mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Well, today I finally put the supercharger kit up for sale. I have decided that the supercharger will not yield the power that I want to achieve. This may be high hopes for a whp goal, but I am hoping for the 600's plus range. I spoke to JWT about getting a new chip written (I want to stay with JWT) and got the details worked out. I will need a Ford Lightning MAF to handle the boost levels and my 600cc injectors should be the only thing that holds me back. However, I don't want to do injectors until I reach the point where they are maxed. I have a feeling the car will be fast enough with the injectors maxed. Anyways, I am building the entire engine in the next few weeks for the turbo. Here are the parts links:
Pistons And Rods
Head Gasket
Rod And Main Bearings
Valves, Springs, Retainers, And Camshafts
The stage 2 camshafts will be all I need, but I am still on the fence about having the heads ported and going with the bigger valves. If I did this, I would have the heads ported for the 2mm bigger stainless steel valves. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

As far as turbo's go, I am a complete newbie. I do already have everything setup to have all the rear mount piping done. Since the turbo is going to be the main source of power, I need to make sure I pick a good one. I am learning how to read the graphs for airflow. A buddy told me to go with a 67mm turbo or bigger for my whp goals. However, he is a "Honda only" guy so I am guessing turbo sizes etc... would be different for a 6 cylinder Nissan engine. What size should I go with? Brand? Wastegates are also something I am new too. What sizes/brands are good ones? I search and try to read when I have the time, but I am still unsure about what to buy.

I wanted to go ahead and post this up early to get some input/ideas for this build. I still have to finish the engine build and break the motor in before the turbo will go on, but I would like to have all the parts together before the break in period is over. Also, 2,000 miles should suffice for a break in period, correct?
Thanks,
Zack

mywhitewolf

why bother with RMT if your going to go to all that trouble anyway? RMT is suppoes to be a cheap and ghetto solution?

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

1. I wish to keep my Cattman headers the way they are.
2. The rmt will reduce heat
3. Fitment issues with the 3.5 swap

I don't see a problem with a rear mount setup. The only downside is an extra 500 rpm's for spool time, but that is not a big deal. Plus, I can go back to stock easily if needed.

maxima92se

iTrader: (7)

Probably a silly question but why wont the SC yield the amount of power you need. I know its 600plus but I think with the right SC i.e T-trim, some upgraded bearings to spin it faster than 55K and a custom pulley say close to 2" I think you should be over 500 to 600hp. Anyway I'm not trying to change your mind just asking as a future reference for myself.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

The main reason is this: I don't want to be limited by the 3.0 timing cover and I want more torque, which the turbo will provide. This way if something happens to the maxima, I can still have a boosted nissan and only have to change the piping.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

COPYCAT!!!!! im the only 4.5 RMT round here!! you dig!

lol, anyways, i figure id give you some tips. Dont worry about the spool up time, I have proven that it does not affect spool up when setup properly, even comparing the same turbo used on my RMT to another maxima that had it mounted in the front. so the slow spool up thing is crap.

as for heat, well, its no different than a regular turbo setup, the benefit is, that the turbo its self is cooler (cus its outside in the open) and you dont melt wires and hoses in ur engine bay, but it WILL still produce same heat in the charged air, im sure you'v heard people say "doing a RMT you dont need an intercooler cuz the length cools down the air" lol, thats complete crap as well. Put it this way, when setting up a RMT, apply the same things you were to apply on a traditionaly mounted turbo setup. The ONLY difference is the oil return, which your going to need a scavange pump to send that oil back to the engine (and can bring you alot of head ache's if you dont know how to go about it or manage the oil's flow)

Goodluck

Ephraim

iTrader: (15)

sweet stuff. it is always cool to see someone doing another project on here. kinda amazing too just for it being a maxima.

-pre-turbo exhaust pipe size?

Flava_24/7

iTrader: (46)

Why are you trying to hit a 600whp mark? Just for the sake of saying you have that much?
Im not bashing, just curious. With that much power being able to actually use it and put it to the ground is going to be impossible.
Why not just save some of the money needed to source all the parts for a 600whp setup and just build a nice 400-450whp setup? Even with those power levels you would be faster then most, traction however would still be somewhat of an issue.

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Most of his other thread he was experiencing belt slipping issues. He was basically about to pull it anyway since that was the case. I would have pulled it too if it didn't want to go past 4 psi much. In the case of wanting high hp, to each his own, the good part is that the motor will be bulletproof (in theory) on the street.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Mainly, I want to be able to reach the 600 whp mark if I want to. As said before, I want to build this now while I have the time, money, etc... and then I can use this motor and turbo in another Nissan if I want too. As for traction, I will get slicks for the track. I obviously can't run 600whp on a daily basis. I will have to decide on a boost level for street driving once it is all set up. For now, those are my goals. For example, if I were to buy a 240sx, I could reuse most of these items. I am sticking with the Maxima for now though, and I have always wanted a 10 second Maxima. With a built 3.5, turbo, and some good driving this might be possible.
Zack

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Doing the 2mm valve bore could give very good gain if done with the P & P. You should replace the stock valve guide for manganese/bronze, the stock the valve seal, Toga make good one. Find a machine shop that have a fully automated C&C, many machine shop can bore the valve seat but many does it with semi manual/automatic machinerie.

When the machine shop did the head on my DEK with a fully automated C&C, the technician was explaining that, the advantage is they had already experienced on hundreds of race car before, so now they new what was the best curve/design for the valve seat, once the info is on the C&C it was a piece of cake. Good luck with da beast.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

set aside money for transmissions every week because if you don't build a trans with aftermarket gears you're going to break the 4th gen trans pretty darn often if you're running 400lb-ft with any sort of regularity, 500+lb-ft and you'd probably break one every 20th time you floored the car.

As far as head work, I wouldn't bother with it unless you just have unlimited funds to throw around. VQ35 heads are some of the best flowing stock heads of any production vehicle, plenty of flow to make 600whp without head work - not something I'd bother with if I were building a VQ35. You are on the right track with the turbo, T67 can make 600wheel without too much trouble on our engines.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Sounds good, I have been researching aftermarket gearsets. I actually just got done reading your gearset sticky. For now, engine build, breakin, turbo. I have a spare tranny already, and I am going to set aside some funds for when that time comes. After the turbo is on, I am going to slowly raise the boost here and there. There is a possibiliy I may not even go up that high in power. The bottom line is, the supercharger wasn't cutting it for me. The turbo will most likely make me happy. I may even call it quits with the maxima after I break a tranny, who knows. Once the turbo is on, we will see what happens.
Zack

doublea

iTrader: (7)

The V2T trim on a VQ35 would have definitely brought you close to 500HP with the 2.62 pulleys. Just a tough but the Turbo is going to generate much more torque wich might be a serious problem for traction.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

That is one reason I didn't like the supercharger. I want the torque and the ability to reuse the turbo on another application if I choose to do so.
Zack

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Did your S/C was a SC ?

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Wait, what!?!?

Carlos

iTrader: (4)

I think he's asking if it was an sc trim supercharger.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

I dunno, that's giving a lot of credit to his statement You may just be right, though.

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

600hp would be useless in a maxima or any other fwd, and neal is right about breaking transmissions. I don't make near that much power and nowhere near the torque of a turbo car, and traction is a serious problem in my car. Making less torque actually helps with traction.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Sorry for the confusion, what I wanted to know is what trim blower you had in your car, was it a SC ? The reason I was asking is, there is not that much maxima folks that run the T trim, those are very efficient supercharger. In my opinion they are probably the best suited to build a high power fwd car like the maxima. With a big Turbo that create monster torque the question is how do you put it to the ground efficiently. I have decided to pick a T trim Vortech for my build DEK, I'm expecting to get something in the 400+ hp so I can imagine that on a build 3.5 you'd be close to 500 if not more but the torque curve is not as furious as with Turbo therefore should yield some better time at the track.

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

As the man said, he only plans to use the ~600whp figure with slicks, implying track-only. He mentioned he will determine how much power he is comfortable with for street-driving. Obviously he can't determine that until the whole setup is done.

Word of advice from my experience= 3.5 on boost... I maxed out my 3" MAF at 374whp/374wtq, and let me tell you, at 75mph I lit my tires up more than once. From 80mph it was sickening to have all that torque steer (yes, scary amounts of torque steer).

As much as I love(d) my turbo setup on the Max, the more I turned up the boost, the more obvious it became that I was making all this power on a platform that can't put it down safely. FWD on a tin-can chassis (mind you that I have SFCs) is just... eh. All that power belongs in RWD or AWD.

Lecture aside, If you can find a nice T67 turbo mated to a T4 turbine with preferably a .68 a/r you'd be set. A bit larger a/r would not hurt at the boost levels you'd be running, but it would just delay spoolup proportionally to the increasing a/r.

I also strongly recommend that you put a sock over the airfilter (or make a way for the filter to get a fresh blast of air, YET not water) on that turbo. Driving it in the rain sucks. It doesnt inject water but it will clog the filter and if you go too fast on the gas the engine will just shutter (annoying).

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

So what ever happened to this project?

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

http://www.nwnissaninfiniti.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

hmm i guess no more turby

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

Can't view the link

nismomaxct

iTrader: (24)

So basically he is staying with the supercharger for all you who cannot view the thread.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Update: The machine shop FINALLY finished my engine yesterday and I am going to start assembling the engine today. I had the machine shop hot tank everything, bore, hone, and deck the block, balance everything, resurface the heads, adjust the valves, and had my valves ground. I will upload pics later tonight. As some of you know I have decided to stay with the supercharger but only for a few months. Then I will figure out the turbo kit. This is my first time assembling an engine. I am a bit worried I will do something wrong, but I am most likely over thinking everything.
The build consists of the following parts:
1. Low mileage crankshaft (I bent mine when I spun the rod bearing)
2. Wiseco Pistons, 8.8:1 96mm
3. Eagle Rods
4. ARP Rod Bolts (Included w/Rods)
5. Debuloz Camshafts (S1 Knockoffs)
6. JWT Valve Springs & Retainer clips
7. New 350z Revup Oil Pump
8. NWP Spacer Kit
9. Slightly used 2.87" pulley (Hopefully will prevent slip)
10. Cometic Headgaskets
11. New Waterpump
12. New gasket set for the entire engine
13. ACL Race Series Rod, Main, and Thrust Bearings (Stock Size)

If anyone has some advice about this I would be happy to hear it. Hopefully this build will go flawlessly, even though I have never done this. I also was reading about the 3.0 oil pan baffles, do they need to be bent no matter what? I will most likely bend them regardless.

Thanks,
Zack

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Do not use the 3.0 oil pan baffle the huge arp rod bolts WILL hit:
Here is a picture of one of the spots the rod bolt will hit:

Below is a picture of where one of the weights from the crank hit the baffle:


When I i didnt know this i turned on the engine for the first time, I am pretty sure I cried lol, the sound of the rod bolt hitting the baffle sounded like spun bearings from hell. Basically the solution would be to use a 3.5 baffle (meximax told me he didnt have issues with his rod/bolts hitting), however I just bent the 3.0 baffle a good amount to clear everything, including the weight. My mistake was also that I did not rotate the motor with the oil pan installed (motor out of car), you should do it. just put pan on with no silicone to test.


Below is a post I made on the 350z forum, someone was asking for advice, now I am no expert but I did assemble my block for the 1st time, so hopefully use can use some of the info:

"Im no engine builder, but I did build my own engine. Few tips I could offer you based on my experience, it being my first engine ever to build. TAKE YOUR TIME!!! dont rush through any part no matter how easy it may be, the smallest thing, is what ends up being the cause of a major issue.

Get yourself a bottle or two of assembly lube (they come in a red see-through bottle with white cap) this thing is awesome, if you use oil to lube things while assembling them, the oil will run and eventually end up with dry parts by the time you get to crank ur motor. fill your cams with it, as well as your timing equipment(sprockets, all over the chains, etc...), use the lube provided by the manufacture of w/e Rods your using, for bearings lubrication, ofcourse make sure the back side of the bearings are completely dry! First time i put an engine together (VQ30), i didnt lube the timing equipment nor cams, when i started the motor it sounded like it was going to fall apart. with the built 3.5, it turned over as if it had been running already, not a single noise (so use the assembly lube).

When you put the heads on, make sure the head bolt holes are completely clean, no metal shaving or anything, this is obvious stuff but can be missed.

When you torque down the rod bolts, first call the manufacture of the rods, and ask them the torque spec, and how many times to tighten and loosen. Eagle rods with ARP2000 bolts required to retorque like 3-4 times to get the proper stretch (this is what i did), and make sure you put the assembly lube they provide on the bottom of the bolt head, and on the thread, to get the proper friction when torquing. When your doing this, get a paper and write down which bolt you just did and how many times have you retorqued it. Any distraction will really throw you off lol.

When your putting in the piston, make sure the crank journal for that piston is at the bottom, so when you hammer it in the rod dosnt hit and scratch the journal, also make sure the dot on top of the piston is pointing to the front of the engine. You should also get your piston rings file fitted. Also, try finding a shop that will use a torque plate to bore/hone your block, if you dont know what torque plate is, basically its a plate you bolt onto the block to mimic the heads, since when you torque the heads down there is some stretching of metals and warping going on, so when the plate is bolted down to spec, they then bore and hone it, resulting in perfectly round bores given the torque of the head bolts.

Setting the timing is not hard at all, i got the thing memorized, but the FSM gives you the best instructions you can find. Study that thing like if you had a test (well you do, when you crank the motor is when u get ur test result lol. BOOM = fail), if your going to end up doing timing urself, the tensioners for the chains, put oil on the inside part of them, and release and press on the tensioner lil piston, this will suck the oil into it, and provide pressure on the piston, I do this to prevent the chain's from skipping when you initially crank the motor.

Like I said, I am no expert, nor do I even have a shop. I did this stuff in my room, and backyard and had my old man holding the motor while i torqued things down lol. Just trying to give you a few tips i found very useful. goodluck"

You basically have my exact same build except i went with HR head gasket and head bolts. goodluck

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Hey!! To get some good mileage on the engine so you can get to boost faster you need to come down and see me.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the help Streetz , I will definitely use that information. The machine shop did use a torque plate when they did the cylinder work. I forgot to mention that when I tore the engine down back in June, my cam bearings looked TERRIBLE. Turns out, the person who last sealed the small pieces on the heads (next to the valve covers, has bearings built in for cams as well) put sealant in the cam journals! I don't understand why someone would do that. I will post an update later about how everything is coming along.

Andrew, I was already planning on making a trip down there! Then you can lol.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Your welcome, alot of guys here helped me out, specially meximax which gave me lots of tips.

Oh and if you do break in the motor by doing a long trip, make sure you dont keep a constant RPM for a long time, you have to go up and down the rpm range and varying loads, specially with alot of engine breaking. Def dont baby the car either, but dont go all out. I would take of the SC belt if i were you, at least for the first 1k mile, so you can drive semi aggressive with no boost. The break in stuff was the hardest to be honest since there are countless theories as to how to do it, i learned that most people just drive it the way it was built for, racing lol. I went in between. by 2k I was already doing some WOT at 5psi. Now far from being broken in (like 5k), im at 15psi


Also get some "Comp Cam break in additive", its good stuff with lots of zinc, thats what I have been using to break in my motor and have actually continued to use it even after break in. Along with conventional oil NOT synthetic!!!, everyone I have talked to has told me to please not use synthetic during break in period at least for the first 4k mile. The Comp Cam and not using synthetic advice was from a reputable builder that did my machine work, he builds alot of VG's too.

For the very first start, use some cheap oil, the proper weight ofcourse, but something cheap, and maybe like half bottle of the additive, let it idle and get warm, then turn off and drain that oil, then put in the oil you will be using. I drained the oil like 2 or 3 times before even driving the car, because of the oil pan baffle issue, backyard looked like a storage facility with a million bottles lol.


Quick question, what are you going to use to fasten the heads? TTY head bolts or arp studs/nut?
- I dont have experience with ARP Studs/Nut but I have always read that you should heat cycle the engine, like going for a drive, then letting cool down, then again, etc.. (some shop actually lets the car idle with no fans to almost overheat, then let it cool completely and repeate), After that, the nuts are retorqued into spec. A buddy of mine failed to do this and tightend them only once on his Built Ecotec (cobalt SS turbo), and had headlift/crackedblock/disaster lol.

-If you go with TTY bolts like HR head bolts you wont have that problem, just tighten to spec, and angle tighten and your set. plus HR bolts have proven themselves to be tough, longer and require more torque, which is a big plus. If you have not bought the cometic HG yet i recommend the HR gasket as well in combination with the HR bolts (this is how i did it), reason being is that it also improves cooling alot, you have to slightly modify the block so it can improve the flow of cooalnt. I have not had a single cooling issue, matter of fact i think my cooling system is a little bit TOO efficient lol, my average temps are at 177degree's when cruising, if i floor it it actually drops (and I got miami weather 95degree's lol)

* the HR coolant flow improvement is due to the fact that the passages to the heads are at the exhaust valve position on EACH cylinder, the normal DE gaskets including the Cometics only have coolant passage on ONE cylinder on each head, so not all cylinder are getting equal cooling.
check this out: http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wol...HEAD_BOLTS.pdf

* as per my research on how much the HR headgasket and bolt can handle, I concluded that 550WHP is the most Id push for, maybe even 600WHP, this is based on previous builds on the Z forum along with chat's iv had with reputable informed people on there. Anything above 600 the headgasket is still great but the bolts should be upgraded as there is a case of headlift at 680whp which was concluded to be bolts, L19 head studs in that case would be recommended.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Does the oil really need to be changed immediately after first turning it on? I was told to change the oil at 100 miles, then 500, then 1,000-1,500. Is synthetic a bad idea after the breakin for a built, high hp engine?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Refresh for previous post i made, i added good info.

Synthetic after break in, I am actually wondering the same thing, and right now i have castrol GTX with that additive i said, but I just bought Rotellla T6, 5W40 Synthetic, which will be the first synthetic oil this engine will see. It has proven to be a GREAT oil and alot cheaper than the uber brands. Id say, yes synthetic is always a good thing, im not no oil expert, actually still not used to reading the lab results, but synthetic has better heat resistance, wear protection, and etc... specially for turbo in my case which burn down the oil alot. Part reason I am also switching is cuz im getting alot of noise at cold start with 10w40 dino. the synthe will take care of that.

I recommend at least drain it once right after you start it, reason being is that while assembling you may have debre or just random crap in the block, maybe shavings from the machine work, silicone floating around, etc.. i recommend it, wont hurt. well just another $20 of oil lol but worth it, dont cheap out on anything related to a build.

oh and get ready for piston slaps when cold lol, lil annoying but u really have to let the car warm up completely before driving, at least before getting hard on the gas.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

As I have stated before this is all new to me and somehow during this mess I forgot about the bolts. However, I haven't started the build yet and am going to order new bolts tonight. What are ya'lls thoughts about using the stock head bolts and main bolts? I was planning on buying new oem headbolts and going with the ARP main studs, thoughts? I remember reading the the oem VQ35 head bolts are stronger than the standard ARP studs but I never saw anything about the main bolts vs. ARP studs.

I already purchased the Cometic gaskets so I will be using those. The link to JWT was very informative and I will keep that in mind for future VQ builds.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

If it were me, I would sell the cometic gasket and still go with HR gasket IMO.

With the head bolts, like i mentioned if you want OEM you need the VQ35HR (make very sure you get the HR and not the DE bolts)

the main bolts, i went with stock DE bolts, thats probably the strongest part of the VQ, so no need to get uber main bolts, this is my opinion and its what i went with, as usual others might have other opinions on that but im sure they agree the DE bolts are good enough.

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I thought you were saying the HR bolts had to be used with the HR gasket. I will order the HR head bolts tomorrow. Are the torque specs the same as the DE bolts? I am going to stick with oem for the main bolts. I am going to just go with the Cometic head gaskets for now. In the near future I am planning on having the heads ported and replacing my stock valves with the Brian Crower 2mm oversized stainless valves. I will most likely go with the HR gaskets then. Would it be better to go with the stronger aftermarket HR (design) gaskets than the stock ones?
Thanks,
Zack

mastercater7

iTrader: (2)

Well I spoke with DaveB and got all the bolts ordered. I went with the HR head bolts and the standard DE main bolts. Surprisingly the HR head bolts are much cheaper than the DE head bolts. Anyways, I picked up the assembly lube and went with some 10w30 and a bottle of Lucas stabilizer for the initial startup. Oh, and the weather man says it should be snowing around the time I will be assembling the engine and installing it back into the car. Great!
Zack

Conrad283

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a nice build. Any pics?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Damn i replied but my post didnt go through.

Anyway, the HR bolts have different torque specs which is part reason why they are better, they require more torque in both angle tightening and with the torque wrench. so make 100% sure you get the proper specs, also on that JWT file about the gasket, i think it says the specs, if not look for the specs for the HR 350z or w/e the HR came in, btw you'll notice you have HR bolts because there are TWO dots on the bolt's head instead of 1.

I really doubt anyone makes the same design as the HR gasket, but why would you need stronger? unless your going for over 680WHP, and even then with stronger bolts the HR gasket can probably hold even more power.