few questions: built n/a 3.5 and use later for sc
10-08-2007, 09:56 PM
#1
few questions: built n/a 3.5 and use later for sc
Ok I have a few questions...but please look through the parts list first for the 3.5 built.
parts that i have:
eagle rods/arp rod bolts
cam spacers
ngk iridium ix spark plugs
nissan works phenolic intake spacer
parts on order:
arp head studs
arp main bolts
cosworth hg
parts looking that I'm thinking about getting:
forged pistons (wiseco 8.8:1)
used nismo tune r cams or brian crower stage 2 cams
brian crower dual valve springs/retainers
cosworth main bearings set (std)
cosworth rod bearings set (std)
cosworth trust bearing set
(i might port and polish the upper plenum and LIM myself)- dremel or air die grinder?
I am planning to do a 3.5 built motor and supercharge it as well. Problem is, I want to drive N/A for awhile till after the winter. It will be SCed by late feb/early march. I'm trying to find a good set of pistons under $600 and found wiseco pistons 8.8:1 cr for 559+ shipping.
Now, is it ok to drive around a built 3.5 n/a with out any major problems? I know the compression ratio is really low and won't be making a lot of power compared to a stock vq35. Possible side effects by doing so? I suppose I should not drive hard at all...maybe up to 4.5k rpm. Any inputs would be great.
I'm also looking for the right set of cams to use for n/a and can use for boost as well. Brian Crower's site stated their stage 2 cams "Excellent all purpose spec"
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
parts that i have:
eagle rods/arp rod bolts
cam spacers
ngk iridium ix spark plugs
nissan works phenolic intake spacer
parts on order:
arp head studs
arp main bolts
cosworth hg
parts looking that I'm thinking about getting:
forged pistons (wiseco 8.8:1)
used nismo tune r cams or brian crower stage 2 cams
brian crower dual valve springs/retainers
cosworth main bearings set (std)
cosworth rod bearings set (std)
cosworth trust bearing set
(i might port and polish the upper plenum and LIM myself)- dremel or air die grinder?
I am planning to do a 3.5 built motor and supercharge it as well. Problem is, I want to drive N/A for awhile till after the winter. It will be SCed by late feb/early march. I'm trying to find a good set of pistons under $600 and found wiseco pistons 8.8:1 cr for 559+ shipping.
Now, is it ok to drive around a built 3.5 n/a with out any major problems? I know the compression ratio is really low and won't be making a lot of power compared to a stock vq35. Possible side effects by doing so? I suppose I should not drive hard at all...maybe up to 4.5k rpm. Any inputs would be great.
I'm also looking for the right set of cams to use for n/a and can use for boost as well. Brian Crower's site stated their stage 2 cams "Excellent all purpose spec"
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
10-08-2007, 11:21 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 547
Ok I have a few questions...but please look through the parts list first for the 3.5 built.
parts that i have:
eagle rods/arp rod bolts
cam spacers
ngk iridium ix spark plugs
nissan works phenolic intake spacer
parts on order:
arp head studs
arp main bolts
cosworth hg
parts looking that I'm thinking about getting:
forged pistons (wiseco 8.8:1)
used nismo tune r cams or brian crower stage 2 cams
brian crower dual valve springs/retainers
cosworth main bearings set (std)
cosworth rod bearings set (std)
cosworth trust bearing set
(i might port and polish the upper plenum and LIM myself)- dremel or air die grinder?
I am planning to do a 3.5 built motor and supercharge it as well. Problem is, I want to drive N/A for awhile till after the winter. It will be SCed by late feb/early march. I'm trying to find a good set of pistons under $600 and found wiseco pistons 8.8:1 cr for 559+ shipping.
Now, is it ok to drive around a built 3.5 n/a with out any major problems? I know the compression ratio is really low and won't be making a lot of power compared to a stock vq35. Possible side effects by doing so? I suppose I should not drive hard at all...maybe up to 4.5k rpm. Any inputs would be great.
I'm also looking for the right set of cams to use for n/a and can use for boost as well. Brian Crower's site stated their stage 2 cams "Excellent all purpose spec"
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
parts that i have:
eagle rods/arp rod bolts
cam spacers
ngk iridium ix spark plugs
nissan works phenolic intake spacer
parts on order:
arp head studs
arp main bolts
cosworth hg
parts looking that I'm thinking about getting:
forged pistons (wiseco 8.8:1)
used nismo tune r cams or brian crower stage 2 cams
brian crower dual valve springs/retainers
cosworth main bearings set (std)
cosworth rod bearings set (std)
cosworth trust bearing set
(i might port and polish the upper plenum and LIM myself)- dremel or air die grinder?
I am planning to do a 3.5 built motor and supercharge it as well. Problem is, I want to drive N/A for awhile till after the winter. It will be SCed by late feb/early march. I'm trying to find a good set of pistons under $600 and found wiseco pistons 8.8:1 cr for 559+ shipping.
Now, is it ok to drive around a built 3.5 n/a with out any major problems? I know the compression ratio is really low and won't be making a lot of power compared to a stock vq35. Possible side effects by doing so? I suppose I should not drive hard at all...maybe up to 4.5k rpm. Any inputs would be great.
I'm also looking for the right set of cams to use for n/a and can use for boost as well. Brian Crower's site stated their stage 2 cams "Excellent all purpose spec"
Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
As for the pistons and cams, I'm sure that there are people here that can give you a qualified answer, unfortunately, I am not one of them.
But yes, that compression ratio does seems a little weak for a N/A VQ. I'm sure as long as you can have it tuned right, it could work, just dont edpect to win any races
With that low of a compression, would others suggest, "gulp", 85 octane gas? would the ECU know the difference (probably not)? I would ask myself (and the org
) if actually running a high-octane gas would be more detrimental than a lower octane gas? I don't know, sorry, I'm no help lol
10-09-2007, 11:14 PM
#3
yea....just that i dont have the money to blow out everything at once because i have plans for a 6spd after the motor swap...i don't want to spend money on 2 different clutches you know? my 5spd has some problems shifting to 3rd and reverse and i dont think it will last....but thanks for the feedback!
10-10-2007, 05:43 AM
#4
What cosworth headgasket did you get? I know they discontinued the .075 thickness ones....and only offer a thickness of .06.
I ordered a 96mm stock bore HG with a thickness of .075, they told me it was discontinued, so I went and had one custom made for my application from Cometic.
Also consider the cooling: I got a nismo thermostat as well as a Rev-Up oil pump, that in combo with Aarons spacers should prove to drop the engine temps drastically.
As far as cams, if your looking to have a good FI cam, without the crazy cost the OEM rev-up Z cams seem to have a real nice profile for boost. I went with those and you'd be surprised how cheap you can get them for. We'll see what happens when I drop the engine in.
I ordered a 96mm stock bore HG with a thickness of .075, they told me it was discontinued, so I went and had one custom made for my application from Cometic.
Also consider the cooling: I got a nismo thermostat as well as a Rev-Up oil pump, that in combo with Aarons spacers should prove to drop the engine temps drastically.
As far as cams, if your looking to have a good FI cam, without the crazy cost the OEM rev-up Z cams seem to have a real nice profile for boost. I went with those and you'd be surprised how cheap you can get them for. We'll see what happens when I drop the engine in.
10-10-2007, 07:59 AM
#5
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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IMO you will not make enough power with a supercharger to warrant the cost of building the engine. A turbo would be a different story. There are many VQ35 people at the power limit of a S/C setup on the stock engine, many of the 350z guys have been running for years making that much power.
Also IMO, now that I have a high-powered maxima, I realize that any power over what a stock 3.5 can take is too much for fwd anyway.
Also IMO, now that I have a high-powered maxima, I realize that any power over what a stock 3.5 can take is too much for fwd anyway.
10-10-2007, 08:25 AM
#6
Low-compression pistons for the power levels you're looking for = lost power, plain and simple. I'd go forged @ stock compression, if anything.
As for the ARP hardware, ARP main studs are way overkill for your power levels and the standard head studs are not a strong as the stock bolts. To do better than stock, you need to get the L19's.
As for the ARP hardware, ARP main studs are way overkill for your power levels and the standard head studs are not a strong as the stock bolts. To do better than stock, you need to get the L19's.
10-10-2007, 08:30 AM
#7
Originally Posted by nismology
If there was ever a scenario where cam timing selection was important it's with the rev-up cams. The cam timing chart that shows -4 degrees of overlap only assumes the intake CVTC is off. The exhaust CVTC is still on and in the advanced mode, meaning the exhaust cams are retarded with the CVTC off (not depicted in the chart). This will increase overlap a whole lot if you simply do the 180* on the exhaust sprockets.
10-10-2007, 09:13 AM
#8
Understood. The person doing the install knows all the timing info, and will be custom machining the cam adapters. I'm in good hands. I'll definitly report back.
I can TRY and compare dyno's...from before I blew the engine, and this setup. However, it's apples to oranges since I added a couple things in addition to the cams.
10-10-2007, 09:28 AM
#9
All these motor building mods are a colossal waste of time and money for you. You won't make enough power to overwhelm the stock internals with an SC. The only way you'll break your motor is if you havea crappy tune in it, in which case you'd eventually break a built motor too and you'd be out $6000 or whatever.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
10-10-2007, 09:51 AM
#10
All these motor building mods are a colossal waste of time and money for you. You won't make enough power to overwhelm the stock internals with an SC. The only way you'll break your motor is if you havea crappy tune in it, in which case you'd eventually break a built motor too and you'd be out $6000 or whatever.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
10-10-2007, 10:30 AM
#11
To get a good tune you either learn to tune yourself or you get out there and start talking to people, find out what experiences folks have had with different tuners, find out who's reputable, etc.
10-10-2007, 01:05 PM
#13
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As far as tuning, 11.5:1 AFR, pull 4 degrees timing at high rpms and for the love of God DON'T rev the stock, boosted engine above 6500 even if it has ARP rod bolts. The three things that kill the engine are high piston speeds, too aggressive timing, and lack of fuel. But if you do a 3-2 on a stock boosted engine, who the hell knows what would happen. It could live, but I would be scared into granny shifting.
Ok 11.5:1 is probably overkill but if you do all of the above, the VQ35 would live a long, happy boosted life at 400whp. I think 450whp is possible reliably too, but above that, I just don't know if I would chance it.
The best reason to build the engine for relatively low power levels is high revs. At one point I wanted to build up a 3.5 with just a Vortech SC just to be able to rev the thing to 7500 under boost. Only build it if you want high revs.
But then again I have to ask, someone like Neal who has had a FWD maxima that traps 120 MPH, what's the point of forging for 700whp? So you can do 145 MPH traps? Spinning 5th on the street? There's only so much a gear specific boost controller will do. The axles and trans will say no thanks way before the engine does. Even the 6-speed would not outlive the stock 3.5. Should you be putting forged rods in your motor or Dog gears in the trans?
That's the thing with a built engine. VQ's are so goddamn cheap, why spend 4000-4500$ on a built engine when you can get 6 or 7 good VQ35's for that price. One built engine? Or 7 stock engines in your garage? Make sure you have CAA, get a bunch of 600$ VQ35's, put them in your garage and learn to tune yourself. The third engine will be the good one
Last edited by JClaw; 10-10-2007 at 01:47 PM.
10-10-2007, 01:12 PM
#14
tuning ... hummmm ... gotta read up on that, I guess... and what to do with the MEVI ??
10-10-2007, 04:53 PM
#16
All these motor building mods are a colossal waste of time and money for you. You won't make enough power to overwhelm the stock internals with an SC. The only way you'll break your motor is if you havea crappy tune in it, in which case you'd eventually break a built motor too and you'd be out $6000 or whatever.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
Spend 10% of what you would shell out for all these useless mods on a good tune and you're set.
I on the other hand will drop in a 3.5 with minimal mods to it and my s/c and call it a day. I personally dont even see the worth of cams when I have boost to make up the deficit and way more power then a fwd dd car can put down reliably
10-12-2007, 07:48 PM
#17
I think Meximax has proven the point that you do not need to build this motor to get maximum power with a supercharger. He hit 426 whp on a stock block with an EU using the smallest pulley. And I agree with others that said once you get up in the 400 whp range for a FWD car, anything higher is pretty much pointless. Just supercharge the stock block and get some after market cams. And I think you are in the NJ area. Before I sold my 95 with the 3.5, I had already spoken to Julian at MRC Motorsports about the tune of a SC on a 3.5 with an EU and he stated he can do it. Thats the only place I would take it in the NE area. They do wonders with the 350z.
Mike
Mike
Last edited by mforrest100; 10-13-2007 at 07:09 AM.
10-12-2007, 10:14 PM
#18
thanks for all your comments. sorry i havent been keeping up with my thread since i was busy at work. I am going to keep the engine stock and going to sell my eagle rods w/arp rod bolts.
mforrest100- what kind of cams do you recommend? I'm looking at brian crower stage 2 cams...do you think they are good for sc? I would like to as well tune the 3.5 sc when its on after the winter. I would be installing another EU probably this month or beginning of next month depending when I get this motor in my car.
Thanks for all your help and will keep you guys updated.
mforrest100- what kind of cams do you recommend? I'm looking at brian crower stage 2 cams...do you think they are good for sc? I would like to as well tune the 3.5 sc when its on after the winter. I would be installing another EU probably this month or beginning of next month depending when I get this motor in my car.
Thanks for all your help and will keep you guys updated.
10-12-2007, 10:15 PM
#19
ive been telling him the same thing for a long time....
I on the other hand will drop in a 3.5 with minimal mods to it and my s/c and call it a day. I personally dont even see the worth of cams when I have boost to make up the deficit and way more power then a fwd dd car can put down reliably
I on the other hand will drop in a 3.5 with minimal mods to it and my s/c and call it a day. I personally dont even see the worth of cams when I have boost to make up the deficit and way more power then a fwd dd car can put down reliably
10-13-2007, 07:16 AM
#20
thanks for all your comments. sorry i havent been keeping up with my thread since i was busy at work. I am going to keep the engine stock and going to sell my eagle rods w/arp rod bolts.
mforrest100- what kind of cams do you recommend? I'm looking at brian crower stage 2 cams...do you think they are good for sc? I would like to as well tune the 3.5 sc when its on after the winter. I would be installing another EU probably this month or beginning of next month depending when I get this motor in my car.
Thanks for all your help and will keep you guys updated.
mforrest100- what kind of cams do you recommend? I'm looking at brian crower stage 2 cams...do you think they are good for sc? I would like to as well tune the 3.5 sc when its on after the winter. I would be installing another EU probably this month or beginning of next month depending when I get this motor in my car.
Thanks for all your help and will keep you guys updated.
Mike
10-13-2007, 08:33 AM
#21
Originally Posted by nismology
As for the ARP hardware, ARP main studs are way overkill for your power levels and the standard head studs are not a strong as the stock bolts. To do better than stock, you need to get the L19's.
10-13-2007, 02:55 PM
#22
yea im actually ordering a brand new rev oil pump and water pump through my friend since he gets a pretty deep discount. i already have a set of arp rod bolts and just got the reg arp head studs.
as for cams..a guy from my350z told me to look into GTM as well but i'm not willing to dish that kind of money on that. I been researching cams for a couple months now and missed out on few good deals like nismo tune r cams for 500 shipped. so im looking at Brian Crower cams to go with this set up that i'm working a deal with this guy and as well with valve springs/retainers- even though I am not over revving on this engine....just for some experience to play around with.
thanks for the reply back.
as for cams..a guy from my350z told me to look into GTM as well but i'm not willing to dish that kind of money on that. I been researching cams for a couple months now and missed out on few good deals like nismo tune r cams for 500 shipped. so im looking at Brian Crower cams to go with this set up that i'm working a deal with this guy and as well with valve springs/retainers- even though I am not over revving on this engine....just for some experience to play around with.
thanks for the reply back.
10-17-2007, 01:59 PM
#23
LOL.....I hear you but I always rather be safe than sorry. I mean if he was willing to spend all that money on the motor build hes not doing anymore, whats it to use a couple of hundred bucks knowing that you are getting top notch ish in securing your motor. Plus when I build things I think about resell value. But I do agree with your suggestion about the L19's. Tell me....what is the difference???
10-17-2007, 02:02 PM
#24
yea im actually ordering a brand new rev oil pump and water pump through my friend since he gets a pretty deep discount. i already have a set of arp rod bolts and just got the reg arp head studs.
as for cams..a guy from my350z told me to look into GTM as well but i'm not willing to dish that kind of money on that. I been researching cams for a couple months now and missed out on few good deals like nismo tune r cams for 500 shipped. so im looking at Brian Crower cams to go with this set up that i'm working a deal with this guy and as well with valve springs/retainers- even though I am not over revving on this engine....just for some experience to play around with.
thanks for the reply back.
as for cams..a guy from my350z told me to look into GTM as well but i'm not willing to dish that kind of money on that. I been researching cams for a couple months now and missed out on few good deals like nismo tune r cams for 500 shipped. so im looking at Brian Crower cams to go with this set up that i'm working a deal with this guy and as well with valve springs/retainers- even though I am not over revving on this engine....just for some experience to play around with.
thanks for the reply back.
Check this thread out. These must be what you are talking about. And its funny that the shop I recommended to you is the one posting up about the cams. Definitely go to them to get the cams and the tune. They can definitely hook you up.
Mike
10-17-2007, 02:15 PM
#25
10-25-2007, 06:10 AM
#26
eh..i dont have my engine hoist with me at all...have to get it back this weekend so i can take apart the dek engine that i have laying around. cosworth never sent me my head gasket either....all the cali guys are busy with SEMA....so it looks like this project will be pushed again =/
10-25-2007, 05:25 PM
#27
have you guys seen the thread on my350z with the stock motor (stock bottom end, minimal mods to the heads) is pushing out 550rwhp. the motor did blow after approx "140+" dyno pulls, and a flaw in the tune was said to be what cause the downfall.
as cheap as these 3.5s are getting, i would buy another 3.5 and have it waiting in the garage.
but if I had to build the motor. I would go with forged stock internal, or stock spec, I feel this be the best of both worlds and I can elaborate should anyone care to hear a semi-boaring rant...
as cheap as these 3.5s are getting, i would buy another 3.5 and have it waiting in the garage.
but if I had to build the motor. I would go with forged stock internal, or stock spec, I feel this be the best of both worlds and I can elaborate should anyone care to hear a semi-boaring rant...
10-27-2007, 01:56 PM
#29
I am waiting on a discount through a local shop.I no longer have a budget.lol
10-28-2007, 05:33 PM
#30
haha yea...got a set of regular arp head studs...i guess i ll just put them on next weekend when i get my head gasket. their taking forever.
just a pic to show from what i was doing last night on a dek motor. some of the bolt sizes were different compared the the vq30de i think. i also noticed the timing chain was a bit loose....does that mean it was stretched?
i didnt take a picture of the timing chain but just a pic when everything is out besides the inner timing chain cover.
i already took the inner timing chain cover off. now i just need to do the 3.5 and waiting on parts =]
anyone need parts out of this motor? cams? valve springs? ect.
also have a set of eagle rods with arp rod bolts for sale. 450 shipped..i ll post it on the forsale thread later today.
just a pic to show from what i was doing last night on a dek motor. some of the bolt sizes were different compared the the vq30de i think. i also noticed the timing chain was a bit loose....does that mean it was stretched?
i didnt take a picture of the timing chain but just a pic when everything is out besides the inner timing chain cover.
i already took the inner timing chain cover off. now i just need to do the 3.5 and waiting on parts =]
anyone need parts out of this motor? cams? valve springs? ect.
also have a set of eagle rods with arp rod bolts for sale. 450 shipped..i ll post it on the forsale thread later today.
Last edited by maximariceboi; 10-28-2007 at 05:38 PM.
10-28-2007, 11:54 PM
#32
10-29-2007, 08:50 AM
#34
Yah I know. I was just pointing out what Sharif said in post #56.
Fine...here: http://www.my350z.com/forum/showpost...1&postcount=59
Fine...here: http://www.my350z.com/forum/showpost...1&postcount=59
10-29-2007, 07:37 PM
#38
hmmm..i guess this is up forsale now too...i couldnt find the thread till you posted that. thanks.
this weekend hopefully i can make some more progress and start on the 3.5 engine. still waiting for my parts...
this weekend hopefully i can make some more progress and start on the 3.5 engine. still waiting for my parts...