Aftermarket gearsets, built 5 speeds, 6 speeds, etc.
Just got back into the country and saw this. Thanks for a great post Neal (and the other contributors too).
Timely too, what with the Quaife GD going on right now and me trying to decide what I'm going to do longer term about my tranny...
Timely too, what with the Quaife GD going on right now and me trying to decide what I'm going to do longer term about my tranny...
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
JClaw brought up a very valid point in a discussion we were having - that point was that the 6spd is available with a Helical Limited Slip Differential - a superior design to the viscous limited slip so coveted by many. For some, this is a strong selling point. No need to buy a Quaife. Also better reliability (VLSDs will fail if overheated. Some last 150k miles, others have ruined theirs in a single day of hot lapping around a road course in high powered cars that like to spin one tire coming out of corners - or so I've heard)
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
All of these procedures could also be done to the 6spd if one wanted, and of course you’d end up with a transmission at least a bit stronger than a built 5spd would be.
So IMO, I would suggest going with the 6-speed if one is serious - perhaps 400WHP serious - but not hardcore enough to take the final step and buy the aftermarket gears. Then the 5-speed with the big dog gear set is the strongest option.
But for all that was mentionned (the HSLD, the gear ratios, the stronger stock gears right off the bat) I would rock the 6-speed.
Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
You da man Neal, take'm into the 10's 
(Or at least into the deep 11's hundreds and hundreds of times with no more broken gears!) For he's a jolly good fellow... sing it with me... that nobody can deny! 
(Or at least into the deep 11's hundreds and hundreds of times with no more broken gears!) For he's a jolly good fellow... sing it with me... that nobody can deny! And dude - please tell me you aint quitting till 10.99 shows up on your timeslip with a stock VQ30
Originally Posted by JClaw
But for all that was mentionned (the HSLD, the gear ratios, the stronger stock gears right off the bat) I would rock the 6-speed.
I dunno if you saw my post or not but: http://forums.maxima.org/oldpost.php...2&postcount=10
Last edited by Nealoc187; Sep 18, 2007 at 01:18 PM.
Yep. Because of the better gearing it eats up the extra drivetrain loss. 1 more point for the 6-speed (now we just need to find out if they make aftermarket gear sets for the 6-speed, the same trans is used on the Tiburon and other cars definately).
The 3-4 shift is a problem on the 5-speed too. With the stock 3.82 gearing, if your car is NA you will NEVER be able to fully take advantage of 4th gear because it tops out at over 125 MPH and the moment you are trapping higher than 100, 105 mph TOPS, you have to shift into 4th.
With that said, if one really wanted to do an ideal, efficient, bulletproof 5-speed build for a lightweight NA car, this is what I would do:
OPEN Diff 5-speed transmission
Quaife
4.471 Axxess ring and pinion
Shot penned and deburred 1st and 2nd gears
PPG 3rd and 4th gear sets
0.74 1993-2001 Altima 5th gear for reasonable highway RPMs
The 4.4 final drive actually relieves the stress from the drivetrain because it makes it easier to take the car from a complete stop to rolling. And of course it enables you to FULLY use 4th gear without having to trap 120+mph.
To note that the 4.47 gear will ONLY fit on an OPEN DIFF differencial (thus the Quaife too) because it uses a 10 bolt pattern VS the 14 bolt pattern on the VLSD tranny. I know this first hand, Ive opened my trans 3 times (it was 2 summers ago already). And finally, 3rd gen guys are often forgotten but the 4.47 gearing WILL work on any 1985-2001 5-speed Open Diff.
Krismax, Im looking at you
The 3-4 shift is a problem on the 5-speed too. With the stock 3.82 gearing, if your car is NA you will NEVER be able to fully take advantage of 4th gear because it tops out at over 125 MPH and the moment you are trapping higher than 100, 105 mph TOPS, you have to shift into 4th.
With that said, if one really wanted to do an ideal, efficient, bulletproof 5-speed build for a lightweight NA car, this is what I would do:
OPEN Diff 5-speed transmission
Quaife
4.471 Axxess ring and pinion
Shot penned and deburred 1st and 2nd gears
PPG 3rd and 4th gear sets
0.74 1993-2001 Altima 5th gear for reasonable highway RPMs
The 4.4 final drive actually relieves the stress from the drivetrain because it makes it easier to take the car from a complete stop to rolling. And of course it enables you to FULLY use 4th gear without having to trap 120+mph.
To note that the 4.47 gear will ONLY fit on an OPEN DIFF differencial (thus the Quaife too) because it uses a 10 bolt pattern VS the 14 bolt pattern on the VLSD tranny. I know this first hand, Ive opened my trans 3 times (it was 2 summers ago already). And finally, 3rd gen guys are often forgotten but the 4.47 gearing WILL work on any 1985-2001 5-speed Open Diff.
Krismax, Im looking at you
Originally Posted by JClaw
The 4.4 final drive actually relieves the stress from the drivetrain because it makes it easier to take the car from a complete stop to rolling. And of course it enables you to FULLY use 4th gear without having to trap 120+mph.
To note that the 4.47 gear will ONLY fit on an OPEN DIFF differencial (thus the Quaife too) because it uses a 10 bolt pattern VS the 14 bolt pattern on the VLSD tranny. I know this first hand, Ive opened my trans 3 times (it was 2 summers ago already). And finally, 3rd gen guys are often forgotten but the 4.47 gearing WILL work on any 1985-2001 5-speed Open Diff.
Krismax, Im looking at you
To note that the 4.47 gear will ONLY fit on an OPEN DIFF differencial (thus the Quaife too) because it uses a 10 bolt pattern VS the 14 bolt pattern on the VLSD tranny. I know this first hand, Ive opened my trans 3 times (it was 2 summers ago already). And finally, 3rd gen guys are often forgotten but the 4.47 gearing WILL work on any 1985-2001 5-speed Open Diff.
Krismax, Im looking at you
Originally Posted by nismology
You do that and you're looking at like 4000+ RPM at 80 MPH.
But I forgot to add that in my post so Ill add it now.
Well i was basing that on the fact that with the 5-speed the rpm's are around 3300-3400 @ 80. With such a drastic shortening of the final drive ratio the RPM's @ 80 would be around 4000 or more. I was just speaking in terms of stock gear ratios.
Mine was 3000 flat at 120 kmh which translates into 74 mph. And we all know the stock tach is optimistic. That was on WORN stock SE Yokohama 215-60-15 tires. In all cases the RPM rise with the .74 5th gear will only be a little less than 300, which aint nothing to commit brutal suicide about. 
Originally Posted by hacim105
How does the nissan HLSD compare to quaife?
Fundamentally they are the same. The Quaife is a helical planetary gear limited slip differential just like the OEM nissan HLSD. Whether or not there is a significant strength difference between the two, I don't know. I haven't seen inside either differential.
Thats why the 6-speed is such a good deal. You can buy two 6-speed transmissions for the price of the Quaife alone. One in the the car and one spare that you can shot pen meantime and ready to go in if you blow 3rd cause youre putting down 400+WTQ.
Getting closer, one down, one to go. Those other gears sure do look weak compared to the new ones...
The new input shaft should be here tomorrow and I will send it out to be treated and have it back within a week. After that, its assembly time. I hope I don't have to order any shims, I do have a large variety now.
The new input shaft should be here tomorrow and I will send it out to be treated and have it back within a week. After that, its assembly time. I hope I don't have to order any shims, I do have a large variety now.
Originally Posted by 96sleeper
Getting closer, one down, one to go. Those other gears sure do look weak compared to the new ones...
The new input shaft should be here tomorrow and I will send it out to be treated and have it back within a week. After that, its assembly time. I hope I don't have to order any shims, I do have a large variety now.
The new input shaft should be here tomorrow and I will send it out to be treated and have it back within a week. After that, its assembly time. I hope I don't have to order any shims, I do have a large variety now.
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
I've actually been considering trying to get an HLSD to work in the 5spd, but being as I don't have an HLSD sitting around it hasn't gone much further than being a thought in the back of my head.
oh no you didont!
Wonderful thread filled with more information regarding transmissions than I've read anywhere on on the org; thank you!
If I purchased a third and fourth gears from PPG, is there a need or benefit to having them shotpeened and deburred? Or will those processes have been applied to them already?
If I purchased a third and fourth gears from PPG, is there a need or benefit to having them shotpeened and deburred? Or will those processes have been applied to them already?
Originally Posted by THT
Wonderful thread filled with more information regarding transmissions than I've read anywhere on on the org; thank you!
If I purchased a third and fourth gears from PPG, is there a need or benefit to having them shotpeened and deburred? Or will those processes have been applied to them already?
If I purchased a third and fourth gears from PPG, is there a need or benefit to having them shotpeened and deburred? Or will those processes have been applied to them already?
I chose not to do anything to the PPG gears. PPG says they are good for 500-600hp, so I decided not to mess with them. Just focus on the rest of your gears. They are probably deburred at the factory, but they are not shot-peened.
I just took the car for its first test drive after the addition of the PPG 3rd and 4th straight cut gearsets. Some people were concerned about the noise that these would make. The transmission is silent in gears 1,2,5 just as I had hoped it would be. In 3rd and 4th gear, it was as we thought, the sound that reverse makes, high pitched gear whine. It is really not as loud as I thought it would be though. I am extremely pleased. I am glad I took a gamble on these, and thanks to Neal and Mardi for all the help. I will post another update when I have a little more seat time.
I made alot of other changes to the car at the same time, so it will take some getting used to before I can report (lightweight flywheel, clutchnet 6puck clutch, VLSD tranny and PPG 3rd and 4th gears, V1 S/C kit and all the acc.) It is hard to believe I have been down for almost 6 months.
I got tired of waiting for shims on backorder for the differential, so I made my own. Luckily I had the main shaft and input shaft shims on hand from a previous build. Everything on the installation of these is straight-forward if you have a FSM. (And a way to measure for the main shaft shims.)
I made alot of other changes to the car at the same time, so it will take some getting used to before I can report (lightweight flywheel, clutchnet 6puck clutch, VLSD tranny and PPG 3rd and 4th gears, V1 S/C kit and all the acc.) It is hard to believe I have been down for almost 6 months.
I got tired of waiting for shims on backorder for the differential, so I made my own. Luckily I had the main shaft and input shaft shims on hand from a previous build. Everything on the installation of these is straight-forward if you have a FSM. (And a way to measure for the main shaft shims.)
After a little more driving and some time on the dyno, 3rd is not very loud at all, I barely notice it most of the time. 4th gear on the other hand is pretty loud and I definately notice the whine. It is not obnoxious or anything, but I am glad that 5th gear is stock so silence is only a gear away for long interstate driving.
Originally Posted by mtcookson
A 5-speed should theoretically be better with boosted engines anyways due to the way they make the torque. I've noticed a lot of guys getting better times with wider gearing gearing when going with a boosted engine. I don't know of the 6-speed's gearing off hand but I'd assume it would be quite a bit more narrow than the 5-speed, depending on the diff. ratio.
Just got new fidanza flywheel + act clutch kit, and the 3rd and 4th helical cut with syncro engagement gears from par-engineering, I`m very exited to put them in! I`ve blown third before from to much torque i guess, i was making 335whp 320 lb/ft @9psi and i boosted to 11.5psi and third just shattered. I eventually want to change the input shaft+1st and 2nd+syncros+++ in the tranny but its very expensive and will have to wait till next summer!
Post back after install!
Post back after install!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 299
From: Montreal Canada
I was told it works, but I'm pretty sure your right! If i end up doing it next summer I'd have them make one custom that fits. But for now I'm very exited to do 3rd and 4th and put in some red line mt-90 or maybe some royal purple gear oil, or maybe neo gear oil? not sure yet!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 299
From: Montreal Canada
As is easily seen in the pics the teeth are fewer in number on the par gears and less angeled the stock teeth are much thinner and pointy compared with the square cuts and thickness of the Par gears!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 299
From: Montreal Canada
!!!!!!!!FIRST EVER!!!!!!!!!!
Full first through forth set with input shaft and needle roller bearings for nissan maxima made by PAR;
As seen in the photos set has been made with the lagest tooth profile possible!
Pics are of helical cut set, straight cut is available as well!!
Set comes with superior design with gears ridding on needle bearings!
1st-4th set with input shaft and needle bearings
is available now in both helical and straight cut for 4000$AUD
-This is the first ever full 1st-4th set built for the nissan maxima and the first to have the superior benefits of needle bearings! Fifth gear can be purchased as well and ratio can be adjusted!!
THANKS goes out To PAR Engineering for making this set possible for all us maxima lovers who hate our garbage stock 5spd!!!
PM if need answers to questions!
Full first through forth set with input shaft and needle roller bearings for nissan maxima made by PAR;
As seen in the photos set has been made with the lagest tooth profile possible!
Pics are of helical cut set, straight cut is available as well!!
Set comes with superior design with gears ridding on needle bearings!
1st-4th set with input shaft and needle bearings
is available now in both helical and straight cut for 4000$AUD
-This is the first ever full 1st-4th set built for the nissan maxima and the first to have the superior benefits of needle bearings! Fifth gear can be purchased as well and ratio can be adjusted!!
THANKS goes out To PAR Engineering for making this set possible for all us maxima lovers who hate our garbage stock 5spd!!!
PM if need answers to questions!
Last edited by mooseq30; May 15, 2008 at 01:47 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 299
From: Montreal Canada
Pictures of the shaft and gears from PAR
If you notice the teeth are backwards in the middle photo its cause when I photo shopped them together I flipped that photo rev the teeth, sorry!
3rd PAR gear, 4th PAR gear, and 5th stock gear are all ridding on needle roller bearings now instead of the stock metal on metal design!
If you notice the teeth are backwards in the middle photo its cause when I photo shopped them together I flipped that photo rev the teeth, sorry!
3rd PAR gear, 4th PAR gear, and 5th stock gear are all ridding on needle roller bearings now instead of the stock metal on metal design!
Last edited by mooseq30; May 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM.
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Hi, im new here and I have a question about the diff on the RS5F50 gearbox.
As the gearbox in my car is an open wheel diff, can the diff be replaced with a stock LSD unit. Will the LSD fit inside my diff housing and what is involved in this?
As the gearbox in my car is an open wheel diff, can the diff be replaced with a stock LSD unit. Will the LSD fit inside my diff housing and what is involved in this?
installing it is a very small part. Finding one for our transmissions is the challenge. the 4th gen transmissions never came with LSD, some of the I30 and Canadian versions of the Maxima had a VLSD. Some 5th gens had an LSD but I'm not sure if that fits into the 4th gen transmission.
I know at least the driver side of the transmission case is different because the bearing is much larger on the VLSD. I did not compare the other half of the case when I swapped mine.
I seem to remember trying to mate the case halves at one point and discovering that it wouldn't work but I might be imagining that - memory is foggy on that. I will try to mate my VLSD case with open diff bell housing in the next few days at work if I remember, and I will report back. I have both of them sitting disassembled on a shelf.
As stated, you can't just put the VLSD in the open diff case because of the bearing size difference.
As stated, you can't just put the VLSD in the open diff case because of the bearing size difference.
