it. But for me at least, I haven't even maxed out the capabilities of the emanage. Just getting started. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

By all means, somebody try a Motec setup. We'll never know until we try right? The grass is always greener on the other side. Fact is no one has been able to delivery the power the VQ is already capable of putting down in a FWD platform. For us, the emanage will be fine until it becomes a liability in performance or reliability. There are always other things like the transmission, tires, boost control, that our resources are better spent on.

I'd love the ability to tune individual timing, account for atmospheric variables, vary boost w/ speed, datalog wideband, etc but right now just getting the ignition harness and a boost controller into Shadow's car is taking longer b/c of other projects and the fact that we can't store cars at the shop overnight.

Because of that, I work on Shadow's car after hours and commute it 30 miles a day. That means no down time and no tearing the car apart and piecing it together on my own schedule. The car also has to make all major shows in addition to a turbo Integra we also have to keep up with.

On one trip to the dyno, I had the opportunity to watch them try to tune a Haltech on a prototype supercharged IS300. After 6-7 runs and several calls to tech support the car put down a best 287whp at 11psi. Working through the ancient DOS based interface, they couldn't squeeze any more power out of it. The car had also blown a motor after the initial SC install because of tuning error and the tranny let go a few weeks later. We don't have nearly the headaches they do and I'm not looking forward to joining them when we push the engine to that level. Even very tunable cars like Supras used to have to work through things like the HKS alphabet soup of bandaids before AEM came up w/ a solution that still gets debated hotly on Supraforums for reliability and tunability.

 

Sorry guy's if any of you thought I was pointing the finger, that was not my intention. I was simply putting forth the fact that alot of people who ask about converting to stand alone systems haven't done their homework & don't realize that it is completely pointless unless you are exceeding the capibilities of the factory fuel system. My only reason for posting was get the word out about some other stand alone options "Megasquirt / 034". I know these are not the best products on the market but they deffinitly fall in the affordable catagory if you are in the market for a stand alone system. I personnally think the Motec system is the premier set up if you can afford it.

I wasn't trying to blast anyone here, so please don't take anything personnal. I will be the first person to tell you that I don't have any experience with any other stand alone systems except for Megasuirt & 034. Mainly because the majority of the vehicles I work on are older Audi's that one point or another absolutely need to be converted to a stand alone setup because the stock CIS injecton maxes out relitively quick once you start making performance modifications. CIS is a mechanical fuel injection system so there are not alot of options as far as upgrading it go's.

I can say however that I have read alot of post here in the SC/turbo forums and I notice that IceY1K has pointed out that it would be nice to have a common location for downloading tunning solutions and other common info. Thats one reason why I like Megasuirt. They have places that allow you to download software & upgrades if needed. Anyways, I just thought I would clear up any miscrewed thought regarding my previous post.

 

I'm glad you mentioned Megasquirt...I've read some pretty impressive stories about that system and how "easy" it is for your average joe to setup/tune. I know when I get my project car that I can tweak on for months and months, ie not my daily driver, I'll definitely find the best standalone engine management I can afford.

It would be great to build our own Maxima "database" of files for X-brand standalone. However, with our limited FI numbers and variety of setups, it would be too difficult(not impossible) IMO. I personally don't have the resources or experience tuning our VQs *YET* to contribute, but I'd love to research and help any way I can.

I just think 99% of us won't be building a motor, so we will never exceed 400-450whp(stock internal limit) and that we'd be much better off doing just that but with a piggy-back like Split Seconds FTC1 or eManage. You can share files/maps and Vortech SC'd and Greddy TT'd 350Z guys are running it, so we have SOMETHING to start off with. SSR Engineering has also used a PSC1 for fuel control ONLY on their VQ35 turbo kits. Both of those options are a cake walk compared to the brief time I spent working with a TEC-II. For ~$300-$500 for the units/accessories and minimal tuning costs, I'd say you'd need strong reasons to jump straight to a standalone.

People who are forging internals will be forced to pioneer standalone engine management for Maximas, not us.

 

I don't take this stuff personal

And I am glad you pointed out those 2 other options. You can never be to well informed. I just gave my situation. As did jeff and justin. No blood no foul