lobewiper

What's up with the use of nitrogen to inflate tires? Does this really make a difference or is this just advertizing hype? (Wouldn't it be great if nitro cured the shimmy?)

msoemax

Nitrogen is a great idea when you get a new set of tires. There are only a handful of places that offer nitrogen and will charge for a fill. It's a good idea if you can find a local place to do it. Nitrogen won't leak out as fast and it's better for the tires/rim. The tires will sound less pingy over bumps too. Costco does it and more and more tire places are doing it, eventually it will replace air once the equipment cost goes down.

Brushedpewter

I know that as you drive the the tire goes up in psi because of the air. Does nitrogen do that too?

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

Using nitrogen instead of compressed air has distinct advantages, which lead to immediate benefits for the vehicle owner.

1. It has more mass, so it migrates through the tire three to four times slower. The result: Tires hold their psi longer.

2. It runs about 20% cooler. Less heat results in less tire degradation.

3. It drastically reduces oxidation on the rim and inner-liner (nitrogen systems almost totally eliminate oxygen -- the cause of oxidation -- from the mix).

4. It is environmentally safe.

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

More explanation and pictures: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/Nitrogen.htm

Bones45

From what I have read about it, there are advantages, but nothing which would benefit a normal driver, normal car etc..


Unreal... special air for the tires. LOL

Brushedpewter

Any Disadvatages??

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

Cost & Availability

VQ30GTR

Have to love #4 -Standard dry air, which is mainly composed of three gases. They are nitrogen (about 78%), oxygen (about 21%), and argon (a bit less than 1%). For 5$ a tire, I will use my air compressor, and still have 78% Nitrogen!

Not a flame, just think that tire companies are scamming people. Are you going to come in for another $20 fillup every other month when your tires are low?

Bones45

We must keep this thread alive.. Its great.. I can see it now....

"I have 100% nitrogen in my tires...makes it somewhat lighter...took .25 off my times"

LMAO!!!

pkane3

I tried Helium instead. I was doing too many "Dukes of Hazzard/General Lee" take offs so I went back to Oxygen.

Bones45

I just got new tires last night. Turanza LSV

LOL.. they put nitrogen in them. I read the literature on it while I was waiting.

Pretty funny.. The only thing which did make me tweak an eyebrow was it said that said that regular air has water in it which contributes to a tire losing air all the time--or something like that.

What is comes down to.. is that ---go ahead--put it in there....but dont expect me to pay for it-- ( and you know that is going to happen eventually)

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

You probably would still pay for it. They're smart and put it under "shop supplies" line item on your bill or it's included in the mounting and balancing.

I don't see what's funny or eyebrow tweaking about "regular air" having water in it, I thought everyone knows this (Chem 101)?

From Innovative Balancing: "Oxygen in compressed air permeates through the wall of the tire, thus reducing the tire's inflation pressure. During it's journey through the tire wall, oxygen oxidizes the rubber compounds in the tire, causing under-inflation and deterioration of the rubber"

Bones45

thats great... but the question remains..

are you going to go out of your way to put nitrogen in your tires? and can you really tell the difference?

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

Hell no, it doesn't seem beneficial to me. Sure it does all the nice things like prevent corrosion and all that hoopla. Nitrogen would be more beneficial in "engaged driving" where tire pressure is important to keep the times low but IMO not all that in daily driving. I'll stick with my compressed air.

godlyone

But.. say you have nitrogen in your tires.. and it deflates a bit.. could you pump in oxyen? that would defeat the purpose.. no? lol

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The air you breath is already 78% Nitrogen. The only real advanatge is to keep out moisture which makes the tire pressure fluxuate more due to temperature. Nitrogen just keeps the pressure more consistant. But overall there is no advanatge to doing this on a street driven car. Besides that, you have to refill and drain the tire about 4 times to get out the existing oxygen and moisture.


Basically it's a gimmick to sell you.

ZeRo MaX

iTrader: (4)

i have nitrogen in my tires and one of my tires seem to be a lil flat... i might have to put some oxygen in it because i get to go home for the break from college... my car has been sitting in the lot for like a month straight with very little driving and it seems the cold weather made my tire pressure go down a lot so i think i HAVE to fill it up with oxygen... I was wondering if it would cause and problems having oygen and nitrogen at the same time... who knows... i guess i'll ask the place that put nitrogen in for me...

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

When I bought our QX4, it came with nitrogen in the tires (green valve stem caps). I have checked the psi several times and it always comes out the same. I bought the truck last spring and it still shows the same. I even had the tires rotated early in the fall and they didn't add any air.

I don't know about that other stuff. I also wouldn't pay $5/tire to have it done. On my cars I usually check tire pressure every couple of weeks at least, so it doesn't really seem to be a factor.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I don't know where you guys were getting this info on nitrogen leaking out slower. But if you look at your periodic table you'll see that Nitrogen has a lower atomic number than Oxygen. So if anything the nitrogen molecule is smaller than the Oxygen molecule and Nitrogen would leak out quicker.

http://www.dayah.com/periodic/

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, but atmosphere nitrogen is N2, I kinda recall from college, so wouldn't the nitrogen molecule be bigger than the oxygen atom?? Or am I just "passing gas" here?

Plus, combining the two makes N2O, which keeps NX and ZEX in business.....

NisMoN00B

iTrader: (2)

I don't believe that the studies based their findings between the two elements on their atomic number. Looking at the link, the studies most likely have based it on the elements' density and/or atomic mass and how it reacts to other elements in the rubber?

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

Did you "pass" college chemistry? Oxygen in the atmosphere only exists as molecular oxygen, O2.

Rather than wasting money on nitrogen, find a good source of DRY compressed air.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Single oxygen atoms do not exist naturally, at least on this planet.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You're likely to find more NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) than N2O. Mostly from tailpipe emissions.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Oh?:

"The Chemistry of Ozone

The O2 molecule is not the only elemental form of oxygen. In the presence of lightning or another source of a spark, O2 molecules dissociate to form oxygen atoms.
spark
O2(g) -----> 2 O(g) "

And again from Purdue edu,

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...10/group5.html

"The Chemistry of Nitrogen

The chemistry of nitrogen is dominated by the ease with which nitrogen atoms form double and triple bonds. A neutral nitrogen atom contains five valence electrons: 2s2 2p3. A nitrogen atom can therefore achieve an oc*** of valence electrons by sharing three pairs of electrons with another nitrogen atom.

Because the covalent radius of a nitrogen atom is relatively small (only 0.070 nm), nitrogen atoms come close enough together to form very strong bonds. The bond-dissociation enthalpy for the nitrogen-nitrogen triple bond is 946 kJ/mol, almost twice as large as that for an O=O double bond. "

which means in english that a molecule of nitrogen (N2) is almost twice as large as a molecule of O2, thus lending credence to the myth of pure nitrogen staying in tires much longer than our breathing air....





And the whole N2O thing was: a joke.........

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Ozone is O3

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

True - the quote was an excerpt from Purdue again,


http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche...10/group6.html

which includes this:

"The Chemistry of Oxygen

Oxygen is the most abundant element on this planet. The earth's crust is 46.6% oxygen by weight, the oceans are 86% oxygen by weight, and the atmosphere is 21% oxygen by volume. The name oxygen comes from the Greek stems oxys, "acid," and gennan, "to form or generate." Thus, oxygen literally means "acid former." This name was introduced by Lavoisier, who noticed that compounds rich in oxygen, such as SO2 and P4O10, dissolve in water to give acids.

The electron configuration of an oxygen atom --[He] 2s2 2p4 --suggests that neutral oxygen atoms can achieve an oc*** of valence electrons by sharing two pairs of electrons to form an O=O double bond, as shown in the figure below.

O=O

According to this Lewis structure, all of the electrons in the O2 molecule are paired. The compound should therefore be diamagnetic --it should be repelled by a magnetic field. Experimentally, O2 is found to be paramagnetic --it is attracted to a magnetic field. This can be explained by assuming that there are two unpaired electrons in the * antibonding molecular orbitals of the O2 molecule.
This photograph shows that the liquid O2 is so strongly attracted to a magnetic field that it will bridge the gap between the poles of a horseshoe magnet.

At temperatures below -183oC, O2 condenses to form a liquid with a characteristic light blue color that results from the absorption of light with a wavelength of 630 nm. This absorption is not seen in the gas phase and is relatively weak even in the liquid because it requires that three bodies -- two O2 molecules and a photon -- collide simultaneously, which is a very rare phenomenon, even in the liquid phase.



The Chemistry of Ozone

The O2 molecule is not the only elemental form of oxygen. In the presence of lightning or another source of a spark, O2 molecules dissociate to form oxygen atoms.
spark
O2(g) -----> 2 O(g)

These O atoms can react with O2 molecules to form ozone, O3,
O2(g) + O(g) -----> O3(g)

" etc.... which does state that single O atoms exist in nature, the original issue, I believe.

Enough fun with gases...

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

You can copy and paste indeed. I shoud have qualified my statement with a "ground level" statement since obviously there's the ozone layer. Also, at ground level, lightning strikes produce ozone, but it's short lived since ozone is so highly reactive. There used to be an old copier in my office that was nasty, producing O3 which would eat up all the rubber bands in the office... Anyhow, the bulk of the O3 at ground level is part of smog, produced organic fumes (VOCs) and NOx are exposed to sunlight.

Way OT so anyhow, just get a good source of DRY compressed air.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Actually, I agree with dry air in tires.


Did you notice my earlier flawed logic?:

Because the covalent radius of a nitrogen atom is relatively small (only 0.070 nm), nitrogen atoms come close enough together to form very strong bonds. The bond-dissociation enthalpy for the nitrogen-nitrogen triple bond is 946 kJ/mol, almost twice as large as that for an O=O double bond. "

which means in english that a molecule of nitrogen (N2) is almost twice as large as a molecule of O2, thus lending credence to the myth of pure nitrogen staying in tires much longer than our breathing air....

Notice I jumped from the energy of the N2 bond being almost twice as large as the O2 bond to the assumption that the N2 molecule was twice as large as the O2 molecule - bogus logic.

Too many antihistamines today.... Sorry about OT - I'm done here - and I never believed in the nitrogen-in-your-tires routine either.....

VQ30GTR

I was going to respond to this, but it is so much of a train wreck I think I will stay away.....Pay the shop to fill your tires, as well as ALL maintenance on your car.