The 5th Gen Piggyback/Tuning Thread
10-26-2011, 02:03 PM
#201
PM him. MoncefA33
http://forums.maxima.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=89934
11-06-2011, 05:17 AM
#202
Anyone got any ideas for someone like me with a 6.5 gen? I was told to find somebody with really good software and have then retune my engine the way I want it? Is this guy telling me true or false? If true, whats the best software. What kind of person/place would do this for me. Any help is appreciated.! Thanks
11-17-2011, 09:15 PM
#203
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Looking forward for a prompt reply.
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03-08-2012, 04:02 AM
#205
So my easy question last night got lost in the great flame war, but I'm just kind of curious as to the header situation.
Get headers, which replaces the y-pipe (includes it's own) and then you need something like an SAFC to adjust the A/F. Is there anything else really? Just kinda looking at some food for though
Get headers, which replaces the y-pipe (includes it's own) and then you need something like an SAFC to adjust the A/F. Is there anything else really? Just kinda looking at some food for though
04-07-2012, 01:14 PM
#207
So the 6th gens don't need a special O2 sensor because their O2s are already wideband, correct?
I'm looking into replacing my ailing, vibrating precats with Cattman headers on an otherwise stock car. Since my car is new enough to rock out UpRev's stuff, I can just swing by the local tuning shop (http://www.dynosty.com/blog/) and pay them to fix the ignition timing to something geared for premium fuel, raise the rev limiter a bit, and get fixed fuel maps, all in one go? Or do I still need other equipment to feed the ECU or tuners with enough information to accomplish all this?
My goal is simply to kill the precats, not create a 6th gen that thinks it's as fast as a 5.5 gen. I want something subtle so I can eventually sell the car and get something RWD pull a Rochester.
I'm looking into replacing my ailing, vibrating precats with Cattman headers on an otherwise stock car. Since my car is new enough to rock out UpRev's stuff, I can just swing by the local tuning shop (http://www.dynosty.com/blog/) and pay them to fix the ignition timing to something geared for premium fuel, raise the rev limiter a bit, and get fixed fuel maps, all in one go? Or do I still need other equipment to feed the ECU or tuners with enough information to accomplish all this?
My goal is simply to kill the precats, not create a 6th gen that thinks it's as fast as a 5.5 gen. I want something subtle so I can eventually sell the car and get something RWD pull a Rochester.
Last edited by Eirik; 04-07-2012 at 01:18 PM.
04-09-2012, 10:51 AM
#208
I'm looking into replacing my ailing, vibrating precats with Cattman headers on an otherwise stock car. Since my car is new enough to rock out UpRev's stuff, I can just swing by the local tuning shop (http://www.dynosty.com/blog/) and pay them to fix the ignition timing to something geared for premium fuel, raise the rev limiter a bit, and get fixed fuel maps, all in one go? Or do I still need other equipment to feed the ECU or tuners with enough information to accomplish all this?
The 6th gen can use the OSIRUS (fuel/timing, not sure about rev)
04-15-2012, 07:58 AM
#209
6th gen. I REALLY should update my signature picture to end this confusion, eh?
Also, UpRev is the company. Cipher is their logging software and Osiris is their ECU-flashing software.
I struck up a conversation with the guys at that tuner shop in Louisville and this is what I learned:
1. They can tune 04-08 (possibly higher?) Maximas, but they might have to send off to UpRev to get back custom code to interface with the ECU. When I inquired a week ago, they (Dynosty) only had an '05 5-speed auto in their system. They were confident they can flash any of them, given a bit more time than the one ECU variant they have on file.
2. It costs $600 to do this. $300 for the Osiris license and $300 for the dyno tuning time.
3. You can tune a 6th gen for headers without any installing any AFCs. =D The wideband O2 sensors in the 6th gen (Nissan calls them "Air/Fuel Sensors" to distinguish from the "Heated Oxygen Sensors") have an output range of nearly 0 to nearly 3 volts, with 1.5 being stoichiometric.
But I was confused. I was under the false impression that even aftermarket pre-cats for VQ35s cost $500, a paltry savings on the $700 OEM variant. WRONG! RockAuto is selling Wagners for $220 each, with a $50 rebate to boo! So I bought two new aftermarket precats, with shipping, for exactly half(!!) the price of one Nissan precat.
When I get them swapped on, I'll do a "Look at these images and tremble" thread and shoot more holes in the "my precats went up my exhaust stream and exploded my engine
" theory. 
PS: I keep posting in this forum because, NMex my friend, the 6th gen guys are straight up embarrassing! Even the guys with the fastest fat-body Maximas on the planet know less about how it all works than a certain member on here that hearts his crazy loop exhaust complete with "merril" bends. There is not a single Sparksmax, not a single NMex, nor any Nelledges, not even a Scottwax and certainly not a Rochester! It's embarassing. Case in point.
Also, UpRev is the company. Cipher is their logging software and Osiris is their ECU-flashing software.
I struck up a conversation with the guys at that tuner shop in Louisville and this is what I learned:
1. They can tune 04-08 (possibly higher?) Maximas, but they might have to send off to UpRev to get back custom code to interface with the ECU. When I inquired a week ago, they (Dynosty) only had an '05 5-speed auto in their system. They were confident they can flash any of them, given a bit more time than the one ECU variant they have on file.
2. It costs $600 to do this. $300 for the Osiris license and $300 for the dyno tuning time.
3. You can tune a 6th gen for headers without any installing any AFCs. =D The wideband O2 sensors in the 6th gen (Nissan calls them "Air/Fuel Sensors" to distinguish from the "Heated Oxygen Sensors") have an output range of nearly 0 to nearly 3 volts, with 1.5 being stoichiometric.
But I was confused. I was under the false impression that even aftermarket pre-cats for VQ35s cost $500, a paltry savings on the $700 OEM variant. WRONG! RockAuto is selling Wagners for $220 each, with a $50 rebate to boo! So I bought two new aftermarket precats, with shipping, for exactly half(!!) the price of one Nissan precat.
When I get them swapped on, I'll do a "Look at these images and tremble" thread and shoot more holes in the "my precats went up my exhaust stream and exploded my engine
" theory. PS: I keep posting in this forum because, NMex my friend, the 6th gen guys are straight up embarrassing! Even the guys with the fastest fat-body Maximas on the planet know less about how it all works than a certain member on here that hearts his crazy loop exhaust complete with "merril" bends. There is not a single Sparksmax, not a single NMex, nor any Nelledges, not even a Scottwax and certainly not a Rochester! It's embarassing. Case in point.
Last edited by Eirik; 04-15-2012 at 08:07 AM.
04-17-2012, 08:52 AM
#210
Looks as if you’ve done enough research to answer your on questions. 
I’ve read on the Z/G sites that some of them still get an aftermarket WB since it has a bit more resolution (0-5v, vs 0-3v) IMO, I think it’s fine (OEM 3V), but as far as the 5 and 5.5gen are concerned (general information and to not confuse anyone), that narrowband 0-1v just is pathetic for accurate AFR control.
Looks like you’re well on your way to make a cool 6th gen.
I’ve read on the Z/G sites that some of them still get an aftermarket WB since it has a bit more resolution (0-5v, vs 0-3v) IMO, I think it’s fine (OEM 3V), but as far as the 5 and 5.5gen are concerned (general information and to not confuse anyone), that narrowband 0-1v just is pathetic for accurate AFR control.
Looks like you’re well on your way to make a cool 6th gen.
05-12-2012, 10:57 PM
#212
shouldn't we move this thread to the All Motor section maybe even tho it would be relevant for FI too, but I think it might get more traffic there than just the 5th gen section...
any of you guys with BBMAFs, or even anyone with a normal maf but logging capabilities, is your maf variance as big as this? it fluctuates almost .6v.... that makes it jump up and down between cells in my maps, making for a zaggedy AFR as well.. Plus I think the stock maps fluctuate between those voltage difference as well, making it all around harder to tune
any of you guys with BBMAFs, or even anyone with a normal maf but logging capabilities, is your maf variance as big as this? it fluctuates almost .6v.... that makes it jump up and down between cells in my maps, making for a zaggedy AFR as well.. Plus I think the stock maps fluctuate between those voltage difference as well, making it all around harder to tune
05-17-2012, 02:22 PM
#213
I agree, but thought it would be nice to keep it in here as a starter thread for those that are interested, but have yet to take the next step.
I might add it to a relevant sticky in the AM section come to think about it.
Also, some things are universal, but I like how Ceffy tailored it to the 5th gen crowd.
OAN:
I have some old MAF logs, let me take a quick look.
Ok I'm back ..
Purple line ... raw data is converted to %, in this it is 0 = 0% 5v = 100% (even though we know that's not the case, max is 4.77, which seen here is 94.5%
With all that said , mine fluctuates between 0.27 and 0.40 volts under heavy load/RPM (5K+). So, not much.
I haven't done any recent testing with the complete 3.5" intake. So, i will do that and let you know, but for the most part, my AFR;s have been quite smooth.
Seen both with my dnyos and WB.
Black line = AFR, red = RPM
I might add it to a relevant sticky in the AM section come to think about it.
Also, some things are universal, but I like how Ceffy tailored it to the 5th gen crowd.
OAN:
I have some old MAF logs, let me take a quick look.
Ok I'm back ..
Purple line ... raw data is converted to %, in this it is 0 = 0% 5v = 100% (even though we know that's not the case, max is 4.77, which seen here is 94.5%
With all that said , mine fluctuates between 0.27 and 0.40 volts under heavy load/RPM (5K+). So, not much.
I haven't done any recent testing with the complete 3.5" intake. So, i will do that and let you know, but for the most part, my AFR;s have been quite smooth.
Seen both with my dnyos and WB.
Black line = AFR, red = RPM
Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-17-2012 at 02:39 PM.
12-06-2012, 07:03 AM
#217
12-25-2012, 01:43 PM
#220
No.
12-26-2012, 06:36 PM
#224
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 15
On our cars the fuel/ignition maps are designed rather conservatively to balance performance, fuel mileage as well as knock suppression for those who use less than 92/91 octane fuel. So the timing curve isn’t aggressive and fuel maps are on the rich side. For Maximas with breathing mods (headers/exhaust mainly), the car’s factory ECU can readjust itself to optimize the Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) inside the engine at part throttle/cruise because it gets feedback from both the MAF sensor and O2 sensor. However, at WOT, the factory ECU goes into “open-loop” mode, where the fuel/timing is determined by a table using Airflow voltage (engine load) vs. RPM. Since the ECU is ignoring readings from the car’s O2 sensors, the AFR is not adjusted, and therefore not optimized.
12-28-2012, 01:55 PM
#225
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26
Lmao i didnt think i needed to state the obvious, i know u cant use Word but point taken.. its a performance shop tht has a tuning software supposedly and told me it can be done with just tht(which is on his laptop) i've done some reading and i've found different opinions on this, some say u do, some say u dont so i was just looking for more feedback tht all..thanks
08-11-2013, 05:48 AM
#229
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 23
Is it possible that the obdII Bluetooth / phone app tuners will replace the simpler piggy backs or is the obd port limited to ignition advance only? I know it can't replace haltec, utec etc that's not what I'm talking about. I mean the controlers like AEM FIC and apexi. Would changes made through obd be persistent?
08-22-2013, 09:41 AM
#230
Is it possible that the obdII Bluetooth / phone app tuners will replace the simpler piggy backs or is the obd port limited to ignition advance only? I know it can't replace haltec, utec etc that's not what I'm talking about. I mean the controlers like AEM FIC and apexi. Would changes made through obd be persistent?
1.) Market isn't there for say a BDGT or Cobb type tuner
2.) Phone apps/OBDII/Consult interface isn't advanced enough like the 6th gen in order to support an UpRev type of tuner.
04-20-2014, 04:15 PM
#231
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 183
Is there any kind of auto tuning that can be made on these cars? For example with spacers , intake, exhaust, block off plate , ypipe.
I dont need anything but a small tune for everyday street use. Will a performance shop have what is needed to do this?
I dont need anything but a small tune for everyday street use. Will a performance shop have what is needed to do this?
04-21-2014, 07:12 AM
#233
You will need to bring:
1) some type of tuning program:
- SAFC2 ($200)
or
- e-Manage ultimate ($800)
or
- Haltech ($1500)
and
2) wideband
- AEM UEGO ($150)
04-21-2014, 10:59 PM
#234
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 183
By auto tune ... just something I can plug in and choose a simple street tune instead of playing with settings wich is way to advanced.
From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.
Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?
From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.
Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?
Last edited by maximasicilian123; 04-21-2014 at 11:03 PM.
04-22-2014, 08:39 AM
#235
By auto tune ... just something I can plug in and choose a simple street tune instead of playing with settings wich is way to advanced.
From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.
Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?
From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.
Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?
The SAFC does the same, only thing is that you need to actually dial it in initially which takes a few street runs or some dyno time.
If that's the case, then "tuning" is not for you.
No "chips" for these cars.
05-18-2015, 08:47 PM
#236
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 236
uti
sorry for reviving an old thread but i noticed that there wasnt too much talk of uti software.
http://www.jeffsoftware.com/index.php
its nice because you can datalog the utec and wideband together at the same time.
http://www.jeffsoftware.com/index.php
its nice because you can datalog the utec and wideband together at the same time.
05-18-2015, 09:00 PM
#237
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 236
ive been having a hard time installing my utec into my 350z. Ive been asking around all the z forums and decided to try this knowing that guys install utec on the max.
was wondering if anyone had advice for me. I bought a used utec a while back, just installed it today. The car starts and idles fine but the check engine, tcs off, and slip lights all come on and i can not rev past 2k rpm. I can communicate with it through hyperterminal. I tried a few different maps and even when i use the 0 map the problem remains. Any help would be appreciated. i set the base maps and parameters off the turboxs site. Should i be trying to get a better ground? im at a loss. thanks
was wondering if anyone had advice for me. I bought a used utec a while back, just installed it today. The car starts and idles fine but the check engine, tcs off, and slip lights all come on and i can not rev past 2k rpm. I can communicate with it through hyperterminal. I tried a few different maps and even when i use the 0 map the problem remains. Any help would be appreciated. i set the base maps and parameters off the turboxs site. Should i be trying to get a better ground? im at a loss. thanks
08-09-2019, 07:13 PM
#238
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 7
Help needed for tunning
If the mods like this, make it a sticky
There are a lot of noob threads regarding simple tuning devices and how to tune, etc. So hopefully this thread will clear up most of it.
Why tune an N/A car?
On our cars the fuel/ignition maps are designed rather conservatively to balance performance, fuel mileage as well as knock suppression for those who use less than 92/91 octane fuel. So the timing curve isn’t aggressive and fuel maps are on the rich side. For Maximas with breathing mods (headers/exhaust mainly), the car’s factory ECU can readjust itself to optimize the Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) inside the engine at part throttle/cruise because it gets feedback from both the MAF sensor and O2 sensor. However, at WOT, the factory ECU goes into “open-loop” mode, where the fuel/timing is determined by a table using Airflow voltage (engine load) vs. RPM. Since the ECU is ignoring readings from the car’s O2 sensors, the AFR is not adjusted, and therefore not optimized.
Bolt-ons/breathing mods are half the battle. With OBD2 cars it’s important to realize that optimizing the software/electronics plays the biggest part in good horsepower numbers. So even for something like 00VI swaps, where you’re swapping OEM manifolds/injectors, a tune is important to get the most gains out of it (DEK injectors run pig rich on 4th gens with 00VI swaps)
Notes about AFR:
Monitoring your AFR:
Ignition timing is the main tool for increasing the horsepower in any engine, the AFR only part of the story. The key is getting the entire timing curve correct on your tune. This is best done on a dyno since the timing curve is actually the inverse of the torque curve, meaning that you want to run more advanced timing on your low-end and higher rpm areas, while the area around peak torque will have slightly less advanced (or retarded) ignition timing.
VQ30/35s, as stated above have relatively conservative ignition timing curves in the interest of knock suppression when crappy fuel is used (yes, there are cheap bastards who drive Maximas. Haha) so this is a big power maker for our cars, and even when tuning on the street, my butt dyno saw noticeable gains with about 7 degrees of ignition advance.
Notes about ignition timing:That’s a start for now, if anyone has any questions, we can use this thread for discussion, advice, show our maps/datalogs/etc.
**I WILL BE UPDATING THIS WITH MORE 5.5 GEN STUFF LIKE UTECH/TECHNOSQUARE**
People who have used certain software/piggybacks can post their reviews/thoughts/experiences for benefit of the thread.
There are a lot of noob threads regarding simple tuning devices and how to tune, etc. So hopefully this thread will clear up most of it.
Why tune an N/A car?
On our cars the fuel/ignition maps are designed rather conservatively to balance performance, fuel mileage as well as knock suppression for those who use less than 92/91 octane fuel. So the timing curve isn’t aggressive and fuel maps are on the rich side. For Maximas with breathing mods (headers/exhaust mainly), the car’s factory ECU can readjust itself to optimize the Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) inside the engine at part throttle/cruise because it gets feedback from both the MAF sensor and O2 sensor. However, at WOT, the factory ECU goes into “open-loop” mode, where the fuel/timing is determined by a table using Airflow voltage (engine load) vs. RPM. Since the ECU is ignoring readings from the car’s O2 sensors, the AFR is not adjusted, and therefore not optimized.
Bolt-ons/breathing mods are half the battle. With OBD2 cars it’s important to realize that optimizing the software/electronics plays the biggest part in good horsepower numbers. So even for something like 00VI swaps, where you’re swapping OEM manifolds/injectors, a tune is important to get the most gains out of it (DEK injectors run pig rich on 4th gens with 00VI swaps)
Notes about AFR:
-AFR ranges from 10.0 to 20.0 (full-rich or full-lean)
-Stoich (where all the fuel is burned with the air in the combustion chamber) is 14.7:1
-The ECU tries to maintain a 14.7-15.5 AFR during part throttle/cruise for maximum fuel efficiency.
-At WOT, an optimal AFR for an N/A VQ is 12.7-13.5.
-AFR is relatively easy to tune on the street.
Main ways to tune:-Running a less than aggressive AFR (12.5-12.8) is beneficial if you also want to increase ignition timing and push your WHP even farther up.
-An untuned DE-K with intake/headers/exhaust AFR runs 11.9 AFR at WOT, dipping down to about 10.8 at ~6,500 RPM.-AFR is relatively easy to tune on the street.
-Apexi VAFC/VAFC2
-Apexi SAFC/SAFC2
-GReddy e-Manage Blue & e-Manage Ultimate
Notes about the AFC units (V/SAFC/1/2)-Apexi SAFC/SAFC2
-GReddy e-Manage Blue & e-Manage Ultimate
-All of these units adjust your AFR by manipulating the airflow input (MAF) signal.
-Pros:
-Easy to hook up and tune, does fine for N/A AFR tuning.
-VAFC/1/2 units can control the variable intake switchover (00VI swaps)
-Cons:
-Leaning out your AFR using an AFC unit indirectly advances your ignition timing. The con here is you cannot monitor the timing changes.
-Limited “advanced” tuning options (ie; direct ignition control, rev limiter, launch control, etc.)
-You can’t tune without a wideband O2 sensor to monitor AFR from your exhaust.
-One thing worth mentioning about widebands is being able to datalog to a laptop or a piggyback. This is especially important for tuning. Innovate LC-1 has the ability to datalog directly to your laptop, whereas the AEM UEGO wideband has a serial and analog (IIRC) output that can plug into certain piggyback controllers.
Ignition timing:Ignition timing is the main tool for increasing the horsepower in any engine, the AFR only part of the story. The key is getting the entire timing curve correct on your tune. This is best done on a dyno since the timing curve is actually the inverse of the torque curve, meaning that you want to run more advanced timing on your low-end and higher rpm areas, while the area around peak torque will have slightly less advanced (or retarded) ignition timing.
VQ30/35s, as stated above have relatively conservative ignition timing curves in the interest of knock suppression when crappy fuel is used (yes, there are cheap bastards who drive Maximas. Haha) so this is a big power maker for our cars, and even when tuning on the street, my butt dyno saw noticeable gains with about 7 degrees of ignition advance.
Notes about ignition timing:
-To fully optimize your ignition timing, it has to be done on a dyno
-Not only for the reasons stated above, but to get the optimal advance doesn’t necessarily mean advance it as far as possible before setting off the knock sensor, since there’s a point where the power gains level off completely, and that is your optimal ignition timing.
Monitoring & controlling ignition timing-The only way I know of to monitor/datalog ignition timing is by using a piggyback that has outputs for ignition control.
-Examples:
-GReddy e-Manage Blue (not 100% confirmed? A few 5.5 guys who run the Blue say that timing can be controlled)
-GReddy e-Manage Ultimate (datalogger offers ignition monitoring, and allows ignition control for every cylinder.)
Above: e-Manage Ultimate datalogger, recording MAF input, injector pulse, AFR, ignition timing
Above: e-Manage Ultimate fuel maps (I/J map 1) showing injector pulsewidth for MAF voltage vs. RPM.
Above: e-Manage Ultimate datalogger, recording MAF input, injector pulse, AFR, ignition timing
Above: e-Manage Ultimate fuel maps (I/J map 1) showing injector pulsewidth for MAF voltage vs. RPM.
**I WILL BE UPDATING THIS WITH MORE 5.5 GEN STUFF LIKE UTECH/TECHNOSQUARE**
People who have used certain software/piggybacks can post their reviews/thoughts/experiences for benefit of the thread.
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Stormzusmc
5th Generation Maxima (2000-2003)
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04-07-2009 10:37 AM