95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

How often do you guys replace trannies and how much horse power will they stand till they start blowing gears. i just blew my 3rd gen trann and im sick of it.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

16-18 lbs seems to be the danger zone...redmax blew his tranny around 16lbs on slicks, the teeth off third gear were sheared off. I think Matt had pretty much the same experience with his stock tranny, but his new setup with the cryo'd gears is keeping up with 18lbs nicely!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Transmissions are like the front door on your house. How often and how hard you slam the door determines how long it's going to last. You can get your trans built up, but even a built trans is going to break if you bang it hard enough.

I broke my 3rd gear at 12-14psi, but I have no idea how much hell Hal put it through before it had it. I assume it is the one he went 105 in the 1/8th, 125 in the 1/4, and put 600ft-lb through. I've got a built one in there now and hopefully it will last a bit longer.

maxmaxima91

You Blew it up... Man that sucks, sorry to hear that. Im next im afraid, or scott.

95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

yep blew it today playing with a modded mustang. 5ht gear ripped I think now just about all the gear are locked

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

You don't need much power/torque to blow a 5-speed. I blew 3rd gear with only about 225/225 at the wheels.

IMHO it doesn't really mater how much power you're putting through it. You could be putting 600/600 through it and not blow anything if you drive like your grandma.

Neal's example makes a lot of sense. Give me 15 minutes with a totally stock maxima and I can probably blow up the transmission just by shifting like a freakin maniac.

Still, I don't think our trannies are *that* weak for one thing; they can handle hard launches. That differencial, at least the beefy VLSD looks like it could handle a Sh*tload of abuse. 1st and 2nd gears seem quite strong, it's the higher gears (3,4,5), especially 3rd since it's multiplying the most torque, that are weak. I always wince when I shift into 3rd at the track.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

While 3rd gear is the most common that I've heard of breaking, you broke first gear right? I broke 2nd gear on my buddy's trans missing a shift. But yeah 1st and 2nd have beefier teeth and are thicker than 3rd and on.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Teeth on the 1st two gears seem stronger and the gears themselves are just all-around tougher.

I blew 1st gear because my slick blew off my rim on a launch (Note to self; 9 psi is too low for a 6.5" rim). Big shock that even I felt when it happened. The teeth didn't completely shred until I put the street tires back on. Also it's worth noting that my 1st gear at the time was from an Altima. I never had any problems with the original 1st gear.

I wish the 6-speed trans was bolt on. I'd throw it in with a light flywheel anyday.

The only way to make a stock 5-speed transmission more reliable is to remove weight from the car, and put the lightest wheel/tire combo you can get. The lighter the car, the least stress on the gears.

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

I'm putting down about 225/225 also, no problems as of yet, but its slowly starting to whine in first gear And the pass. side axle seal is starting to sweat

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

I race alot compared to you, so the transmission gets raped a lot more and were it not for two stupid errors/decisions, I don't think I would have blown any gears.

The passenger axle is a lot of fun to change

Nismo3112

iTrader: (12)

Haha no kidding! I have done a total of about 8 1/4 mile passes, 3 of those with the 3.5. Passenger side axle = teh

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

It's not how much boost, it's how much torque.


330-350 whtq and no problems so far. Stock trans with redline heavy duty shock proof gear oil. I shift hard, but don't beat on it.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Redline heavy duty... had forgotten about that. Something to try.

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

The amount of boost would be different depending on turbo, but from my experience 350-400+tq turns them into time bombs regardless of how easy you are on them. Like everyone said, if you abuse them then they will lay down quicker, and with even less power (as stated, you can blow a tranny with a bone stock maxima..)

Brad92SE

iTrader: (9)

I do believe that 3rd gens and 4th gens have the same gear sets. I blew my input shaft gear shortly after a 2nd gear overboost at the track, my guess is around 15psi.

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Do you mind elaborating on the built tranny?

How exactly did you go about doing that, or did you have a trans expert do it?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Search for my post about it that I made describing all I did back around October or so. Somewhere in the september-november timeframe, this year. It's got alot of good info in it.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

All 85-01 maximas have the same internals. 85-94 uses one bellhousing (VG) and 95-01 uses another.

sleepermaxima

iTrader: (2)

IMO hard motor mounts and unsprung clutches greatly add to the shock that is handed down to the gears... that is when the driver's right foot is faster than his/her left. I know there are a bunch of NA max's that have blown gears but the stock tranny has been pretty stout in my case. I have raced it with slicks, 6-puck sprung clutch, 10psi SC, 75 shot. The motor caved before the tranny

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

I've always considered using Redline Shock proof, but thought it would be ineffective given my car being a daily driver, that maybe it wouldn't provide the protection needed during normal conditions. Do you think shock proof would really help protect? That and cryo tx? My tranny is my modded max is already whining. I'm looking to install my 5sp out of my VE into my VG turbo project and was planning on beefing it up before dropping the engine. Looking for best options.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

It saps power. That should be the last resort since you're n/a and can't just turn up the boost to compensate.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I really doubt it takes away any noticeable power.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

According to what i've read, you and mardigrasmax are in disagreement then.

subs1000w

i hate to diagree with mardi but ive never heard of a fluid making a noticable difference even if its alot thinker but no more than 5whp

nismology

iTrader: (8)

He's not the only one that's made this observation though. But since drivetrain loss is a percentage, the more Power/torque you make the more of a hit you'll see.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Only thing I have ever read from Mardi on the topic was that he thought maybe the shock proof gear oil might have been the sucking out some power at a time when he was not making the power he should have been. Not exactly evidence, more of a shot in the dark to explain something he could not figure out at the time. But many other things came to light about his lack of power after that statement. There were many speculations as to why he was down on power and the shock proof gear oil was just a thought.

I make about 21whp per lb of boost with my turbo set up and shock proof gear oil. That is a very good power to boost ratio and right in line or better than any other turbo maxima not running shock proof gear oil. The only was to really know would be back to back dyno's, which probably won't happen. But in the mean time I have no reason to believe I am loosing any noticeable power from my tranny fluid.

95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

Cool where Can I get some shock proof I should have new tranny newxt week to put in and wont to see if I could help it from blowing up so quick. Does shock proof help or is it just some high price fluid for people to think it does?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Could Maybe Might, no proof, but man that is some thick stuff, it has to take a little more power to throw it around. For NA I doubt its needed.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Doesn't the 2000-2001 5-speed have stronger 2nd, 3rd, and 5th? I read that somewhere on the Org.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

No it doesn't. The gears are the same dimensionally, so unless they made them out of stronger material which is highly doubtful, they aren't any stronger.

95turbo gxe

iTrader: (25)

anyone know?

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

I know the gears have identical ratios, but I disagree that Nissan wouldn't have strengthened them for the 5th gen. Why would that be highly doubtful? Unfortunately I'm operating on hearsay so who knows what the real answer is.

98maxsel

When I had my 4th gen, I went thru 3 trannys. 3rd gear went out everytime. Nissans back then were notorious for the "3rd gear" being weak, even in the Sentra SE-R's. I think anything over 225whp on a stock tranny you have to be careful of how hard you shift into 3rd.

Have you guys looked into cyrotreating?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I'm not talking about the gear ratios. If you have access to Rockwell hardness testing machines, fracture strength testing equipment, both a 4th and 5th gen gearset and shafts, and the time and ability to do the fracture strength testing, the Rockwell hardness testing then by all means perform the tests and report back with the data you collect. Lord knows I'd love to be able to say definitively, without a single doubt, if the 5th gen gears are stronger. Unfortunately I do not have access to the above listed equipment nor the knowledge to perform the above listed tests. Maybe a mechanical engineer like StephenMax would have all of equipment access, parts access, as well as the time and inclination to perform these tests.

I do however know something about transmissions being as I work in what is generally accepted to be one of the premier transmission shops in the country. The data I have collected on the dimensions of the gears and the gear teeth gives me no reason to believe the 5th gen gears are any different than the 4th gen gears. The tooth thickness, pitch angle, gear thickness, etc are all identical.

Logically, there is no reason for Aisin to have made the gears any stronger. Gear fracture is incredibly rare. Even on this board it is rare, and it is DEFINATELY no stretch of the truth to say that on average, the folks on this board have more powerful maximas and abuse the drivetrain more than the worldwide average for all maxima owners. Aisin and Nissan care nothing about the ultimate powerhandling of their vehicle's gearbox. They aren't in the business of catering to miniscule percentage of maxima owners who are crazy enough to attempt to put 300, 400, 500, 600tq through their dainty maxima gearbox 10 years after the cars were manufactured. They are in the business of turning a profit. Why would they fix something that causes absolutely no problem or hardship for them whatsoever? Because some wackjobs decided to put triple the amount of torque through their 10 year old gearset?

If there is any evidence currently available indicating that the 5th gen gearset is stronger than the 4th gen gearset I'd like to see it because to date all I've heard is hearsay from folks who have never even had their transmission apart, let alone done side by side measurements and inspections of parts in question.

While the data I provided with regards to this matter is not conclusive, it more than anyone had produced previously. Relying strictly on the data I have available, there is no reason to believe that there is any difference between the 4th and 5th gen gearsets. At this point my data is the most extensive we have to go on, until someone is able to provide even more detailed data - hopefully in the form of multiple instances of fracture testing and hardness testing. Only then can we know with 100% certainty whether or not the 5th gen transmission is any stronger than the 4th gen transmission. It is my contention that there is no difference between the gearsets. That will remain my contention until I am presented with data to the contrary.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Cryo treating results in about a 10-15% increase in strength typically. There are more effective ways to eliminate the weak links in our transmission. Myself and Mardigras have posted about them in the past. I made a large post detailing all that was done to my transmission to strengthen it back in September or October.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Well, a year ago you seemed satisfied with the words of a Nissan insider printed in the June 1999 issue of Road & Track.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Right, and since then I've done measurements and collected some data for myself which indicates the opposite of what was said in the article. I was thanking krismax for mentioning an article that had some info on the subject. I've never seen the article myself. I was just thanking him for providing information. I also thank you for reminding me of that thread as I had forgotten about it, and I'm going to see if I can find the article for myself to see if any more information on it. I still won't be satisfied that they are any stronger until I can read a technical document indicating they are stronger or until I'm provided with data indicating they are stronger. While the article he mentioned indicates they are stronger, that is still far from proof, much like my measurements are far from proof. A year ago many things were satisfactory to many people which have turned out to be false. A year ago there were WMDs in Iraq - there weren't. A year ago people believed the 5th gen had a thicker 3rd gear, it doesnt. A year ago people believed the 5th gen had a double synchro 3rd gear, it doesnt. A year ago people believed that swapping a 3.5 in a 4th gen was impossible, it isn't, etc. What I was satisfied with a year ago and what I'm satisfied with now after more data has come to light are quite often two different things. 50 years ago scientists said that the human genome contained 48 chromosomes, about 45 years ago they amended that conclusion and said it contained 46 chromosomes, etc. A year from now I may have been able to perform the tests I mentioned and may be stating DEFINITIVELY, with no doubt whatsoever that the 5th gen indeed has stronger gears even though they are exactly the same size. Who knows. If more data comes to light anything can happen, but for now all you, me, and everyone else has to go on is the data collected thus far.

Like I said unless you are willing to do the legwork and run the tests yourself, you'll have to trust the hearsay of Nissan PR people or of people who have collected data relating to the subject. Who you believe will just have to be based on your best judgement.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

All RS5F50 trannies have the same gear thickness/strength from '85 to '01. I've seen tons of used gears. It's all interchangeable. It's all the same damn thing. Axxess, 1.8L Pulsar, Stanza, 1st/2nd gen Altimas, 4th, 5.0 gen Maximas. They all have the same strength. The new, 02+ trannies are stronger, but our old rod-driven trans are all equally lame, no matter the application.

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

Even if the Nissan guy was making things up, there is agreement that the 5th gen 5-speed has better synchros and just feels better than the 4th gen 5-speed so that's reason enough to seek out a 5th gen tranny if you need a replacement.

JClaw, you seem to be suggesting the opposite of Neal...namely, that visual inspection is enough to state that there is no difference. Are you saying that by holding a gear in your hand you can tell what grade steel and what metallurgical techniques were used in its manufacture? Can you tell the difference between 18/10 and 18/8 stainless steel in your cookware just by observation? I can't.

subs1000w

why not call a dealer and see if the 3rd gear from an 00-01 has the same part number as a gear from an pre 00 and if the part numbers are the same then more than likly they didnt change it