I have 3 trannies and going tp prep the internals for cryo who.....
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
I have 3 trannies and going tp prep the internals for cryo who.....
I wanted to see the interest in you guys that are running over 300HP or planning on putting down 300HP. I have possibly 3 trannies that I am about to send out to get cryo treated and shot pinned. Wanted to see the interest and feedback I would receive from you guys?
One of the trannies is a Locking LSD tranny off a I30T. The others are 4th gen trannies.
I would require for you guys to send me your good core so I can continue the cycle. More then likely I am going to replace some parts to make the trannies new again so there is no doubt in anyones mind that the tranny will be back to zero miles. That would include the replacement of syncros and diff bearings and reshimming the trannies.
You guys let me know. Shipping costs we are looking at $85-$125 insured.
One of the trannies is a Locking LSD tranny off a I30T. The others are 4th gen trannies.
I would require for you guys to send me your good core so I can continue the cycle. More then likely I am going to replace some parts to make the trannies new again so there is no doubt in anyones mind that the tranny will be back to zero miles. That would include the replacement of syncros and diff bearings and reshimming the trannies.
You guys let me know. Shipping costs we are looking at $85-$125 insured.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 296
I've got a 89max. I Know the weak point in my setup is the tranny. Will the LSD tranny work in my car? Mines a VG engine. I could pick one up here in a bone yard and get it down to you. Like the above statements what would the approximate total cost out the door be?
THanks for the offer to help us if your a tranny guy!
~Scott
THanks for the offer to help us if your a tranny guy!
~Scott
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Are you having the gears magnafluxed and detailed as well?
I am going to get the gears cryo and shot pinned thas about it. I dont even know what magnafluxed is? what is that? will it help the strength process
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
i can t give you guys prices yet, I have to see what treating all this gears is going to cost me first. Next week Im sending out the packages. This week I m very busy with a engine install.
its $3 a pound if you get it done at 300 below. To get all the gears cryoed and shot peened should be less than $200 total. Just for reference, not sure who you plan on using if there is someone local.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by blubyu2k2
its $3 a pound if you get it done at 300 below. To get all the gears cryoed and shot peened should be less than $200 total. Just for reference, not sure who you plan on using if there is someone local.
Hey Jay are you going to use Evans Performance in Cummings? The price list Dan gave me lists a full tranny cryo for $295 and a R.E.M. treatment for $350, or both for $625. Or they have individual prices for different parts. The site is www.evansperformance.com if you guys want to read up on their services.
Choray
Choray
Originally Posted by Larrio
sounds like a sweet deal. It might be hard to find a AE core for myself though
blubyu2k2: does that place allow walk-in customers? i'm not too far from there
blubyu2k2: does that place allow walk-in customers? i'm not too far from there
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by choray911
Hey Jay are you going to use Evans Performance in Cummings? The price list Dan gave me lists a full tranny cryo for $295 and a R.E.M. treatment for $350, or both for $625. Or they have individual prices for different parts. The site is www.evansperformance.com if you guys want to read up on their services.
Choray
Choray
$625
I hope it dont cost that much. If it does then I know people are not going to even want to pay close to that for a cryoed tranny
No!!! the $350 R.E.M. treatment polishes the gear set reducing friction and heat. The full cryo is only $295 or $10 per gear and 15 for the main shaft, ect. PM me a fax # and i'll send the list. I'm sure if you use them regularly there'll be a good discount.
Cryo treating and shot peening does little for strength that is why I was wondering. Cryo treating is much more effective at increasing wear resistance, but the strength increase is minimal, on the order of 5-10% strength increase.
Magnafluxing is a process that douses the gears in a solution which contains magnetic particles that stick to the gears in a certain orientation. Then when you stick the gear under an ultraviolet light any cracks in the gears, cracks that are invisible to the naked eye, become glaringly obvious. They use this to make sure they are not working on gears with cracks that are going to break because of pre-existing problems. I saw them do this on a DSM gear that visibly looked perfect. Once they stuck it under the ultraviolet light, EVERY SINGLE TOOTH had fractures in it. Every one. Some teeth had two, three, or four cracks in them. You couldn't see these cracks with the naked eye, but under the UV with the magnaflux on it, they literally turn neon green.
Gear detailing is the largest strength increase you can get when working over a stock gear. Each corner of each tooth of each gear is radiused by hand with a little die grinder. When gears break, it's typically at the corners, because the slag that comes from the gear cutting process at the factory is not uniform, it creates portions of the gear tooth that have extreme amounts of pressure exerted on them, and other portions which have very little pressure exerted on them. Gear detailing is how they make the pressure over the gear tooth evenly distributed. Gear detailing increases strength and durability, and reduces friction and heat. It's labor intensive. I watched Ming (the chief trans builder of Team Rip Engineering) detail one of my gears. It takes like 3 hours to do a set set of gears in a 5spd transmission. So you are looking at about 3 hours times whatever the shop's labor rate is.
As stated before cryo treating is done by weight. It cost me $175 to have my maxima's gears cryo treated. Maxima gears are small, like honda small infact. Compared to a normal DSM gear, they are only about 75% as thick, which sucks for us. Team Rip told me it's up to me whether or not I cryo treated them, it makes little difference in the strength of gear, but since I need every bit of strength I can get, I decided to have it done.
Magnafluxing is a process that douses the gears in a solution which contains magnetic particles that stick to the gears in a certain orientation. Then when you stick the gear under an ultraviolet light any cracks in the gears, cracks that are invisible to the naked eye, become glaringly obvious. They use this to make sure they are not working on gears with cracks that are going to break because of pre-existing problems. I saw them do this on a DSM gear that visibly looked perfect. Once they stuck it under the ultraviolet light, EVERY SINGLE TOOTH had fractures in it. Every one. Some teeth had two, three, or four cracks in them. You couldn't see these cracks with the naked eye, but under the UV with the magnaflux on it, they literally turn neon green.
Gear detailing is the largest strength increase you can get when working over a stock gear. Each corner of each tooth of each gear is radiused by hand with a little die grinder. When gears break, it's typically at the corners, because the slag that comes from the gear cutting process at the factory is not uniform, it creates portions of the gear tooth that have extreme amounts of pressure exerted on them, and other portions which have very little pressure exerted on them. Gear detailing is how they make the pressure over the gear tooth evenly distributed. Gear detailing increases strength and durability, and reduces friction and heat. It's labor intensive. I watched Ming (the chief trans builder of Team Rip Engineering) detail one of my gears. It takes like 3 hours to do a set set of gears in a 5spd transmission. So you are looking at about 3 hours times whatever the shop's labor rate is.
As stated before cryo treating is done by weight. It cost me $175 to have my maxima's gears cryo treated. Maxima gears are small, like honda small infact. Compared to a normal DSM gear, they are only about 75% as thick, which sucks for us. Team Rip told me it's up to me whether or not I cryo treated them, it makes little difference in the strength of gear, but since I need every bit of strength I can get, I decided to have it done.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,451
From: Near Archer High School, Ga
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Cryo treating and shot peening does little for strength that is why I was wondering. Cryo treating is much more effective at increasing wear resistance, but the strength increase is minimal, on the order of 5-10% strength increase.
Magnafluxing is a process that douses the gears in a solution which contains magnetic particles that stick to the gears in a certain orientation. Then when you stick the gear under an ultraviolet light any cracks in the gears, cracks that are invisible to the naked eye, become glaringly obvious. They use this to make sure they are not working on gears with cracks that are going to break because of pre-existing problems. I saw them do this on a DSM gear that visibly looked perfect. Once they stuck it under the ultraviolet light, EVERY SINGLE TOOTH had fractures in it. Every one. Some teeth had two, three, or four cracks in them. You couldn't see these cracks with the naked eye, but under the UV with the magnaflux on it, they literally turn neon green.
Gear detailing is the largest strength increase you can get when working over a stock gear. Each corner of each tooth of each gear is radiused by hand with a little die grinder. When gears break, it's typically at the corners, because the slag that comes from the gear cutting process at the factory is not uniform, it creates portions of the gear tooth that have extreme amounts of pressure exerted on them, and other portions which have very little pressure exerted on them. Gear detailing is how they make the pressure over the gear tooth evenly distributed. Gear detailing increases strength and durability, and reduces friction and heat. It's labor intensive. I watched Ming (the chief trans builder of Team Rip Engineering) detail one of my gears. It takes like 3 hours to do a set set of gears in a 5spd transmission. So you are looking at about 3 hours times whatever the shop's labor rate is.
As stated before cryo treating is done by weight. It cost me $175 to have my maxima's gears cryo treated. Maxima gears are small, like honda small infact. Compared to a normal DSM gear, they are only about 75% as thick, which sucks for us. Team Rip told me it's up to me whether or not I cryo treated them, it makes little difference in the strength of gear, but since I need every bit of strength I can get, I decided to have it done.
Magnafluxing is a process that douses the gears in a solution which contains magnetic particles that stick to the gears in a certain orientation. Then when you stick the gear under an ultraviolet light any cracks in the gears, cracks that are invisible to the naked eye, become glaringly obvious. They use this to make sure they are not working on gears with cracks that are going to break because of pre-existing problems. I saw them do this on a DSM gear that visibly looked perfect. Once they stuck it under the ultraviolet light, EVERY SINGLE TOOTH had fractures in it. Every one. Some teeth had two, three, or four cracks in them. You couldn't see these cracks with the naked eye, but under the UV with the magnaflux on it, they literally turn neon green.
Gear detailing is the largest strength increase you can get when working over a stock gear. Each corner of each tooth of each gear is radiused by hand with a little die grinder. When gears break, it's typically at the corners, because the slag that comes from the gear cutting process at the factory is not uniform, it creates portions of the gear tooth that have extreme amounts of pressure exerted on them, and other portions which have very little pressure exerted on them. Gear detailing is how they make the pressure over the gear tooth evenly distributed. Gear detailing increases strength and durability, and reduces friction and heat. It's labor intensive. I watched Ming (the chief trans builder of Team Rip Engineering) detail one of my gears. It takes like 3 hours to do a set set of gears in a 5spd transmission. So you are looking at about 3 hours times whatever the shop's labor rate is.
As stated before cryo treating is done by weight. It cost me $175 to have my maxima's gears cryo treated. Maxima gears are small, like honda small infact. Compared to a normal DSM gear, they are only about 75% as thick, which sucks for us. Team Rip told me it's up to me whether or not I cryo treated them, it makes little difference in the strength of gear, but since I need every bit of strength I can get, I decided to have it done.
You are definitely right about the first parts of the gears that go on our cars are the corners. One thing I did notice on two sets of diffs is the main differential gear. The auto diff is much much larger and bulkier. It wont fit into the manual trannies. The corners of the diff broke off, then broke a couple of corners on the main shaft that it connects to. The broken pieces got stuck in between other gears and they broke too. Who are these people that did your gears? would you recommend them over others? I was under the impression that cryo, shot pinned and deburred would be more then good enough. But to replace every single gear if its cracked or something thats going to get pretty expensive. How ever it will bring the condition of the tranny to brand new. I purchased two gears and that was $275. The main diff gear is about $120 and thats one that needs to get replaced on most of these trannies.
The guys that did (are doing) my work are www.teamrip.com. They are local to me so I don't have to worry about shipping, but they are the premier DSM trans builder. David buschur uses their trans', Kevin kiggly in his 9 second (should be in the 8s now) FWD auto DSM, tons of other 9 and 10 second cars, etc. They know their stuff like crazy.
Yeah replacing gears is expensive. If there was any more than one or two cracked gears then you might as well just go with a different trans probably. The point though is that there is no use in beefing up a trans if there are cracked gears in it, since the cracked gears will be the weakest link, no matter what you do to the rest of the trans. When I had my trans Magnafluxed everything looked perfect which doesn't surprise me since it was a non boosted, low mileage trans. For guys who are already boosted and have done some beating on their trans, and are thinking of building it up, magnafluxing could save them a whole lot of money. Say you pay $600 or $1000 or whatever to have a trans built up but don't magnaflux it, and then a gear that was already cracked fails, then the whole trans will likely be ruined as you said by all the little gear peices floating around getting stuck in other gears, etc.
Yeah replacing gears is expensive. If there was any more than one or two cracked gears then you might as well just go with a different trans probably. The point though is that there is no use in beefing up a trans if there are cracked gears in it, since the cracked gears will be the weakest link, no matter what you do to the rest of the trans. When I had my trans Magnafluxed everything looked perfect which doesn't surprise me since it was a non boosted, low mileage trans. For guys who are already boosted and have done some beating on their trans, and are thinking of building it up, magnafluxing could save them a whole lot of money. Say you pay $600 or $1000 or whatever to have a trans built up but don't magnaflux it, and then a gear that was already cracked fails, then the whole trans will likely be ruined as you said by all the little gear peices floating around getting stuck in other gears, etc.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
The guys that did (are doing) my work are www.teamrip.com. They are local to me so I don't have to worry about shipping, but they are the premier DSM trans builder. David buschur uses their trans', Kevin kiggly in his 9 second (should be in the 8s now) FWD auto DSM, tons of other 9 and 10 second cars, etc. They know their stuff like crazy.
Yeah replacing gears is expensive. If there was any more than one or two cracked gears then you might as well just go with a different trans probably. The point though is that there is no use in beefing up a trans if there are cracked gears in it, since the cracked gears will be the weakest link, no matter what you do to the rest of the trans. When I had my trans Magnafluxed everything looked perfect which doesn't surprise me since it was a non boosted, low mileage trans. For guys who are already boosted and have done some beating on their trans, and are thinking of building it up, magnafluxing could save them a whole lot of money. Say you pay $600 or $1000 or whatever to have a trans built up but don't magnaflux it, and then a gear that was already cracked fails, then the whole trans will likely be ruined as you said by all the little gear peices floating around getting stuck in other gears, etc.
Yeah replacing gears is expensive. If there was any more than one or two cracked gears then you might as well just go with a different trans probably. The point though is that there is no use in beefing up a trans if there are cracked gears in it, since the cracked gears will be the weakest link, no matter what you do to the rest of the trans. When I had my trans Magnafluxed everything looked perfect which doesn't surprise me since it was a non boosted, low mileage trans. For guys who are already boosted and have done some beating on their trans, and are thinking of building it up, magnafluxing could save them a whole lot of money. Say you pay $600 or $1000 or whatever to have a trans built up but don't magnaflux it, and then a gear that was already cracked fails, then the whole trans will likely be ruined as you said by all the little gear peices floating around getting stuck in other gears, etc.
They make a very $$$ tranny for the DSM, maybe they would be willing to do some maxima work if the volume is right.... Just a thought
Originally Posted by Cutler
Buscher(sp?) racing makes some nasty *** DSMs. Another one is John Shepherd. www.shepracing.com
They make a very $$$ tranny for the DSM, maybe they would be willing to do some maxima work if the volume is right.... Just a thought
They make a very $$$ tranny for the DSM, maybe they would be willing to do some maxima work if the volume is right.... Just a thought
I suspect that Shepracing is the same as TRE, they will do any transmission you send to them. They just specialize in DSMs. There are probably 200 transmissions down at TRE right now and probably 95% of them are from DSMs and Evos. They can do a $600 build like mine, or a $4000 build like the invoice for the 1000hp race car that is tacked up on the wall right now, etc.
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