chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

Ok i need a final verdict on my fuel setup. For my 2000 SC'd w/3.125 pulley i am buying this week hopefully a walbro intank pump, Cartech FMU, adjustable fpr, and Power Enterprise 380cc injectors. Using all of this will i be able to effectively run these injectors for a daily driven car? Also will i be able to tune the 380cc injectors using a fpr and cartech fmu to avoid any idle problems and operation under closed loop ecu operation. Since i do not have a ECU upgrade option i figure this is what i am limited to. I know i can use Emanage but i would like to avoid that since i am still a newb to the Safc. Please don't tell me to search because i have gone through EVERYYY page in the boosted forum and can't find a direct answer.

Sorry this is so long but i just need to get these questions answered.

Thanks again fellas
Chris

turbomax97

iTrader: (6)

For idle - the cartech fmu isn't gonna have anything with setting up the idle - it will all be in the adjustable fpr. Also - I don't know that you even need the cartech fmu if you're hitting what, 11 psi? you have 380cc inejctors - I think those will be enough. I could be wrong...

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

I am pretty sure the injectors are substantial for my amount of boost. I have a auto so i am hitting about 10psi. I want to know if i can run these without emanage or aftermarket ecu.

dadiesel

I agree that the injectors should be enough. Also, how much did your Apexi SAfc help with your tuning? I was thinking of getting one but wanted some info from someone with the same gen. maxima.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I don't see why not. I run 400cc injectors in my 4th gen on STOCK FPR & ECU.


www.rceng.com says you'll be in the range of 80% IDC. Not much higher @ 45 PSI FP. So, I think the size of them will be fine.

I'd get a SAFC to tune with, that way you get a good tune for a broader powerband

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

Yea i got a SAFC just waiting to get all my stuff in so i can go dyno tune the *****

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

I haven't really used it to tune any yet. I am still trying to educate myself on fuel to air ratios so my knowledge of how to use it is still pretty limited. I have played with it a little and it is fairly easy to make adjustment if you know what your doing

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

You have a Z32 MAF though, he doesn't.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Chris,

An adjustable FPR should help the ECU idle the larger injectors on cold starts by adjusting the base fuel pressure from 34psi down to <30psi or so as 4th geners have been doing for awhile...at least in theory. During closed-loop(once warm) the ECU will have no problem compensating. During open-loop, or WOT, that's where your SAFC will need to tune especially if you're using the Cartech to add fuel up top.

One slight concern I have is that those might not be 380cc injectors, but ~350cc injectors. Rumor has it that PE rated them at stock VQ35 fuel pressure, which is 3.5bar ~51psi and not the industry standard 3bar ~43psi. So, you might want to send one off to RC Engineering to be flow tested just to make sure. I would. Although, you can easily use the Cartech to make up for it if the rumor is true.

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

Ok so if they are 350cc injectors i think they would still be enough or am i wrong? Also would getting the the cartech be a good idea or should i just stay with the 8:1 vortech FMU. Also isn't the 5th gen maf stronger than the 4th gen. I don't see i would need a upgraded maf if i haven't been leaning out on my current setup( at least i don't think i have no pinging noise or lose of power up top). I just want to upgrade the fuel setup for safety and realiability reasons.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

but there are other 4th gens running 370's with the a32 maf with no real issues.

I don't see what the problem coould be.

And the only reason I went to the larger maf was a32 maf was maxed out.


Again, under normal driving conditions he will be more rich, but not by much.

It's my understanding that the 5th gen have ~30cc bigger injectors than the stock 4th gen. So I saw it as a smaller jump as well

Nismotech1

iTrader: (1)

i'm sorry for the dunb questions but, what does fpr and safc stand for? i do not understand what these mean, i am running an 2.87 pulley with the vortech fmu and stock ecu and stock injectors with no real issues, the only upgrade other than pulley i have is an turboXS racing bypass/blowoff valve. the maf is stock also but it sits on the suction side of the piping not the boost side. i do't know if that matters

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

SAFC= Apexi SAFC 2
FPR= Fuel Pressure Regulator

Man i am so glad that you reminded me of that. I forgot that i don't need to woory about my maf since it sits on the intake side and not on the charged like the 4th gen setup. You got ballz running that 2.87 pulley on those stock injectors and with out any other tunning device. What disk on your fmu are you running? Also do you have the walbro fuel pump?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'm pretty sure they are turning down fuel pressure.

A Z32 MAF shortens pulse-width to decrease fuel from the larger injectors and so does adjusting the base fuel pressure down.

Two ways to make the A32 ECU cold start enrichment not flood the engine, although I'd prefer the Z32 MAF route.

Under normal driving conditions, he'll be in closed-loop with 02-sensor feedback, so in both cases he'll be near stoichometric. Only time he'll be rich is during cold starts and open-loop without bandaids.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

350cc is good for ~290bhp(crank) at 80% duty cycle. You'll exceed the safe recommended duty cycle withOUT using a FMU, however people here have been hitting 90%+ duty cycle for years. It depends on YOUR intestinal fortitude and safety comfort level.

As bags said...using the Z32 MAF was for 4th gens to flow more air, we 5th gens. don't have that option/limitation, yet. I was just pointing out that it helps decrease the amount of fuel the 370cc injectors put out due to shorter pulse width.

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

but since my my maf sitts on the intake side of the supercharger i don't have to worry about that do I?

I would need emanage to run the 440cc correct? Does anyone make a 400cc injector?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

It doesn't matter if you blow or suck air through, eventually the MAF will hit 5.1x Volts. So far, I don't think 5th gens have figured out when/where that point is, but I doubt you'll be maxing the MAF.

400cc? Not that I know of...

I don't know if turning down fuel pressure would allow the RC440s or other 4XXcc injectors I know of, to not flood during cold start enrichment. Nobody has tried.

I'm not sure why you're not interested in the eManage. It is just as simple to wire as a SAFC for fuel correction, however add a few more wires for the timing and other features, that you should need/want. You've invested quite an amount into your car and I think bigger injectors warrant you sell the SAFC and get the eManage. Just my .02.

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

I guess your right. I just got the damn thing hooked up not to long ago and i just didn't want to have to deal with wiring again(as it is not something i am great at ). I have been toying with the idea lately since my girlfriiend just got a beast of laptop and i could use it to make adjustments . Also i didn't think anyone ever figured out how to wire up the timing harness without frying the coilpacks?

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

you solder diodes on each coil "out" wire...simple. this allows for retarding, but no advancing.

and BTW, other than the injector and coil wires, everything is pretty much the same as the AFC wiring, so you can just cut the old AFC wires and solder the new ones right to the leads.

SPiG

iTrader: (7)

I would get rid of the FMU if possible. That will allow for better tuning. He thinks that idle will suffer with bigger injectors but has anyone with really big injectors had idle problems? I don't seem to remember there being too much of a problem if everything else was set up right. The ECU should compensate in closed loop anyway.

SPiG

iTrader: (7)

Some other threads on bigger injectors and idling:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=injector+idle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=injector+idle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=injector+idle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=injector+idle
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....=injector+idle

From what I can gather the brand and quality of the injector is very important for idling. You should have no problems until you get huge (1000+cc).

The only thing is getting your car to be able to use bigger injectors at all. Emanage can only get 150% of stock injectors I think. I am not sure about the SAFC-2. I would assume it is about the same. I would also worry about your MAF at some point. I am not as clear on 5th gen fuel setups. If you could get somewhere in the 500-550cc area I would be more happy with what you want to do with your car.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I don't know if this helps or not being as I have a 4th gen and 2 auxiliary injectors controlled by Emanage, but I'm running 6 370cc (z32) and 2 RC 750cc injectors (flowing the equivalent of 6 620cc injectors) and even though I've not had this setup for more than a week and a half, there are no idle problems that I have found. Cold start is a problem when temps are below like 40*F but it will start eventually, the only idle problem I have noticed is on the cold starts, idle will be jumpy, but a quick rev to 2500ish after start (wait for the oil to circulate for a moment, then just quickly tap it up to 2500) and then the idle sets perfectly and it idles down like a stock car does.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Those 750cc's only turn on at a certain MAF voltage(psi really), so they aren't a factor during cold starts most likely.

Where are they located? Any pics?

cardana24

iTrader: (81)

I am running the same set up your are talking about minus the cartech FMU...I am running the Vortech 4:1 disc. I use my SAFC-II to tune, and the injectors are not close to being maxed out (but I have a 98 with a different intake manifold than what you have) in fact I almost have to max the SAFC-II out inorder to pull enough fuel across open loop operation to properly tune the car. My car idles fine and it is driven regularly. Hope this helps.
-Carson

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

They are located where the midpipe would be locatedon a bolt on max, just aft of the MAF (MAF is in basically the stock location). I can take pics later today if you would like. And yes I think you are right they aren't dumping fuel at startup so I probably shouldn't have even mentioned them in the context of cold starts.

chris'smax

iTrader: (3)

After some thought i think going with the walboro, PE 440's, FPR and keeping the vortech 8:1 FMU with the t-rex in line auxilary pump woould be sufficient for my plans. From what Alex has told me the Power Enterprise are good quality and have good atomization(think that is how you say it) which seems to be the down fall of the RC injectors. Now can this be tuned with SAFC since you can on make open loop adjustments or is it necessary to go with Emanage.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

PE only makes a "380cc" or "510cc" injector, RC Engineering makes the 440cc(Greddy kit for 350Z) along with pretty much any other size.

If you're going with larger injectors, just get the eManage+Support tool+injector/timing harnesses and find someone with some decent wiring skills to help you install.

AFCs like the Apexi SAFC, Fields, or similar can't really tune anything other then open-loop, WOT, range. Supposedly, the SAFC has a low/high throttle maps, so it *MIGHT* be possible to set the low throttle map, say TPS <30% and for <1000rpm and <2000rpm, to help tune out some fuel during cold starts. However, I'd bet the ECU will fight this or override it over time from what I've read in the FSM. How the eManage that basically does the same, ie conditions MAF voltage for decreasing fuel, successfully does this, I don't know but people here/everywhere say it does work.

Anyways, I *WISH* I had a "cookie cutter" solution for your fuel, however 5th gens. don't have many people running larger injectors except probably 3-4, I'd guess. They all are using eManage as far as I know.

You should contact Gabriel aka LatinMax, he is running PE510s on a V2 SC'd 5th gen..

Nismotech1

iTrader: (1)

[/QUOTE]SAFC= Apexi SAFC 2
FPR= Fuel Pressure Regulator

Man i am so glad that you reminded me of that. I forgot that i don't need to woory about my maf since it sits on the intake side and not on the charged like the 4th gen setup. You got ballz running that 2.87 pulley on those stock injectors and with out any other tunning device. What disk on your fmu are you running? Also do you have the walbro fuel pump?[/QUOTE]

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i thought we had 370 injectors stock in our 5th gens. i guess i won't push it for now, also who sells a good air fuel controller, i assume (afc)