I was just curious, as I haven't done all that much to my i30 performance-wise, would a twincharged setup be a viable option on these cars... I'm not familiar with how most of the turbo or supercharger setups are piped on 4th gens, which is why I thought I'd ask. Has anyone thought of this type of setup, and what kind of obstacles have you found with this type of setup?

For those that arent familiar with the concept, twincharging uses a supercharger and a turbocharger, the supercharger has a differential bypass valve that compares it's boost to the boost output of the turbo, once the two boosts are equal, the supercharger's valve cuts the super out of the mix and the turbo is used, it provides a smooth, linear power curve with low and high end gains, the setups do tend to be expensive and complicated... I just want to know if it would be possible with a maxima.

 

Anything is possible with $$$. The question are: do you need the power, can you afford the setup, and can the motor handle it?

 

It's possible. It's not practical, nor would it give you better gains than a turbo alone. Being as the only SC kit available is centrifugal and doesn't make peak boost until well higher in the RPM band than a turbo does, that sortof ruins the entire idea for our cars altogether. This sort of idea is geared towards cars that have roots blowers which make appreciable boost almost from idle. Our cars don't therefor the idea is rather ill suited to our cars.

 

The I30 has the engine and diff in the same position as the Z31 300ZX. Just get the turbo engine from a 300ZXT and swap. Be sure to get the EFI harness and other parts from the 300ZXT.

 

J30 does, but the I30 is FWD transversely mounted, just like the Maxima.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

Oh Jesus, I dumber for having read that. If you want to look like you know something at least get the friggn models right. Are you talking about swapping a 1st gen 300zx single turbo in to a j30? Drop in a 454 and b done

 

VERY LOUD NOISES!!!!!

 

Just for the sake of discussion, a smaller TC with fast spool up could be used with the Vortech SC to make a twincharger setup that gives high boost at low-mid rpm with the TC, and by the time it runs out of breath at high rpm the SC is taking over and getting close to making full boost.

The problem with this setup, though (maybe), is the back-pressure the turbine is going to create at high rpm, thus reducing the effectiveness of the SC.

 

the only infiniti that i know of that came with the VG30E is the M30 (its kind of like a luxury Z so to speak, two door and such). the J30 (a 4-door) came with a VG30DE from the Z32 300ZX.

the VH45DE from the Q45 is the best

 

If anyone were to undertake this sort of project hopefully they'd have the good sense to wastegate the turbo properly so that the exhaust bypassed the turbine as it should and avoid that scenario.

 

until you see twincharging on the fastest of race cars... it would be pointless to setup. turbochargers are still the most efficient.

actually, the only thing that would be more efficient would be one of those electric superchargers that utilize a centrifugal compressor. they're actually quite awesome. instant full boost that would stay there till redline and to top that you have the very good efficiency of the centrifugal compression (which can be better than that of a turbo compressor (even though they're the same compressor design)) heat efficiency would be much better and there would be no parasitic losses that most superchargers cause.

the only downsides is that being electric you have to have a pretty decent electric system. also, you can really only use them is bursts of something like 15-20 seconds.... but, if you think about it if you're going to run full throttle on these cars with boost for 15-20 seconds you'll be going quite fast so really that's not too bad. charging might take a little while so you wouldn't be able to run hard them cruise for a few minutes to run hard again (unless you spent a lot of money on one of those capacitor battery sort of things).

i think eventually electric superchargers would probably be the way to go since they can be way more efficient than s/c's and even more efficient than turbos yet have instant boost like a positive displacement s/c and keep it there to redline like a t/c. its nearly perfect.

 

From what I've read, efficient electric superchargers will be viable when the automotive industry changes to a 42 or 48 volt electric system, which is in the works. Until then, the currents involved are a bit too much for good efficiency (ohmic losses are proportional to the current squared, so a system that operates at 4 times the voltage of a system with equivalent power will have one sixteenth the losses).

 

If you just wanted to twin-charge, the easiest way would be to take a small s/c like what you would use on a Honda. (This is an Eaton M45 home made style)


Then take a medium sized turbo with fairly quick response. Say anything from a t3 50 trim, T3 60/63, or a real T3 super 60. Most of the Mitsubishi turbo's would be just as well suited, if not more so. Any TD04, or TD05 would work well. If you wanted a hilarious amount of low/mid response, you could drop down to an IHI rhb52w VJ16 off a thunderbird that would spool extremely fast.
Hang the turbo off the front bank. Choke the Y pipe from the other bank off to say 80-75% of the turbine entry size for 4-8".

Blow the turbo through the supercharger. Then you can intercool it, or intercool after both steps. Who cares.
WaterInjection2Win if you're actually going for big numbers.

That would be the cheapest, most reliable & most feasible way to twin-charge.

 

Electrical supercharger are going to be a complete joke for the foreseeable future.
You could make one that actually did *something* constructive out of R/C Electric Ducted Fan jet components. They have 30,000-45,000 carbon fiber turbines up to 120mm in size. There have been numerous duel motor large turbines, or dual turbines consuming 5,000+ watts. (That's over 6 horsepower)
What you have to understand is that:
1) The parts cost alone will cost no less than several hundred dollars.
2) Battery life would be little with no ability to charge during driving.
3) It would take close to, or exceeding $1000usd in battery cost alone, not including a good charger which alone would cost several hundred more.
4) Huge restriction when not working. probably a restriction on a good engine in the first place.

Note... I said that as an example as to WHY it can not feasibly work using the most powerful hardware currently available. This comes up annoyingly often in the very few Electric Ducted Fan forums we have... Don't be a complete douchebag & clutter our forums with questions. It won't work, We don't care. End of discussion! LoL!

 

Toysrme, If you were timing the s/c for low rpm and the turbo for high and you blow the turbo through s/c, wouldent the roots s/c restrict the turbo?

 

or the turbo would blow the s/c and spin the belt uber fast and give you a rev spike to 16,502 RPM and youd die.

 

lol best answer yet rockfordmax

 

Twincharging a NA (high compression) FWD is not a good use of effort.

Consider this is the extent of the poster's mods:

Modifications:
Cefiro one piece headlights

He has a LONG way to go before considering this

 

(From here out turbo is any centerfugal compressor, S/C is a blower-roots/screw)
I'm just giving the easyest answer to the question. Barring somebody is trying to balance flow & mess with electronic clutches & diverter valves -> Blow the turbo through the S/C.

The blower would lower the turbo's flow to an extint, but understand that the charge is being compressed again regardless. The same thing happens the other way around, but it doesn't work out nearly as well by the time you're done.





RockfordMax
It's become common enough to "non-sequentialy multi-charge" something in the larger high output engine world. Common enough to become legit. Joke if you want...
What you generally see is smaller turbo<s> feeding larger turbo<s>), Or turbo<s> feeding blower<s>. Both have become common place enough to be legit in the last few decades.

Another fun project would be to take a smaller turbo on one bank & feed a large one on the other.

 

how about we stop this now...