New problem after fixing an old problem
10-21-2009, 10:29 PM
#1
New problem after fixing an old problem
Well today I finished doing the front exhaust manifold gastet and studs. At first I thought it was the rear but later decided it was from the font. I did the front and now it's quiet there. But now it turns out that the rear is also leaking since it is clear as day where the exhaust leak noise is coming from now.
But here is my main problem. As I was trying to remove the exhaust manifold, I was also moving the compressor to get it out of the way. On that process, I started to hear a large freon leak somewhere around the top of the compressor. I felt the gas coming from the ends of the hoses but I'm not sure which hose it is leaking from.
So now I have no AC and the good thing for now is that summer is over. But the system uses R-12 so I can't (easily) get the freon. Now I have two options after fixing the leak.
1. Refill it with R-12, which I can't do myself due to restrictions on it so it will be kinda expensive.
2. Convert it to R-134a (URL to TSB concerning about it). More expensive but then I can refill it myself whenever I need to.
Which one will be the better choice?
But here is my main problem. As I was trying to remove the exhaust manifold, I was also moving the compressor to get it out of the way. On that process, I started to hear a large freon leak somewhere around the top of the compressor. I felt the gas coming from the ends of the hoses but I'm not sure which hose it is leaking from.
So now I have no AC and the good thing for now is that summer is over. But the system uses R-12 so I can't (easily) get the freon. Now I have two options after fixing the leak.
1. Refill it with R-12, which I can't do myself due to restrictions on it so it will be kinda expensive.
2. Convert it to R-134a (URL to TSB concerning about it). More expensive but then I can refill it myself whenever I need to.
Which one will be the better choice?
Last edited by jbbons25; 10-21-2009 at 10:39 PM.
10-22-2009, 06:25 AM
#2
Well today I finished doing the front exhaust manifold gastet and studs. At first I thought it was the rear but later decided it was from the font. I did the front and now it's quiet there. But now it turns out that the rear is also leaking since it is clear as day where the exhaust leak noise is coming from now.
But here is my main problem. As I was trying to remove the exhaust manifold, I was also moving the compressor to get it out of the way. On that process, I started to hear a large freon leak somewhere around the top of the compressor. I felt the gas coming from the ends of the hoses but I'm not sure which hose it is leaking from.
So now I have no AC and the good thing for now is that summer is over. But the system uses R-12 so I can't (easily) get the freon. Now I have two options after fixing the leak.
1. Refill it with R-12, which I can't do myself due to restrictions on it so it will be kinda expensive.
2. Convert it to R-134a (URL to TSB concerning about it). More expensive but then I can refill it myself whenever I need to.
Which one will be the better choice?
But here is my main problem. As I was trying to remove the exhaust manifold, I was also moving the compressor to get it out of the way. On that process, I started to hear a large freon leak somewhere around the top of the compressor. I felt the gas coming from the ends of the hoses but I'm not sure which hose it is leaking from.
So now I have no AC and the good thing for now is that summer is over. But the system uses R-12 so I can't (easily) get the freon. Now I have two options after fixing the leak.
1. Refill it with R-12, which I can't do myself due to restrictions on it so it will be kinda expensive.
2. Convert it to R-134a (URL to TSB concerning about it). More expensive but then I can refill it myself whenever I need to.
Which one will be the better choice?
otherwise it's not a big deal to convert it to R134a but you will probably need to recharge it every couple of years
10-22-2009, 07:04 PM
#3
Ok maybe I should stick to R-12. Looking around the forum, R-12 seems to cool better. Hopefully I won't have a hard time getting it charged.
A new question. I just got an O2 sensor. Would it be worth it if I install it even though I have the rear exhaust manifold leak or should I wait to install it after I fix the leak?
A new question. I just got an O2 sensor. Would it be worth it if I install it even though I have the rear exhaust manifold leak or should I wait to install it after I fix the leak?
10-23-2009, 12:27 PM
#5
Ok maybe I should stick to R-12. Looking around the forum, R-12 seems to cool better. Hopefully I won't have a hard time getting it charged.
A new question. I just got an O2 sensor. Would it be worth it if I install it even though I have the rear exhaust manifold leak or should I wait to install it after I fix the leak?
A new question. I just got an O2 sensor. Would it be worth it if I install it even though I have the rear exhaust manifold leak or should I wait to install it after I fix the leak?
the R12 is typically expensive to get recharged since it requires certification and the R12 is about $20 a lb in bulk
10-23-2009, 06:57 PM
#6
Well I got all the parts except for the manifold gasket which I will get tomorrow to fix that rear manifold exhaust leak and I will install the O2 sensor altogether.
Also, looking at the FSMs it appears that the the hose that is between the evaporator and compressor can leak too without ever knowing. I don't know if I should save for that too since my car is 11/88. The The AC wouldn't cool enough when I started driving it 4 years ago (air wouldn't be cold at fan speed 3 or 4) and I recharged it a year ago. I have noticed during summer that it wasn't cooling as well as when it was recharged.
http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB90-084.pdf
Also, looking at the FSMs it appears that the the hose that is between the evaporator and compressor can leak too without ever knowing. I don't know if I should save for that too since my car is 11/88. The The AC wouldn't cool enough when I started driving it 4 years ago (air wouldn't be cold at fan speed 3 or 4) and I recharged it a year ago. I have noticed during summer that it wasn't cooling as well as when it was recharged.
http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB90-084.pdf
Last edited by jbbons25; 10-23-2009 at 06:59 PM.
10-23-2009, 07:21 PM
#7
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,159
Make sure to check the rear exhaust manifold flanges with a straight edge to check for distortion. My middle flange was raised (on both) 2mm or more from the outside ones. If I installed it as is with a new gasket, it likely would have started leaking again. So what I mean by this is, you don't want to waste all the effort your doing (and gaskets), as it's not too costly to get the flanges decked at a machine shop if they are off. I used a 0.005" Feeler Gauge and a straight edge to check it. Surfaces have to be completely clean though to inspect it - I used a 3M Roloc Scotchbrite disc and laquer thinner, all you really need is a wire brush and laquer thinner though if you don't have the die grinder handy.
Edit: You may want to spray dishwasher soapy water onto the front flange too, to make sure it too isn't leaking after you did the work on it. Just get someone to push the gas while you spray the whole thing around the edges to check for leakage.
Edit: You may want to spray dishwasher soapy water onto the front flange too, to make sure it too isn't leaking after you did the work on it. Just get someone to push the gas while you spray the whole thing around the edges to check for leakage.
Last edited by 1993-VG30E-GXE; 10-23-2009 at 07:25 PM.
10-24-2009, 08:42 PM
#8
Man, was doing the rear manifold a big PITA. Not only was the gasket messed up, there was a crack on the manifold itself which exhaust was coming out as well. My dad had exhaust wrap installed on the rear manifold so it was easy to notice that. The exhaust shop next door to my dad's garage welded the crack up and installed it. No more exhaust leak from there now since it quiet over there now. And I installed the O2 sensor on it as well.
Well...... new problem. Seems that the front exhaust manifold may have a crack on it too because noticable noise is coming from there now!
It's weird since I didn't hear that at all when I did the changed the studs and the gasket on the front couple of days ago.
But I have to take out the original covers on that manifold to confirm it. I might as well save up to order a brand new manifold from Courtesy.
Well...... new problem. Seems that the front exhaust manifold may have a crack on it too because noticable noise is coming from there now!
It's weird since I didn't hear that at all when I did the changed the studs and the gasket on the front couple of days ago.But I have to take out the original covers on that manifold to confirm it. I might as well save up to order a brand new manifold from Courtesy.
10-28-2009, 10:01 AM
#9
The day I did the rear exhaust manifold and the O2 sensor I filled up the tank to see my new mileage. The needle is near empty and it looks like I'm getting around 17 MPG city and highway. Better than the 12-13 that I had before, but still not good enough for me. Other than the exhaust manifold leak, what would be other things I should check to increase mileage?
- A week ago I had to fix my code 12 MAF problem by cleaning the contacts, but not that well. I'm going to get DeoxIt after class after reading a certain post around here.
- Changed the fuel filter last month and the PCV valve on July.
- Did a Seafoam treatment in August.
- Cleaned the IACV on July.
- Air filter on January but still look okay. It's a Fram filter though. Should I use OEM next time?
- Changed the spark plug wires around December last year
- Had NGK V-power installed November last year
10-28-2009, 12:56 PM
#10
check driving habits and tire pressures.
17mpg mixed driving is about average, but 10000% depends on your driving style and the conditions.
in my car (lots of stop & go, then 90mph on the highway every day), I see about 12mpg in town and 30mpg on the highway. I would get about 4-5mpg on the road course then I tracked the car.
If you want to check the health of the car, get it out on the highway and run a full tank just cruising on the highway. you should see about 27mpg cruising at 65-75mph.
17mpg mixed driving is about average, but 10000% depends on your driving style and the conditions.
in my car (lots of stop & go, then 90mph on the highway every day), I see about 12mpg in town and 30mpg on the highway. I would get about 4-5mpg on the road course then I tracked the car.
If you want to check the health of the car, get it out on the highway and run a full tank just cruising on the highway. you should see about 27mpg cruising at 65-75mph.
11-01-2009, 11:39 AM
#11
Ok my friend gave me an exhaust manifold that he had stored for a while now. It's a little rusted but he told me that it was working when he took it out. I'm not gonna use the pipe that goes to the EGR as I'm gonna use the same one that's on my car.
Seeing how the studs look, should I change them?
Seeing how the studs look, should I change them?
11-01-2009, 02:31 PM
#12
Change the EGR tube at least. maybe the studs if you can find some. if not, then use an old nut and liberally coat the studs with anti sieze and then run the nut on and off each one several times by hand (i.e. no impact wrench!!!) to clean up the threads before you stick it back on the car.
11-01-2009, 03:09 PM
#13
Ok my friend gave me an exhaust manifold that he had stored for a while now. It's a little rusted but he told me that it was working when he took it out. I'm not gonna use the pipe that goes to the EGR as I'm gonna use the same one that's on my car.
Seeing how the studs look, should I change them?
Seeing how the studs look, should I change them?
11-01-2009, 04:39 PM
#14
Change the EGR tube at least. maybe the studs if you can find some. if not, then use an old nut and liberally coat the studs with anti sieze and then run the nut on and off each one several times by hand (i.e. no impact wrench!!!) to clean up the threads before you stick it back on the car.
11-02-2009, 01:40 PM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,159
Thats the spec for the studs. No need to pay ripoff dealer prices for regular studs. These studs will have the small allen key hole on the end for installing and removing. Actually they call them socket set screws. Studs have no allen key hole.
11-02-2009, 02:56 PM
#16
M10X45 12.1 Socket Set Screw Coarse Plain Qty (6)
Thats the spec for the studs. No need to pay ripoff dealer prices for regular studs. These studs will have the small allen key hole on the end for installing and removing. Actually they call them socket set screws. Studs have no allen key hole.
Thats the spec for the studs. No need to pay ripoff dealer prices for regular studs. These studs will have the small allen key hole on the end for installing and removing. Actually they call them socket set screws. Studs have no allen key hole.
11-02-2009, 05:30 PM
#17
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,159
No blank band in them like the OEM ones. I install the set screws with anti-seize (on the whole stud) in case I have to get them out later, for some reason when torquing them with the hex nuts or flange nuts they don't move on me. I guess if they were moving you could put the little allen key hole on the top and hold it for a second until it grabs.
I used these also for example on the bottom of the VG tranny bellhousing too because those ones got ruined when I was removing them, as well on the exhaust manifolds and cat converter. So cheap at Fastenal.
I used these also for example on the bottom of the VG tranny bellhousing too because those ones got ruined when I was removing them, as well on the exhaust manifolds and cat converter. So cheap at Fastenal.
11-02-2009, 06:48 PM
#18
I'm just gonna stick with the OEM studs. And I was about to ask when putting in the new studs do I add threadlocker (red or blue?) on them or just let them reach to the blank band like on the manifold studs that go on the heads?
Speaking of which, I tried to remove one of them today but I have to use a lot of my strength in order to move it a little bit. So right now I have the studs sprayed in PB blast and let it soak in overnight. Spray them again in the morning, and try again in the afternoon.
Speaking of which, I tried to remove one of them today but I have to use a lot of my strength in order to move it a little bit. So right now I have the studs sprayed in PB blast and let it soak in overnight. Spray them again in the morning, and try again in the afternoon.
11-02-2009, 06:58 PM
#19
won't the threadlocker itself help protect the threads from corrosion? or will only antiseize do that? honestly this is probably the last set of studs he's ever gonna need.. why not use threadlocker?
11-02-2009, 09:35 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,159
Sure, he can use threadlocker, and yes, it does act as an anti-corrosion thing. In a way, it's an anti-seize - but get the loctite Blue, unless you want to be heating it up later if you need to remove them.
I've just never bought it, i've never needed it before, studs and bolts don't seem to rotate when I apply the torque wrench so I just leave them be with the anti-seize. But please, whatever you do, don't put the loctite in the exhaust manifold studs - to the head
[By the way jibbon, you probably don't even need to replace those studs. I bet if you hit it with a die grinder and a wire wheel like a cup brush, it'll take the filth right off. Problem I find with bolts is, once you start - you have to complete it - meaning you have to have the stuff to remove it. If you start mangling the threads with vice grips to remove it and you get stuck, you can end up spending more money on tools, all because of fasteners. But those specific ones can't be that hard to get out - it's those exhaust manifold studs, THEY ARE THE WORST - I REPEAT they almost rendered my cylinder head useless.]
I've just never bought it, i've never needed it before, studs and bolts don't seem to rotate when I apply the torque wrench so I just leave them be with the anti-seize. But please, whatever you do, don't put the loctite in the exhaust manifold studs - to the head
[By the way jibbon, you probably don't even need to replace those studs. I bet if you hit it with a die grinder and a wire wheel like a cup brush, it'll take the filth right off. Problem I find with bolts is, once you start - you have to complete it - meaning you have to have the stuff to remove it. If you start mangling the threads with vice grips to remove it and you get stuck, you can end up spending more money on tools, all because of fasteners. But those specific ones can't be that hard to get out - it's those exhaust manifold studs, THEY ARE THE WORST - I REPEAT they almost rendered my cylinder head useless.]
Last edited by 1993-VG30E-GXE; 11-02-2009 at 09:38 PM.
11-05-2009, 09:59 PM
#21
Well I have it installed and no good. Put some Seafoam for the smoke test and turns out that not only is it slightly warped, it has a crack as well. 
Oh well at least I didn't pay anything for it.
So I ordered a brand new one from Courtesy (with a few things as well) couple of hours ago. Sure I could have welded the crack but it's bound to crack open again soon as the one in the back did. Plus I wouldn't have to worry if it's warped or not.
Oh well at least I didn't pay anything for it.So I ordered a brand new one from Courtesy (with a few things as well) couple of hours ago. Sure I could have welded the crack but it's bound to crack open again soon as the one in the back did. Plus I wouldn't have to worry if it's warped or not.
11-16-2009, 11:03 PM
#22
Got the exhaust manifold today and installed it as soon as I got it. And as you guys suggested, I did use threadlocker (blue though forgot to get a red one from parts store) on the sutds so hopefully they should hold tight. Purrrr my little tiger, purrrr 
And just in time since this weekend I'm going to make a 250 mile highway trip to see some family members so now I will see the highway mileage on this baby.
Now that out of the way, now onto the weatherstripping. I got the weatherstrip that goes on top of the driver door panel since current one would get dragged by the window when it goes down and it will have a hard time bringing the window back up. I thought replacing it would be as easy as sliding it on but instead it is stapled onto the panel. Since I don't have a heavy duty stapler around, what would be a good alternative to attach the weatherstrip onto the panel?
And just in time since this weekend I'm going to make a 250 mile highway trip to see some family members so now I will see the highway mileage on this baby.
Now that out of the way, now onto the weatherstripping. I got the weatherstrip that goes on top of the driver door panel since current one would get dragged by the window when it goes down and it will have a hard time bringing the window back up. I thought replacing it would be as easy as sliding it on but instead it is stapled onto the panel. Since I don't have a heavy duty stapler around, what would be a good alternative to attach the weatherstrip onto the panel?
11-17-2009, 02:08 AM
#23
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Got the exhaust manifold today and installed it as soon as I got it. And as you guys suggested, I did use threadlocker (blue though forgot to get a red one from parts store) on the sutds so hopefully they should hold tight. Purrrr my little tiger, purrrr
And just in time since this weekend I'm going to make a 250 mile highway trip to see some family members so now I will see the highway mileage on this baby.
Now that out of the way, now onto the weatherstripping. I got the weatherstrip that goes on top of the driver door panel since current one would get dragged by the window when it goes down and it will have a hard time bringing the window back up. I thought replacing it would be as easy as sliding it on but instead it is stapled onto the panel. Since I don't have a heavy duty stapler around, what would be a good alternative to attach the weatherstrip onto the panel?
And just in time since this weekend I'm going to make a 250 mile highway trip to see some family members so now I will see the highway mileage on this baby.
Now that out of the way, now onto the weatherstripping. I got the weatherstrip that goes on top of the driver door panel since current one would get dragged by the window when it goes down and it will have a hard time bringing the window back up. I thought replacing it would be as easy as sliding it on but instead it is stapled onto the panel. Since I don't have a heavy duty stapler around, what would be a good alternative to attach the weatherstrip onto the panel?
Also where did you put the loctite? On the cylinder head studs 6 per side or just the header pipe flange like in your photo.
11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
#24
Got the manifold at Courtesy for $245.01 while the other dealers around me would charge me at least $330 for it. There was actually one dealer that told me that it would cost $400 and would need an updated exhaust manifold cover which would cost me and extra $100 
And yea I used the loctite on the bottom of the manifold. Hell no not on the heads.
And yea I used the loctite on the bottom of the manifold. Hell no not on the heads.
11-24-2009, 10:43 AM
#29
Fix the nut behind the wheel and watch your MPG improve
11-24-2009, 10:52 AM
#30
At 85, going uphill, then 21 isn't great but it's not bad...
I got over 30mpg on several trip cruising at 80, but it was on flat ground.
dirty air filters, tire air pressures, grabbing brakes, old O2 sensors, all kinds of things can cause lower mileage.
I got over 30mpg on several trip cruising at 80, but it was on flat ground.
dirty air filters, tire air pressures, grabbing brakes, old O2 sensors, all kinds of things can cause lower mileage.
11-24-2009, 01:10 PM
#31
Maybe I can lose some weight and that may help 
But I'm getting ready for thanksgiving and that's not going to help me.
And since holiday shopping is right around the corner so I won't be able to do anything to it until January.
But I'm getting ready for thanksgiving and that's not going to help me.And since holiday shopping is right around the corner so I won't be able to do anything to it until January.
01-25-2010, 07:35 PM
#32
I don't know how much I can take.... After doing the timing belt, today the engine starts to misfire and shake a lot. Cylinder #2 is being a bish right now.
- Pulled spark plug wire, no change in behavior
- Swapped spark plugs from another cylinder, same behavior
- Checked compression on cylinder, it's good
- Checked resistance of fuel injector, 13.4 ohms
Could it be that the injector is clogged or is about to fail? Any other suggestions?
- Pulled spark plug wire, no change in behavior
- Swapped spark plugs from another cylinder, same behavior
- Checked compression on cylinder, it's good
- Checked resistance of fuel injector, 13.4 ohms
Could it be that the injector is clogged or is about to fail? Any other suggestions?
01-26-2010, 04:16 PM
#34
Thanks I forgot about the NOID light.
I plugged it in, and it pulses all the time. So that's checked out.
Today I was driving it and sometimes it will start driving normally. As soon as I hit a red light, I can see the idle go down and running rough again.
I plugged it in, and it pulses all the time. So that's checked out.
Today I was driving it and sometimes it will start driving normally. As soon as I hit a red light, I can see the idle go down and running rough again.
01-27-2010, 10:25 PM
#35
I guess I'm on my own to try to figure this out?
Just in case the injector was failing I went to the pick-a-part and all of the injectors (and harness connectors) were taken off from all 3rd gens! Only one of them left the fuel rail behind.
Also, can a bad knock sensor cause these symptoms?
Just in case the injector was failing I went to the pick-a-part and all of the injectors (and harness connectors) were taken off from all 3rd gens! Only one of them left the fuel rail behind.
Also, can a bad knock sensor cause these symptoms?
01-27-2010, 10:33 PM
#36
... just in case you haven't already... maybe try pulling codes?
sounds like it could be a clogged injector,or maybe a dirty fuel filter causing the miss. knock sensor and o2 sensor are both also plausible for the lower MPG. Spark plug wires may also be cracked.
sounds like it could be a clogged injector,or maybe a dirty fuel filter causing the miss. knock sensor and o2 sensor are both also plausible for the lower MPG. Spark plug wires may also be cracked.
01-27-2010, 10:57 PM
#37
Spark plug wires have no cracks and all of them have a spark.
Did the fuel filter back in Sept and 7k miles ago.
Did the O2 sensor back in Oct and 5k miles ago.
Don't recall having the knock sensor changed since I started driving it (2006) so I will change that when I get a chance.
I'm hoping the injector is clogged. Yesterday I dumped a 20oz bottle of Techron concentrate while filling up the tank. I may do another round when filling up.
Last edited by jbbons25; 01-27-2010 at 11:01 PM.
02-21-2010, 10:30 PM
#38
Seems that I had more problems that what I thought. Had a cracked distributor cap which is now replaced. Had a few bad vaccuum lines which I replaced. Power valve is not working so I will need to order one.
Fixing those problems, now I believe for sure that there is a leaking injector.
-Now cylinders 1, 2 and 4 show little to no change in behavior when I remove their spark plug wires. And I changed the spark plugs as well. Noid light blinks on all injectors.
- When I go to Diagnostic Test Mode 3, it shows that that car is always running rich. Even after increasing the idle on the IACV (the screw is pretty high right now) I can't get it to run lean for a bit.
- When I cleaned and re-checked the ohm reading on all injectors, injector 3 shows 9.8 ohms. The rest are around 12.x ohms.
So I believe that injector 3 is the culprit. So I will need to get an injector ASAP because the car has been backfiring through the intake. Hope the valves are not getting messed up as well
Fixing those problems, now I believe for sure that there is a leaking injector.
-Now cylinders 1, 2 and 4 show little to no change in behavior when I remove their spark plug wires. And I changed the spark plugs as well. Noid light blinks on all injectors.
- When I go to Diagnostic Test Mode 3, it shows that that car is always running rich. Even after increasing the idle on the IACV (the screw is pretty high right now) I can't get it to run lean for a bit.
- When I cleaned and re-checked the ohm reading on all injectors, injector 3 shows 9.8 ohms. The rest are around 12.x ohms.
So I believe that injector 3 is the culprit. So I will need to get an injector ASAP because the car has been backfiring through the intake. Hope the valves are not getting messed up as well
Last edited by jbbons25; 02-21-2010 at 10:40 PM.
02-23-2010, 06:36 PM
#39
Ok weird.... The car started running normally since yesterday morning. So I'm guessing an injector was dirty which finally cleared up. Knock on wood!
But should I still take care of the 9.8 ohm injector #3?
But should I still take care of the 9.8 ohm injector #3?
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