Well the JWT will be out of the car...now what ??

I still have my 370's and Z32-MAF in the car...will I be able to keep my Z32 hooked up and running with the A32 ECU ?? I can easily hook back the A32 MAF if thats really needed...
Hows the car going to run on the stock computer (rich??) and what should I keep my base FP at ??

I remember hooking up the A32 ECU when I was troubleshooting early on, and the car ran PIG rich when idleing at 34 psi idle...Its going to be about 2 weeks before I get the Wideband installed so I can monitor how the cars acting and will show if I need to add the FMU back in...(hopefully not)

I dont wanna run up the RPM's anywhere past like 4, So I wont have to worry about detonation...

This is all in hopes of the Emanage Ultimate being able to work on the VQ30DE...alot of smart guys working on that...if that doesnt, then Ill be using the Blue Box..

Anything you guys know, help me out

-matt

 

You've got a stock ECU in your posession right? Just try it and see what happens I say. Some people have problems, and some people (like MikeD for instance) can use a stock ECU, Z32 maf, 555cc injectors, and have 50psi base FP and not have a single problem whatsoever.

 

anyone else...

-matt

 

I wish I could give you some words of wisdom, but I had the E-manage hooked to the factor ecu before I even put in the injectors. I'm still running the a32 MAF so I have no idea how the factory ecu will run with out the program. I read a lot about the problems you guys were having with JWT so I didn't even want to go that route. I30mike is running on the factory ecu with the bigger injectors and the z32 with a SAFC II controler, and is having good results. Plug it in and turn down the pressure and adjust your controller down and see what happens. Just dont boost with out the wb02 and blow up.

 

My car runs great on 550's and a Z32 MAf alone, trapped 111 mph on 9psi. Maintains a stoich AFR at idle and cruising no problem. This is at 50psi of base fuel pressure. Neal and I have have spent a decent amount of time with a wide band on my car using this set up. WOT is rich, but remeber I was at 50psi of fuel pressure so these injectors are flowing more like 580's then 550's. These were flowed by DeatschWerks at 550cc @ 43psi of fuel pressure.

No starting issues ever. Not even once. Car sat for more than 24 hrs on several occasions and started without a glitch.

WOT AFR's with no SAFC corrections were in the very low 10:1's. I tuned it via the SAFC to 10.5-11.0. It had to stay rich in some places because I did not want to pull too much fuel via the SAFC and advance the timing, being that I was well over 300whp on stock timing.

Gas mileage seems to be a little worse running like this compared to using the JWT ECU, but I never actually calculated it so that is not for sure.

Why did this work so well for me. Not a 100% sure. I have a few ideas as of why.

1. I was doing this using a auto ECU. Could somehow be the difference as to why I did not flood at start up. I would need a stock 5spd ECU to know this for sure though

2. Could be the injectors I was using. Guys who have tried running larger injectors and just a Z32 MAF had had starting issues due to too much fuel being dumped at cold start. They have had to turn base fuel pressure way, way down to keep from flooding. But these guys were mostly using 370's from A Z32 or even larger Nismo injectors. It is not secret that DeatschWerks injectors are modified stock injectors, which may be the difference.


In addition, I recently swithed to a different style DeatschWerk 550 injector. These different injectors have allowed me to run the JWT ECU with no problems. However, using these different DeatschWerks injectors with the stock ECU I have encountered a little bit of flooding at idle. Nothing that kept me from getting the car started, but there was some hesistation at start up on a few occasions.

I am currently running around with these new DeatschWerks injectors and the JWT ECU at 10-11 psi. The thing is, is that my car is slower like this than with the stock ECU and at less boost. It must be a timing thing but I do not know for sue.

 

We should test a stock 5spd ECU some day.

 

I have tested it.

Matty, you will need to run the z32 maf and injectors.

I have a post lurking around here that has some safc corrections to fine tune, but I was running a 4:1 FMU disc and with that I had A/F's of 10.8-11.4 all the way up to redline.

If you don't bump fuel pressure with the cartech, you might run a little more lean in the upper rpms, but you should be fine with normal daily driving.

 

Here you go!
http://f.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=426644

 

at which point does the safc start to affect timing? I know that being boosted, we defienately not want to advance timing but how could u tell if u were?

 

you would have to log your timing to know the exact effect. The way it works is that to pull fuel the SAFC intercepts the MAF signal to the ECU and tells the ECU that the MAF is reading a lower voltage than it actually is. Thus The ECU slows the injector pulse width. So your ECU thinks your at a lower load then you actually are, and generally timing is advanced greater at lower loads and decreases at higher loads. The opposite happens when adding fuel, you could actually decrease timing.

I have never logged timing, so I don't know for sure but from other fairly knowledgeable tuners you really don't want to correct with an SAFC more than 20% or so. After than you can really start to play with timing.

If I chose to run the stock ECU in the future I will get an AFPR and turn down the base fuel pressure which will bring up my AFR's and maybe I can use the SAFC to add fuel instead of pull fuel, making it a bit safer process.

 

You've tested which?

I was saying to mike we should test a stock 5spd ecu in his car rather than the stock auto ecu he is using to see if the auto ecu is the reason his car runs so well on big injectors and z32 maf whereas others have problems.

 

now if I remeber reading the EU thread right, both emanage and eu can be the other option to JWT in control the injector flow on bigger injectors like a 370 or 550 correct? I have to re-read the EU thread regarding the crank sensor reading which is having a problems causing some of the functions not to work. For guys that are running over 10psi what do u use if any to retard timing? With emanage blue, what harness is needed to tune? both injector and ignition? or pressure too?

 

That was directed at matty and his question.

Mike, use the formula at rc engineering's site to decide what you should put fuel pressure to in order to have a good a/f. Its is this one: Sq. Root(New Pressure/Old Pressure)*Old Flow Rate=New Flow Rate

Also, remember that you're using a MAF that "sees" 370cc injectors. 560/370=~50% more flow, so my guess is to drop base fp to 25 psi to get fairly close to stock flow.

Too bad you already sold the FMU, because you may need to bump fuel pressure to cover a higher boost setup.

A thread that I made that no one replied to covered a lot of this information. It is currently at the bottom of the SC/TC page.

 

Not really sure what your trying to say Steve, doesn't make sense to what we are talking about.

The MAF doesn't "see" any injector. It just sees X amount of voltage at X amount of air flow. The ECU is programed to change injector pulse width in connection to the voltage it gets from the MAF.

Given the Same air flow, I will see less voltage with the Z32 MAF then with the A32 MAF. Hence, I will get less injector pulse width. But if I am running larger injectors the smaller pulse width will still be providing more fuel.

I don't need to use a formula for fuel pressure. My injector report tells me exactly what my injectors flow at a dozen different fuel pressures. I just need a fuel pressure gauge (which I have), an AFPR, and a wide band. I know my AFR's at 50psi of base fuel pressure is in the very low 10:1 range. Just turn base fuel pressure down a few psi and see where it puts me. Once I am closer 11:1 then I will leave it there and fine tune with the SAFC.

What do you mean "stock flow". Stock AFR? Why would I want to be at a stock AFR? I don't want to be running around with a 12.5:1 AFR

No need at all for an FMU. An FMU only comes in handy if I am signficantly lean in a large portion of my RPM band. A Z32 MAF and A32 MAF do not have exactly the same voltage curves. No, my AFR's are not even across the board when using a stock ECU, Z32 MAF, and 550's. Then lean out a bit after 5.5K. It is just a matter of pulling some fuel from 3K-5K and adding some fuel from 5.5K-6.5K.

 

I was saying in order to make some preliminary figures, you should try to calculate it out first, so you will not have to just play around and guess a bunch of different pressures.
I realize that, but the relationship between MAF voltage and injector pulse width, I was referring to what you just said, just in a different way.

Thus the reason why you need to bring down your base fuel pressure. I dropped my base to 26psi and am still dumping fuel in with the A32 MAF. With the Z32 MAF and stock fuel pressure, I was stoich at idle and had near perfect A/F's throughout the rpm band.

Your printout is different than mine then. I just had the flow rate at 43 psi.

Sorry, Close to stock pulse width. Currently with the A32 MAFand the lower fp, I have a stoich idle and run really rich everywhere else. I know what AFR you want, I was referring to the desired A/F for a boosted setup.

I hope that is all that you have to do, but it may not be as simple as that. I mentioned the FMU because both Kirk and I have seen sucess with that setup.

 

That is all I have to do. I have already have the car tuned with the Z32 MAF, 550's, and Stock ECU that way. On my SAFC file 1 is tuned for the stock ECU and file 2 is tuned for the JWT ECU. If I lower my base fuel pressure I will just have to go back with a wide band and redo it. The only reason I would lower base fuel pressue and re-tune is so that I will be pulling less fuel from 3K-5K and adding more fuel from 5.5K-6.5K. I am not gonna go write down my SAFC corrections right now, but they are something like:

-15% to -18% from 3K-5K
-10% at around 5.2K or 5.4K
0% to +3% from 5.5K-6.5K

If I lower base fuel pressure I hope the corrections would look more like

-5% from 3K-5K
+5%to 10% from 5K-6.5K

Much better for stock timing.

 

agreed.

whos WB will you be using?

 

I need to get my own, but I was using Neal's PLX 500 for the tuning.

The only way I could see using an FMU is if one were to get close to maxing out the Z32 MAF. As the MAF voltage rises the difference in the curves between the A32 and Z32 widens. I am currently seeing 65% AFL via my SAFC.

 

How was that R500, Mike?

 

It was nice, alot of features but we just used the WB function. You can tell it is a little home brew, kinda like the zeitronix but nice none the less.

 

Yeah it looks like a nice, but homemade, SAFC. Actually, it reminds me alot of an old Nintendo controller lol. It's definately not as "blingy" as something like an SAFC. It's along the same lines as an Innovate LM1 or Zeitronix as far as "finish" goes.

 

Thanks...I'm not worried about looks though.

How's it for a display, ie AFR easily readable?

 

The unit gets HOT. Like really hot, on the left side where the processor apparently is. There are cooling vents on the back just like an SAFC has, and the information manual says to make sure the back is free of obstruction so that the air can flow in and out of it. After about an hour or 1.5 hours of having it on, it seemed as if the heat had started to affect the display a little bit. The display is backlit in blue, and the text is white (well almost white). As it got hotter, the left side of the display started to lighten a little (become slightly more white), which reduced the contrast between the background blue, and the whitish text. AFR was still perfectly readable, and is actually VERY legible in text form, big, clear, easy to read text, at night. In the late evening when we had first installed it, with the sun low and all, the display is actually a little too dim for my liking. It would be nice if they would incorporate a brightness feature on it. I haven't used it in normal, mid-day light since my car is still down, and we only used it on mikes car in late evening and night, so I don't know how readable it it will be in mid-day lighting.

I'm SLIGHTLY worried about mid-day visibility, and also what would happen to the display if the thing were left on for 4, 5, 6 hours straight, but I don't have any insight to offer on that yet.

 

Hmmmnnn....maybe I'll just get the M250 for now.

Keep me posted.