ELESWON

Hi all, names Tom, this is my first post and i need some help. I am the sales manager at Carolina Performance Racing here in Charlotte. We have a 98 Maxima with Stillen's SC kit using the Vortech blower. We are currently trying to iron out the details on this car and get it tuned and running right for our customer (we did not do the original install). Mods are as follows:

-Stillen SC Vortech V2
-JWT Cams
-JWT Tuning
-370 cc inj (out of a '95 300z TT)
-MSD ignition
-SAFC II

There are many more suspension and brake mods, but for our purposes here they dont matter much. We are going to relocate the battery to the trunk, install a custom Vortech Aftercooler setup, and re-pulley the supercharger for ~12 psi up from the 6 psi its making now. We are shooting for mid-300 hp range (320-350 rwhp would be nice). Now for the questions:

-Are the injectors that are in the car now sufficient for the power level we are hoping to achieve?
-Will this motor hold this level of power without undue problems?

My intention is to send the PCM back to Jim Wolfe for a reflash if we need to upgrade the injectors. But i really dont wanna go that route, as the inj. (Nismo 555 cc flow tested) are about $200 EACH!!! (Sorry, i work on 700 hp domestics every day and i can do 65 lb inj. for a grip less than this. I dont see what the hell is so special about these injectors.) Anywho, this post is long enough now, any and all help and advise is greatly appreciated.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

Copied directly from Bags' post here: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=331493

"370cc injectors an SAFC and a 300ztt MAF will support ~350 WHP/10psi. Much higher than that you need bigger injectors. "

ELESWON

Thanks. I am really hoping to save my customer the extra $1500 it would cost for the new inj. and the tune. Any other opinions?

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

At 350 whp, you'll be right at the hairy edge of what the 370's can handle at the oem 34 psi base fuel pressure and a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator. The SAFC won't help any because the injector duty cycle will already be at 100%. What you could use to gain some safety margin is to use an adjustable fuel management unit like the Vortech super-fmu or the Cartech fmu. That way you can adjust the fmu for a gentle rise in fuel pressure at a greater than 1:1 rate. For instance, you can adjust the Cartech fmu to provide about 60-65 psi of fuel pressure at 12 psi of boost, and then use the SAFC to make fine adjustments if the afr needs to be leaned out a bit.

A more elegant approach would be to have JWT reprogram the ecu (pcm) for a higher base fuel pressure, e.g. 60 psi. Since they have already installed their chip in the ecu, it would only cost $100 to do that. That way you could dispense with the fmu and just retain the SAFC for fine tuning. But don't tell JWT that, they despise SAFCs.

A second issue is what mass air flow sensor will be used? If the car has the original Maxima maf, then it will be at its capacity at 350 engine hp. In order to retain an air flow referenced fuel management system, you need to convert to a 300ZX maf and have JWT reprogram for that. Probably that has already been done, though, eh?

Sounds like it's going to be a pretty hot Maxima. Post some pictures of it, if the owner doesn't mind.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

i'm not a guru, but i don't think you will want to try to push 12 psi. That would require you to run the 2.87" pulley and your injector DC would probably be maxed... although some people here have run/do run the 2.87 pulley, most people stop at 3.125.

On my 2000 Maxima, I ran the 3.125 pulley and got a bit less than 11psi at the manifold. Pulled 300.7 hp at the wheel hubs - and this is on the stock injectors, not the bigger 370's, and no piggyback management like the SAFC or the JWT ECU.

As for the motor, it's definitely up to the task, as long as it's taken care of. I'd recommend synthetic oil and an oil cooler.

Just my $0.02... others know way more than me...

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

yeah... what he said...

iansw

iTrader: (7)

As you already know, Stephen - the stock MAF maxes out well before 350whp, as seen in my Dyno below:

Things start going awry with the JWT ECU and stock MAF around 320hp.

VQ30DES

I dont mean to try to change the topic on this thread but i had a quick question which is somewhat relative. We all know where the 4th gen maf and injectors max out but what about the 5th gens. We have top feed injectors, does this make a diffrence and is the maf the same?

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

That's right, 350 engine hp = ~300 whp.

Awesome results, Ian, btw. I wish I could get there without resorting to a 3" exhaust.

That's another thing, Tom, if you're still listening. From what we've seen, anything less than a 3" exhaust will choke off the top end power well before you get to 340-350 whp, supercharged. And you will most likely need a variable intake, such as what is on the 5th gen Maxima or the JDM version of the 4th gen to improve high rpm breathing.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Oh - my bad.....I get your meaning now - Engine HP.

ELESWON

Oh I am definitly still listening. You guys on this board are the s**t. I have trouble getting response like this on boards i have 500+ posts on, much less being a noob with 1 post. Thank you.

Now then, lets see if i can address all this stuff you guys brought up.

-Car already has a full 3" exhaust.
-Already has Stillen oil cooler
-planning on 3.125 pulley (actually have the pulley on my desk right now)

Where could i find one of those JDM 4th gen intakes or a 5th gen one? That and how much do they retail for?

The car has the Vortech FMU on it now, i was wondering if there was any way to make that work for us if we start running out of fuel?

I talked to Ben @ JWT about 10 times in the last 2 weeks. He tells me there is a) nothing he can do as far as changing the tune as it is tuned for a supercharger and the 370 injectors and then b) it will be a 3 week turn around time for the tune he can't do. OOOKKKK thanks for nuthing bud.

In case you were wondering heres the full mod list for the car:

-Stillen/Vortech blower kit
-JWT cams (256's)
-JWT tuning
-SAFC II
-custom 3" exh
-HKS ignition
-Stillen Oil Cooler
-Stillen Strut Brace
-Stillen Caster/Camber plates
-Tien Coil overs all 4 corners
-Stillen/AP Racing 14" fronts/13" rear brakes
-OZ Racing 19" wheels
-Yokohama AVS tires
-Full complement of Autometer C2 guages
-Spare set of 19" wheels w/ BFG G-Force Drag Radials in the trunk for
those "special occasions"

Planned mods we are doing include a custom Vortech Aftercooler, the requisite battery relocation to the trunk, the 3.12 (3.6 on it now) pulley and a good tune job. If i can get this woman to 320 whp or better she'll be sitting pretty. Again, thanks for the help guys.

JeffesonM

iTrader: (5)

The JDM intake manifold is commonly referred to around here as the MEVI (Middle Eastern Variable Intake) as it came on middle eastern Maximas as well as JDM models. Here is a bunch of information on it. Courtesy Nissan in TX used to sell it, but it looks like they stopped for some reason. I'm not sure where to get one now but you could try the 4th Gen Classifieds forum to see if anyone is selling one.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Iansw used to import the JDM intake manifold (commonly called the MEVI on this board if you want to start browsing for it). Courtesy Nissan sold them for a short time but it seems the only way to get them now is through

http://www.nismoparts.com/catalog/?section=570#1502

though I heard that courtesy might start selling them again (could be just a rumor).

also there are often folks selling theirs in 4th gen classified section.


as far as alternatives for injectors you might want to check this thread out

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=324271

some interesting suggestions in there. other than that im sure there are cheaper alternatives than the nismo 555s as with nismo, you are paying an extra chunk just because they say nismo on them, as opposed to RC or one of the other injector companies out there.

ELESWON

These upgraded intakes are definitly something i will keep in mind. However, from past car building experiance, I think I'll keep my variables to a minimum on a car that has issues to start with. Once i have this puppy up and kicking like i want it, if my customer is interested, i will do the intake setup for her. Any idea on what one of these things (assuming i can find one) will cost me?

JeffesonM

iTrader: (5)

I think Courtesy sold them for around $350. You also need some misc. parts like a vacuum canister, some vacuum line/fittings, and some type of RPM switch to activate the butterfly valves at the desired RPM (around 5,200 seems to be the best). The MEVI really helps the VQ breathe up top and should be very beneficial in a Vortech setup, where max boost is at redline.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

You're not going to get the HP you want without the MEVI.

www.nismoparts.com <----I think you can get them here - not sure on that tho....I don't think it's listend on theri site. Send mail to info@nismoparts.com


HEre is a Dyno without and with the MEVI activating....see the difference? (This is when I was running a 3.25" Pulley and had a boost leak, so the numbers for you should be higher, but the difference between MEVI and no MEVI should be about the same)



Now - you are running the JWT ECU + 370's....do you have the SC installed yet? If you don't, then that's why you're running so rich.....WIth the JWT ECU + 370's + SC you should be at a pretty good 11.5:! fuel ratio. (which is still a little rich for my tastes, but still not "pig rich").

If you are runnign the SC right now with the JWT ECU and 370's, then I'm guessing that FMU is what's causing you to run rich (see my PM I sent you earlier). If you haven't tried removing it completely, try now.

You need an adjustable FMU to raise the adjustment for when the FMU kicks in to solve high-end MAF/lean issues. That Vortech (I'm assuming it's a regular one, not the adjustable Super FMU) will only hurt you because it's starting the FP rise way too early and isn't adjustable.

IanS

bruteMax

that's this thread Neal.


Bill.

ELESWON

Advise taken, intake ordered from nismoparts.com. Thanks.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

And tell this woman to come join the org! definitely could use more females around here.. especially ones that want horsepower!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

oops, editing.

lol i just noticed i actually messed up both links. but they are fixed now.

ELESWON

She wants horsepower to be sure, but more than anything she wants her car running properly. Shes been given the s**t end of the stick at every turn on this build up, so Im going out of my way to make this thing right. And I will tell her that you guys on here were very helpful all along.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

That sucks! But from the sounds of it, she's getting some good assistance from you.

I gotta say, it's a nice change to see a shop try to take care of a customer, instead of taking the customer.

I give you "props" for that!

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Is the Vortech fmu just the standard one or the adjustable super-fmu? You could make the non-adjustable fmu work by putting the 3:1 disk in it, but then you would most likely be running pretty rich and would have to lean out with the SAFC. It would be better to install an adjustable fmu and make adjustments to fuel pressure with it rather than with the SAFC. But that's just my own preferred method.

I was under the impression that JWT had a 4 bar program for 370 cc/min injectors.

ELESWON

Advise taken. I will be refering back to this thread a few times during this build up, Im sure. JWT, which we are an "authorized dealer" for by the way, has been WAY less helpful than spending 24 hrs on this board. They made it out like they have exactly one program for a boosted Max. running the 370s and thats whats in the car now. I think it has something do with the fact they are 3 weeks behind on PCM flashes. Oh well, whatever.

As for the fuel issue, we have a custom aftercooler install, relocation of the battery and a pulley swap (no easy task on this particular setup) before im worried about the tuning. But i will keep what has been said in mind when it comes time to strap that thing to the dyno. Thanks again fellas.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

That Vortech aftercooler is an impressive looking setup!

Also, maybe you want to start thinking of a Technosquare ECU reflash, instead of JWT.....

Just a thought..

http://www.technosquareinc.com/maxima.htm

ELESWON

We're using an Integra GSR kit and modifying as necessary. It will require a few custom mandrel bends and some imagination, but overall it shouldn't be too big of a deal (knock on wood). Moving the battery to the trunk clears out a good deal of room in the motor bay of the car.

Will keep Technosquare on mind if it becomes necessary. Would like to save my customer the $500 if i can though.

Edit-ok Stephen says no TS ECU. Again, a reflash will be the last ditch option here.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I said that because I didn't realize the TS did indeed allow for a higher redline. After I visited their webpage I deleted my objection, but apparently not fast enough.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

Yeah... the email notification (now that it's working) sends the email as soon as you post... so even if you edit or delete, your original post is still sent in the email...

I'm thinking that with all the BS that JWT is giving Tom... maybe TS is an option, instead of having to fudge the existing setup into working with the JWT ECU...

I'm definitely gonna get my 2002 ECU flashed by TS.... raise that redline!! lol...

ELESWON

I see. Well then, i will keep them in mind should a reflash become the only option. Thank you.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

i've found with jwt you have to call them up and tell them exactly what you want done, and just tell them to shut up and do it. if you ask them for advice or do anything other than say "Program my ECU in exactly this way..." they give you a bunch of crap and aren't helpful in the least.

also with a centrifugal sc setup and the possible future addition of an MEVI (which was mentioned before) you are going to want the increased rev limiter of the JWT ECU. not that the car wouldn't be fast without it but it will be much faster with it, being as the power will keep going straight up the higher you go in the RPM band.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

I've found with the MEVI and raised rev limiter + FI, the gains top off at about 6500RPM. After that, the MEVI doesn't help.

(see above Dynos)

Then again, it could be the A/F issue. But I have yet to see a Dyno from anyone else that shows the MEVI helping above 6500 either.

So I'm going off my first assumption. The MEVI doesn't do anything for a boosted car (beyond keeping the HP level after 6500RPM).

(not that a raised rev limiter doesn't rock anyway)

ELESWON

Well the MEVI is on the way, for better or for worse. Im sure it will help out a pretty good bit. The thing with JWT is they tell me they only have one single program for boosted apps using the 370s, nothing else to be done.

Oh well, whatever. If it doesnt make the power I (or the owner) want like this, i have about half a dozen NX Import EFI Wet Kits in stock, one of which will find its way under the hood of this car. A nice 60 shot strait to the face should make this whip right with the world. Besides, dual power-adders are cool.

matty

iTrader: (54)

How many miles are on the 98 ??

-matt

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

I think it will help with the cams, and if you had raised limiter probally even more top end power could be made.

ELESWON

The car pulls to 7400 rpm as is. So obviously she raised the limiter. We just got the aftercooler in from Vortech today, mechanic is working on it as we "speak". Couldn't tell you the mileage on the car as of now, as it has no batter or PCM. Damn digital odo's.

BlackCat

iTrader: (6)

If you could post some pics during the process we'd appreciate that. We all like to keep track! Thanks!

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

yeah... let's see that bad girl!! you can email the pics to someone here if you need someone to host them for you... just let us know...

ELESWON

Will do. Its dirty as hell right now though. As soon as we get into the build up i will take pics.

ELESWON

I got pics, someone give me an email address i can send 'em to, i have no idea how to get these things where you guys can see them.

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

royalh13@yahoo.com