Ok, so I am set on doing this. I have been using water/meth injection for 3 years and its time I make a small change on how I am using the system. I will be putting a very small nozzle before the turbo (going to drill the filter in the center). I have been doing research and it is known to greatly improve the turbo's efficiency. Also since it is such a small shot, there wont be any problems with the MAF, it will evaporate as soon as it gets into the blades and also it wont be hurting the blades like alot of poeple have mentioned. I might be doing this, by the end of the week and see what the butt dyno tells me.

Anyone ever try it?

 

Sounds interesting. I'm currently running W/I, but post turbo. You're not scared about 'sand blasting' your turbo?

 

With such a small shot, I seriously doubt anything will happen.

 

Whats the theory behind it? cooling down the compressor blades?

 

Well, cooling down the pressurized air in the housing. The cooler the denser, the more efficient the turbos output would be. Its basically having a small turbo that can perform as if had the compressor map of a larger turbo.

 

show me some reading on this. I've never heard of it.

 

Here is where I was first introduced to it, i spoke to them and they have been doing it for a long time, gave me a few tips and stuff.
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...icle_info.html

Can i post other thread on here? if not please mod delete this.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...92#post6846492
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...safe-1629.html
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...ment-1455.html

People have been doing this for a very very long time, it just has to be done the right way, I think I am going to go ahead and do it! I'll use the smallest nozzle available which is .75GPH, at 150psi I just dont see how such a fine mist/cloud can damage a turbo. Either way my blades arent in 100% shape anyway lol.

 

Good find streetz! Very interesting.

One of my friends has a non-intercooled, carbureted, draw-through turbo setup on his '73 VW Beetle. After he drives it, the compressor housing is cold. We always believed that this cooling affect was occurring because the fuel was being introduced pre-turbo. I wonder if he will have any issues with the compressor wheel eroding from all that fuel hitting it. Hmm.

 

Thanx, Yeah during my search I found a few guys with same fuel setup, one guy had/has a turbo Trans-Am, and in 30 years the turbo is still good.

This has been done for a very very long time, just not alot of us know about it, I even read that a volvo from factory had pre-turbo water injection.

 

I read about this on the diytuning site. It's worth a shot, I'm wondering though if it is more beneficial to leave it the way it is now vs. preturbo since the water droplets also help cool the intake valves. It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison on what makes more hp.

 

no way to tell if this helps power at all. fail of a thread IMO... go dyno already

 

It is something that has been done since you and I were born, nothing new. This is a good thread bring up a topic that most likely has not been mentioned. Its about being innovative and trying new things, otherwise whats the point of even moddng our cars? New things to those that have not seen something is scary and one tends to reject it instantly.

 

I agree 100%, been there done that streetz

 

i was referring to not being able to tell what gains youll see, not that its not been done. the whole butt dyno thing (0; like a post turbo dyno and pre turbo dyno would be ideal

 

Who gives a **** if it increases power. I think this would be great just for the cooling factor alone. You know ****** hot it gets across most of the US in the summer?
Less effective in tropical air, sure, but for anyone in drier air during the summer this is a god send.

 

Post edited. Links already posted.

 

WTF!! yeah.... no one with a boosted max cares about power good one

 

lmk how one works versus the other Streetz...Im doing research to see if i look into it for the buick

 

Did he say they don't care about power? No, he quantified the statement by saying it was great for the cooling factor alone regardless of whether it gains power. Also, if the cooling really does make the turbo more efficient, it will either increase power or at the very least decrease stress on the turbo so it seems like a win/win.

Did he say that he was getting rid of his meth nozzle on the charged side or are you assuming that? It seems to me like he was just "adding" a small nozzle before the turbo in addition to his current setup. Maybe not... Either way you can have more than 1 nozzle, it's not a black and white choose one or the other situation. IMO if they both work well, do both! I'm sure your pump can handle a tiny amount of extra water/meth going in before the turbo.

 

Thanks. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean, plus if the air ends up cooler, then it's also just more protection for your engine. Even if there's zero power gain, I'd spend a few hundred on extra safety for the engine.

 

by saying who the ***** cares about power sure did sound like thats what he meant. but he clarified.

just adding the smaller nozzle pre-turbo would make more sense than having one or the other, which he actually wasnt clear on.

well, from what i have read, people do both, small nozzle pre with the bigger one after. and yes, its done with the purpose of making more power in mind, and making it safely, not solely for safety reasons, but they go hand in hand.(meth for octane boost, water for heat cooling air temps, combined should see a few deg lower exhaust temps, but nothing crazy)

not sure the cooler air will make a turbo more or less efficient, actually just by the principle of how a turbo works, it will make the overall turbo setup more efficient as far as making power,denser air, but not make the turbo more efficient itself, it will still need to spin all the same and compress air the same.

the denser cooler air should cause a pound or two increase just by the physics, so maybe a little more boost, but it wont be any crazy boost gain. most of the guys i have read have done this to avoid using front mounts, which they say works just as well or better. some dangers or puddling are there, some guys pre inject race fuel and also receive the cooling effects.

as far as safety, well, a low compression engine correctly tuned as he has it, safely, is plenty safe, even in Miami weather..thats why i was pointing out , that an increase in air temps, denser air, should provide more power, but without dynos wont be comfirmed really.

some people have misconceptions, like nitrous helping the air temps get cooler being a good thing, well, it causes cylinder temps to go up, which is more important. cooler denser intake air aint really making a car safer all intself, it can cause your car to run leaner if not corrected, more boost, causing higher cyl pressures.. so it aint like its that plain and simple.

pertaining to Streetz, hes got the tools to make it work as he can tune, so its just gong to be something making his setup better.helping make up for the other inefficiencies in his setup. IMO its cool, do it, just is nice to know what it did is all im saying, and his setup is not maxed in power by a long shot, so not really why hes doing it, im assuming its more to try to make up for the boost loss that he has right now, and gain some back while the stress on the turbo remains the same, rather than force it to spin more for more boost.

 

I think the cooler charge would increase the power but if he removes the water post turbo and just goes for injection preturbo there will be an exchange in benefits. Water droplets in the chamber will effect power and a higher cooling efficiency of the components that actually come in contact with the water droplets (in theory). Water droplets in the chamber also increase the compression so that's another plus especially on a lower compression motor. Water injection preturbo and post turbo would be something I would look into and try to get the best of both worlds.

 

Good explanation alvaro, for now I am going to stick with just post meth/water injection and try the pre later on. I found out my boost gauge was faulty so I dont really have that much of pressure drop, just like 4psi which is normal. It is a very beneficial thing to do, however it takes some preparation to be successful with it.

 

its actually pretty cool, after you brought it up i did some searching, i think its def worth doing. alot of old school buick guys have done it like you said, though not the norm, but its been done with a 5m nozzle as pre turbo, some guys even say the see the intake manifold frost up, when using both. pre and post...

 

Yeah man, its awesome. I am going to be using a .75gph nozzle when I do it. I will always keep the post injection, its the best! Actually recently I was driving around with no meth for like a week, then as soon as I turned on the meth/water you can feel boost in so much faster, I neverknew it helped spool up like that. so yeah, eventually i'll do the pre injection

 

Good to hear Streetz. Let's see some pictures of your setup. Do you have the tank located in the engine bay or the trunk?

 

Well cant really get a picture, the pump is hiding behind the bumper, and the tank is the windshield washer tank. so all you see is a line coming from behind the passenger light and into the intake.

 

Good deal! Are you spraying straight -20 windshield washer fluid, washer fluid with Heet, denatured alcohol, ethanol or what?

I'm still piecing my kit together, and trying to decide what I want to use.

 

Heet only, in other words pure methanol, with water. for every 4 bottles of Heet, I put 3 bottles of water. that keeps almost a perfect 50/50 mixture.

 

How much more boost/timing were you able to get out of it with the single injector you're using now?

 

Dont really know to be honest. I am running about 19degree's max, stock is 24. This is at 15psi. Might be able to turn up the timing a little more, but no need. Car feels good as is. Without the meth, id say like 16degree's max. I almost never run with no meth so cant really compare.