Plans for ITBs
02-04-2010, 08:27 PM
#1
Plans for ITBs
My friend, who is going to school for mechanical engineering, helped me design a set of individual throttle bodies. Has anyone else attempted this? We are planning on doing it late spring early summer. How would I still have my TPS and IACV work with the stock throttle body gone? I need it to not throw a code cause this is my DD it needs to pass inspection its not a track toy. That's why the design has the throttle bodies going through a plastic plenum that we will make that will go to the MAF and air filter.
Here's the design:
Here's the design:
02-05-2010, 01:03 AM
#4
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yeah, seems more logical to do two plenums with 3 ITBs each, have them criss-cross and bolt right onto the heads, instead of retaining the factory VQ30 LIM.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
02-05-2010, 04:49 PM
#6
yeah, seems more logical to do two plenums with 3 ITBs each, have them criss-cross and bolt right onto the heads, instead of retaining the factory VQ30 LIM.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
Last edited by BlueBlackMax; 02-05-2010 at 04:54 PM.
02-05-2010, 05:00 PM
#7
Also, the 00vi mod gives you an extra 20-25 hp but its only over a very small rpm band in the higher revs. With ITBs, even if the runner length calculations werent optimal, id rather have an extra 10-14 horsepower throughout the whole rev range than having it pull harder for the last 1000 rpms
02-05-2010, 06:14 PM
#8
yeah, seems more logical to do two plenums with 3 ITBs each, have them criss-cross and bolt right onto the heads, instead of retaining the factory VQ30 LIM.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
however, it seems like an awfully complicated project for a daily driver. mucho $$$ to design, build, and then adjust.
I mean, that's a nice sketch, but no offense, it's just six tubes in a row. I'd question how much your friend actually knows before you shell out money for this thing. At the very least, I'd expect a solidworks model with precise dimensions and some more complicated analysis on the proper length, angles, and volume.
Otherwise, it seems much simpler to just go with that Jenvey setup in the first reply, or just get an 00VI and call it a day.
TPS probably wouldn't be terrible. There's only one throttle cable, so just put the TPS on wherever the throttle cable goes. There needs to be a linkage mechanism, and there will be a place to mount it somewhere there.
Do you have a piggyback or a VAFC or something like that? I would think that the ECU would need to be remapped for the different flow. How would you mount the injectors?
Don't take it the wrong way, but this seems more like a napkin sketch of "Hey dude wouldn't this be AWESOME?!" during lunch than it seems like a well designed and thought-out plan to design and construct a reliable, efficient, and high-performing intake manifold. I'd advise against spending money pursuing this until you've done significantly more research on ITBs and intake manifold design. The diameters and the lengths of the pipes have to be tuned for the optimal performance at the correct RPMs, a reliable linkage has to be designed - there's a lot more to it than just bolting six pipes onto the VQ30 LIM and putting a small TB and velocity stack on each of them.
Because, let's face it, unless your friend is one hell of a good Mech E, with plenty of money and time to work on this, you'll probably find a cheaper and better-performing solution by just getting an 00VI.
You bring up some good points. Let me start by saying for our cars, 6 pipes into one collector would be better. Two main reasons... we're FWD, and the space just isnt there for the front collector. And 2, you could use an existing manifold collector as a starting point for design (i.e. from a USIM or something).
The TPS would have to be positioned onto one end of the throttle spindle, probably the drivers side. This wouldnt be hard, really, because one could either machine the housing and get it welded/bolted onto the new intake runners, or use an existing A32/A33 TPS housing and modify it.
Theoretically, a MAF could still be used. It would essentially work the same way, keeping it between the filter and manifold collector. However using a setup that basically makes a USIM into 6 ports with TBs practically defeats the purpose of ITBs all together. Something a la Kinetix manifold for the 3.5 is more along the lines of what I would get ideas from.
Also, you will need to remember your vacuum lines, you will want a few inches of metal between the LIM and the back of the throttle plates to tap in some lines for whatever is necessary, such as the FPR, EVAP, etc.
That being said, its doable. If you have access to the SW and other software needed to analyze and develop these for free, then I would say it could be done for under $800. Check around for usable parts, like once you determine the size of your velocity stacks, instead of designing and machining your own, see if you cant find a comparable set that would work made for something else.
02-05-2010, 06:17 PM
#9
Also, the 00vi mod gives you an extra 20-25 hp but its only over a very small rpm band in the higher revs. With ITBs, even if the runner length calculations werent optimal, id rather have an extra 10-14 horsepower throughout the whole rev range than having it pull harder for the last 1000 rpms
First was I,Y,E with a stock manifold VQ30DE engine.
2nd was I,Y,E with the same VQ30DE engine with the 2000 VI.
3rd was with I,H,E and tuning with a VQ30DEK swap. Among other things
The DEK swap is a nice modification once the car is running good and yet I still want ITBs !!!
02-06-2010, 08:03 PM
#10
no offense to your friend, but theres a lot more to designing a proper intake manifold that just a few equations. There are a TON of articles I would suggest he read regarding intake manifold dynamics and flow properties. That very unrefined sketch at least shows the theory he is planning and you would be better off looking into other designs. Look into aftermarket manifolds for other cars, the z, and anything else you can find. In my experience, the VQ35 will be better off running 6 velocity stacks at angles inside a common plenum (i know you have a 3.0, but its the same idea) You are looking at a plenum volume of 6+L if you want to do it right, which means 6" round tube or something like a 4" diameter oval/recatanguler section. This is based on ACTUAL research into manifold dynamics, so take it FWIW. JW, how many years of mech schooling does your friend have? That will decide whether or not he is going to spend the time to properly design the manifold
02-13-2010, 09:05 PM
#11
Compared to the stock 4th gen manifold? The 2K VI gave my car something like 55 WHP from 6000 rpm to 6600 rpm and a bit more power everywhere.
First was I,Y,E with a stock manifold VQ30DE engine.
2nd was I,Y,E with the same VQ30DE engine with the 2000 VI.
3rd was with I,H,E and tuning with a VQ30DEK swap. Among other things
The DEK swap is a nice modification once the car is running good and yet I still want ITBs !!!
First was I,Y,E with a stock manifold VQ30DE engine.
2nd was I,Y,E with the same VQ30DE engine with the 2000 VI.
3rd was with I,H,E and tuning with a VQ30DEK swap. Among other things
The DEK swap is a nice modification once the car is running good and yet I still want ITBs !!!
02-14-2010, 10:31 AM
#12
I have a plan for ITBs but it will be a long time down the road, probally years at this rate. Until then I'm going to use the 00 VI and play around with that for now.
02-16-2010, 07:12 PM
#15
If there was an ITB setup on any Maxima someone would of posted a vid or at least pics on this forum. That is not something that slips easily under the radar.
I agree they are a pain to make, tune, and expensive. However I've yet to MEET someone that has them on their car and say they are not worth it. For an all out N/A setup they are the finishing touch. Just like big cams if the motor isn't built to support the higher revs or if the engine management is crap (emange ultimate will not work, its to slow) they will not make good gains. That is information I've gotten from two different ITB makers in the US that I've spoke to.
02-26-2010, 02:28 PM
#16
^^agreed if you have the money/time/experience to accomplish ITBs then they would be well worth it.. Now how much a 3.0 would gain over the VI would be an interesting thread.. but dont get me wrong im not talking about peak numbers either.. area under the curve is where its at.. make no mistake tho, ITBs are sexy.. but you have to know more than just simple physics calculations to design them right and it better not look like the sketch that was drawn above.. No point intended and im not ******* your friend.. Just facts.. Take it from another mechanical engineer major.. oh and nice pic joe haha
02-26-2010, 03:18 PM
#17
Not everyone with a wild setup is an active member of this board, or even a member at all. This I know for a fact. Some lurk, read what they need, buy the appropriate items, and feel perfectly content with their work without needing to show off. So it's possible..
02-26-2010, 08:48 PM
#18
Got solid proof or just speculation? Dyno runs? 1/4 mile time slips? Or are you stating your opinion?
If there was an ITB setup on any Maxima someone would of posted a vid or at least pics on this forum. That is not something that slips easily under the radar.
I agree they are a pain to make, tune, and expensive. However I've yet to MEET someone that has them on their car and say they are not worth it. For an all out N/A setup they are the finishing touch. Just like big cams if the motor isn't built to support the higher revs or if the engine management is crap (emange ultimate will not work, its to slow) they will not make good gains. That is information I've gotten from two different ITB makers in the US that I've spoke to.
If there was an ITB setup on any Maxima someone would of posted a vid or at least pics on this forum. That is not something that slips easily under the radar.
I agree they are a pain to make, tune, and expensive. However I've yet to MEET someone that has them on their car and say they are not worth it. For an all out N/A setup they are the finishing touch. Just like big cams if the motor isn't built to support the higher revs or if the engine management is crap (emange ultimate will not work, its to slow) they will not make good gains. That is information I've gotten from two different ITB makers in the US that I've spoke to.
before you go running the car down the street , my guy is from the UK and we are a Jenvey Dealer.
We acutally do the flow testing here and send them back to the UK to have them Cast.
Jenvey ITBs can be found on Reverie of the UK race cars and euro cup, Yes these cars are ***** to the walls
built and back by big companys but its been proven they work , they arent not hard to tune but you must balance them.
they are not a pain in the **** as we already have a setup for the VQs
We have a car thats in the All Motor that will have our Jenvey ITB's on a 3.5
If you want to see ITBs on a VQ35
http://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds/...with-itbs.html
We sold our ITB sets to HAL @ IP , IvoryGT has a N/A built motor and theres
a vid revving pass 8grand.
You guys will see some proof and #s finally after all these years on the car locally here and im sure he will post it
soon
I may do mines after im done with my setup F/I on ITBs this year as my motor is being finshed up.
Im also tired of hearing other fourms saying * ITBS on boost dont work*
I like to throw out Audi , RBs and Gti-r motors that came stock ITBs on boost.
for the OP , your getting yourself involed into something big, and I hope you have
enough funds for it / testing / tune /. flow bench / casting/ materal
Im sure you want to be unique and build your own.
but we have these setups at the shop already.
I guess when the other guy has his im sure people may start jumping on how ITBs work
Last edited by NiZMo1o1; 02-26-2010 at 08:55 PM.
02-27-2010, 12:40 AM
#19
However one would think someone took a picture or has some other way to prove it? Not to mention every gear head I've met never hesitates to show me the work they have done to their particular choice of car. The only people who keep a tight lip are the full on professional race car teams, race builders, etc.
But what irks me is that when someone says flat out it’s not worth it I like to see some evidence to support their claim. Good example the OP was talking about the VIs for the VQ30s only gaining 20 WHP over the OEM 4th gen manifold and I showed dynojet evidence of over 50 WHP gain past 6K RPM. I've got so many before and after Dynojet pulls for various Maxima performance parts it's almost asinine. This is off topic but we've both been on this forum for a long time and you know how **** retentive I can be. I work in optics/laser R&D and for all the published papers that are submitted for peer review. All data has to be spot on and with an explanation as to how and why the technology works, zero speculations. I'm not here to show off but to share my data with other members and to help when I can.
I agree they are a pain to make, tune, and expensive.
My apologies, I will reiterate and say I made a blanket statement about ITBs here. I was referring to the average person who works on their car. Getting a lower intake manifold designed/cast, wiring up/tuning a proper parallel management system, and balancing the ITBs is not something everyone can do. Yes they are professionals to goto and I'm almost at that point as these tuning issues are beyond me. Will I post before and after dyno pulls and maybe some video? You better believe it.
Will this happen anytime soon? Probally not. 
I've even considered building up a VQ35 and buying the Jenvey ITB kit so it will bolt right on to those better flowing heads.
Last edited by 98SEBlackMax; 02-27-2010 at 12:54 AM.
02-27-2010, 06:36 AM
#20
^^ yes to the average person that knows what they are doing..
we do alot of group buy to the s2k owners and evo guys.
Now we had one guy in Cali that we sent a ITB setup , Full Jenvey package with 60mm Race tapper Air Horns AND complete with Filters( you nornally dont even get that with the other competition extrudebody , OBX (which is a copy of our own stuff ) TWM )
Now we can offer a full package for the pricing to compete with other companys.
We usually normally dont assemble it and send it out but we did it anyways so it would be idoit proof,
our kits come with linkeage , tps , air hours , manifold , vacuum bar , vaccum plate , air filter every bolts and nuts to come with it , fuel rail the whole 9 EXPECT injectors which we also now offer
Now example , s2k install this on his ride and of corase WITHOUT reading any info or instructions , starts the car up and its limping..
Well maybe if he took the time and balance each air horn then start the car , he would have a smooth idle.
sometimes we included the balancer with the kits. that peice alone isnt cheap but were trying to source a company that can get it to us wholesale.
Its minor things like that and people are quick to judge (it doesnt work , or it cant be done , its expensive ( YET these guys with the S2k Buy ARC and SPOON products and CF wings that are way over $500 bucks )
They will also say its hard to tune you need a ECU, when in Fact you can run ITBS even on a STOCK ECU , after you balance them its just like running a 70MM or 90MM single TB.
The issues is in this modern age no one purchase things if they dont see it with their own eyes , they go the easiet of the route or go boost ( I.E> S/C T/C N2O)
Even when I met my guy I work with 14 years ago and I had a boosted KA24DE Altima.
in 1999 I was making 383whp on a JWT computer.
I meet this English Fella and hes talking about Emeraldm3d Standalones and Jenvey ITBs
I was 21 Y/O age and I looked at this fool and thinking in my head WTF are ITBs and standalone.. when the time he threw these insane prices, I told him pretty much to lay off the crack.
Well not knowing Who he was at the time and where he came from , flash foward almost 11 years and im working with him, the knowledge and race teams hes worked for over in the UK is crazy. he doesnt advertise cause hes quite been there and done that.
He has a 1962 buggie , turbo motor that was a street driven 9 second car with ITB Fuel INjected car... Now I use to laugh at this things cause they made like 60-80whp or something. this bug dyno at 450whp on a body lighter than a Civic.
in the times ive working on him ive educated myself enough about ITBs and how F/I is worked , calucations on injectors x flow and all that good stuff nature.
Ive pretty much sharpen my skills even tho I was an ASE cert for Nissan at one time in my life. Being a fabrcation shop and performance shop you see a differnt side and the price that may see expensive for a ITB kit , really it you break it down its acutally work it.
the casting over seas, the shipping cost and customs thru the UK to get here.
We even did a b18 teggy on ITBs , took us about 3 hours to do , balance it and the car sounded almost like a F1 car.. I mean it revved so happily to 7grand WITH the Stock ECU and UNTUNED SAFC.
The heads on the VQ35 are very decent , the 3.5 manifold dont flow as well , some will agree those z33s clamshells work good, I disagree because not every car is equal or has the same mods.
If it was a STOCK car with 3.5 Manifold Dyno
ClamShell Dyno
00VI dyno
ITBs Dyno
Cosworth Dyno
Than we can make a real decesion and say What acutally makes power , and power from all the way , not just power in the upper end.
In a way I am basis because im working with the company Jenvey BUT
there are so much out there before you start jumping into mods.
to the OP it is a lot of FKING work to do what your trying to do.
From the sketechs they look like extrudebodies ITBS.
We acutally did a set like that and it didnt work so we scrap the project,
the way the air horns are , btw the time you get the air down in the manifold
the velocity of the air will lift the fuel upwards, then at high RPMs your going to fall FLAT
remember your injectors are spraying , this is also to think about , type of injectors, high impendence , are they shower head flowing ? direct spray ?
where do they sit ? how with airflow comming in effect the spray patern.
Jenvey is a hugh company in the UK and R&D on their stuff start off at $50Grand.
Reverie.ltd. UK makes the CF horns and stuff for Jenvey as well.
what happens in the UK never rarely you will hear in the States.
This is where we come in and try to get Jenveys stuff in the states , alot of these guys purchase our kits for show cars , we have a few project cars that are fully built that soon will have our stuff on it for dyno and track #s and times.
I hope then people will see this as a more options for N/A or F/I build.
Lastely its your money and how you want to spend it. I cant tell you to do a t88 turbo
with ITBS and HALTEC , in the end you need to figure out what you REALLY want to do and how deep is your pockets to fund things like this.
we do alot of group buy to the s2k owners and evo guys.
Now we had one guy in Cali that we sent a ITB setup , Full Jenvey package with 60mm Race tapper Air Horns AND complete with Filters( you nornally dont even get that with the other competition extrudebody , OBX (which is a copy of our own stuff ) TWM )
Now we can offer a full package for the pricing to compete with other companys.
We usually normally dont assemble it and send it out but we did it anyways so it would be idoit proof,
our kits come with linkeage , tps , air hours , manifold , vacuum bar , vaccum plate , air filter every bolts and nuts to come with it , fuel rail the whole 9 EXPECT injectors which we also now offer
Now example , s2k install this on his ride and of corase WITHOUT reading any info or instructions , starts the car up and its limping..
Well maybe if he took the time and balance each air horn then start the car , he would have a smooth idle.
sometimes we included the balancer with the kits. that peice alone isnt cheap but were trying to source a company that can get it to us wholesale.
Its minor things like that and people are quick to judge (it doesnt work , or it cant be done , its expensive ( YET these guys with the S2k Buy ARC and SPOON products and CF wings that are way over $500 bucks )
They will also say its hard to tune you need a ECU, when in Fact you can run ITBS even on a STOCK ECU , after you balance them its just like running a 70MM or 90MM single TB.
The issues is in this modern age no one purchase things if they dont see it with their own eyes , they go the easiet of the route or go boost ( I.E> S/C T/C N2O)
Even when I met my guy I work with 14 years ago and I had a boosted KA24DE Altima.
in 1999 I was making 383whp on a JWT computer.
I meet this English Fella and hes talking about Emeraldm3d Standalones and Jenvey ITBs
I was 21 Y/O age and I looked at this fool and thinking in my head WTF are ITBs and standalone.. when the time he threw these insane prices, I told him pretty much to lay off the crack.
Well not knowing Who he was at the time and where he came from , flash foward almost 11 years and im working with him, the knowledge and race teams hes worked for over in the UK is crazy. he doesnt advertise cause hes quite been there and done that.
He has a 1962 buggie , turbo motor that was a street driven 9 second car with ITB Fuel INjected car... Now I use to laugh at this things cause they made like 60-80whp or something. this bug dyno at 450whp on a body lighter than a Civic.
in the times ive working on him ive educated myself enough about ITBs and how F/I is worked , calucations on injectors x flow and all that good stuff nature.
Ive pretty much sharpen my skills even tho I was an ASE cert for Nissan at one time in my life. Being a fabrcation shop and performance shop you see a differnt side and the price that may see expensive for a ITB kit , really it you break it down its acutally work it.
the casting over seas, the shipping cost and customs thru the UK to get here.
We even did a b18 teggy on ITBs , took us about 3 hours to do , balance it and the car sounded almost like a F1 car.. I mean it revved so happily to 7grand WITH the Stock ECU and UNTUNED SAFC.
The heads on the VQ35 are very decent , the 3.5 manifold dont flow as well , some will agree those z33s clamshells work good, I disagree because not every car is equal or has the same mods.
If it was a STOCK car with 3.5 Manifold Dyno
ClamShell Dyno
00VI dyno
ITBs Dyno
Cosworth Dyno
Than we can make a real decesion and say What acutally makes power , and power from all the way , not just power in the upper end.
In a way I am basis because im working with the company Jenvey BUT
there are so much out there before you start jumping into mods.
to the OP it is a lot of FKING work to do what your trying to do.
From the sketechs they look like extrudebodies ITBS.
We acutally did a set like that and it didnt work so we scrap the project,
the way the air horns are , btw the time you get the air down in the manifold
the velocity of the air will lift the fuel upwards, then at high RPMs your going to fall FLAT
remember your injectors are spraying , this is also to think about , type of injectors, high impendence , are they shower head flowing ? direct spray ?
where do they sit ? how with airflow comming in effect the spray patern.
Jenvey is a hugh company in the UK and R&D on their stuff start off at $50Grand.
Reverie.ltd. UK makes the CF horns and stuff for Jenvey as well.
what happens in the UK never rarely you will hear in the States.
This is where we come in and try to get Jenveys stuff in the states , alot of these guys purchase our kits for show cars , we have a few project cars that are fully built that soon will have our stuff on it for dyno and track #s and times.
I hope then people will see this as a more options for N/A or F/I build.
Lastely its your money and how you want to spend it. I cant tell you to do a t88 turbo
with ITBS and HALTEC , in the end you need to figure out what you REALLY want to do and how deep is your pockets to fund things like this.
02-27-2010, 10:50 AM
#21
A pre-made bolt on kit for the Maximas would be nice, especially if it can run on the existing tuning stuff we have. That would make these much more accessible to guys on this forum. Also has to be compliant with emissons and pass inspection every year. Most people on this forum don't drive Maxima track cars with standalone engine management.
Now I talked to the guys at Hayward & TWM about an ITB setup 2~3 years ago. Fabrication and building stuff was not an issue. The big problems was I could not use a stock throttle position sensor, no cruise control, and issues with emissions. Also I would rather convert to MAP and not use a common plenum(s) for hood clearence reasons. I think great well the EU can do all this and then some, both companies said it wouldn't work well.
The answer I got was the the EU isn't quick enough to compensate and doesn't have the resoultion needed to fine tune for a daily driven car. But your saying you can make them work with stock ECUs? 
Nowadays with all the performance parts for 350Zs trickling down to us; There are ITB kits available along with much better & affordable stuff to tune VQ35s, so this seems more reasonable now. I feel this is like 2004 when Krismax made the 2000 VI work on his '96. People were doubting him and it worked the first time we fired it up.
Now I talked to the guys at Hayward & TWM about an ITB setup 2~3 years ago. Fabrication and building stuff was not an issue. The big problems was I could not use a stock throttle position sensor, no cruise control, and issues with emissions. Also I would rather convert to MAP and not use a common plenum(s) for hood clearence reasons. I think great well the EU can do all this and then some, both companies said it wouldn't work well.
The answer I got was the the EU isn't quick enough to compensate and doesn't have the resoultion needed to fine tune for a daily driven car. But your saying you can make them work with stock ECUs? Nowadays with all the performance parts for 350Zs trickling down to us; There are ITB kits available along with much better & affordable stuff to tune VQ35s, so this seems more reasonable now. I feel this is like 2004 when Krismax made the 2000 VI work on his '96. People were doubting him and it worked the first time we fired it up.
02-27-2010, 01:23 PM
#22
^^ Hehe you spoke to Hayward ? Our company and Hayward are Jenvey dealers, Hayward has kind of gone away from the import scene due to the demand as Ive been told.
My boss and him are on the phone regular , Im sure there would be any interest in ITBs IF I didnt come along and work at the shop. Im bringing more maxima VQs and RWD VQs to the shop daily. Now that my boss see theres a demand its just a matter of putting our own time into R&D and making things work.
Not everyone has money to throw around ( I understand) which is why we do alot of testing on my car , my own money , and dyno time.
sometimes its a failed, sometimes its a sucess.
We have a few things going as for All Motor and F/I parts. Right now were a 2 man shop and were not a hugh shop like Injected Peformance but we get our dues from other shops.
My boss and him are on the phone regular , Im sure there would be any interest in ITBs IF I didnt come along and work at the shop. Im bringing more maxima VQs and RWD VQs to the shop daily. Now that my boss see theres a demand its just a matter of putting our own time into R&D and making things work.
Not everyone has money to throw around ( I understand) which is why we do alot of testing on my car , my own money , and dyno time.
sometimes its a failed, sometimes its a sucess.
We have a few things going as for All Motor and F/I parts. Right now were a 2 man shop and were not a hugh shop like Injected Peformance but we get our dues from other shops.
03-07-2010, 06:42 PM
#25
04-20-2010, 09:36 PM
#27
http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/StoreFront
will help you in a quest for ITB status, I'm an avid fabricator as from the few photos of the SMIM I've built for other customers, as well my shop.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1114970...7622074278118/
I had helped a local VW shop fab up a blower kit for a beetle, using a 20V turbo head. Had to chop up the 20V intake manifold which is 12" across and adapt to a 8" openning on an old school neuspeed roots style charger, but the way the old 8V kit was run with intake runners going from front to back got me thinking. I sourced down BMW I6 ITB, and started to build a runner system similar to a 4th gen IM setup, I had to space my hood for clearances, but I think it may be possible to get this thing running, I am running AEM EMS I universal w/ GM 2 bar map sensor previously and have started to mock up an ITB setup using 550cc side feed nismo injectors (purchased used from a customer upgrading RB25DET to 880cc Sard)on a 4th gen lower IM on my DEK(port matched) I haven't documented much as this is more of an experiment, but I did stumble upon the above linked website, surprising items for V6 configurations are available. I've already purchased the SR20 head plate and TBs for my B13 sentra which currently is in the rebuild process, after theives stole my car and blew the motor to bits, but want to go bigger now.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0117_large.jpg
BlueBlackMax, you are on the right track, I'll post pics of the planned ITB setup once I clean up the mock stages.
will help you in a quest for ITB status, I'm an avid fabricator as from the few photos of the SMIM I've built for other customers, as well my shop.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1114970...7622074278118/
I had helped a local VW shop fab up a blower kit for a beetle, using a 20V turbo head. Had to chop up the 20V intake manifold which is 12" across and adapt to a 8" openning on an old school neuspeed roots style charger, but the way the old 8V kit was run with intake runners going from front to back got me thinking. I sourced down BMW I6 ITB, and started to build a runner system similar to a 4th gen IM setup, I had to space my hood for clearances, but I think it may be possible to get this thing running, I am running AEM EMS I universal w/ GM 2 bar map sensor previously and have started to mock up an ITB setup using 550cc side feed nismo injectors (purchased used from a customer upgrading RB25DET to 880cc Sard)on a 4th gen lower IM on my DEK(port matched) I haven't documented much as this is more of an experiment, but I did stumble upon the above linked website, surprising items for V6 configurations are available. I've already purchased the SR20 head plate and TBs for my B13 sentra which currently is in the rebuild process, after theives stole my car and blew the motor to bits, but want to go bigger now.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0117_large.jpg
BlueBlackMax, you are on the right track, I'll post pics of the planned ITB setup once I clean up the mock stages.
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