To those with a tune...look what the MN tuners said..
03-25-2009, 03:16 PM
#1
To those with a tune...look what the MN tuners said..
Here is the quote from the tuning shop here in MN. After I asked them about tuning my Max with my mods (listed in my sig). I also asked them which platform was supported and perferred by them...here is the response....
PS I also told them I will being doing a timing advance on the Max as well
"Nobody does a lot of aftermarket work with Maximas locally, we probably do as much as anyone.
The SAFC and SMT-7 are like comparing apples and oranges. The SAFC would be easy to install and tune, but very limited in what it can do. While the SMT-7 is one of the more advanced piggyback systems. If your car is running too rich under full throttle though and it needs to be leaned out, doign that with an SAFC will usually have the side effect of adding ignition timing advance sue to it changing the load reported to the ECU."
^there it is...thoughts?
PS I also told them I will being doing a timing advance on the Max as well
"Nobody does a lot of aftermarket work with Maximas locally, we probably do as much as anyone.
The SAFC and SMT-7 are like comparing apples and oranges. The SAFC would be easy to install and tune, but very limited in what it can do. While the SMT-7 is one of the more advanced piggyback systems. If your car is running too rich under full throttle though and it needs to be leaned out, doign that with an SAFC will usually have the side effect of adding ignition timing advance sue to it changing the load reported to the ECU."
^there it is...thoughts?
03-25-2009, 03:32 PM
#2
What exactly are you looking for 'thoughts' on?
He's correct about the SAFC, any 'tuning' device that changes the MAF reading to alter AFR will also alter ignition timing.
It's up to you, either a VAFC-II if you want a basic tune done, or my personal favorite, the EU for a lot more options and control.
He's correct about the SAFC, any 'tuning' device that changes the MAF reading to alter AFR will also alter ignition timing.
It's up to you, either a VAFC-II if you want a basic tune done, or my personal favorite, the EU for a lot more options and control.
03-25-2009, 03:36 PM
#3
Shouldve been more specific in my "thought" questions. Anyway, he seems to think I would most likely lose power if I got a tune done. I did not mention that I thought I had...Anyway with that being said. I would like to get a tune but if I lose power...then why try?
03-25-2009, 03:46 PM
#4
If you did, I'd blame the tuner first, honestly.
03-25-2009, 03:56 PM
#6
I seriously doubt you'll loose power. I gained about 28hp from my tune with a VAFC II (had headers installed though). The guy is right though about the units.... The vafc/safc is pretty basic. The guy who tuned my car said I would have gained more if I would have had a unit with more control. If I could do it over agian I would have gone with the EU.
03-25-2009, 04:55 PM
#9
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=916832
03-25-2009, 05:00 PM
#10
The VAFC-II has more tuning points, among other minor details.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=916832
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=916832
03-25-2009, 05:09 PM
#11
You'll be able to fine tune a lot better with more tuning points, resulting in a smoother curve.
03-25-2009, 06:16 PM
#12
Got ya, but it's not gonna be like I'd get A LOT more HP with the VAFC2 over the 1, I assume. Minimal gain difference I hope?
03-25-2009, 06:32 PM
#13
as pmohr stated, youll have a smoother power curve, im pretty sure you can tune for every 250rpms with the vafc2 and 500rpms with the vafc1, so you might gain alittle bit, but it would prob be from the more changes your making then anything else. i would personally look into a better tuning source, something that could control rev limit, timing, a/f ratios, knock, and if you go boost a map sensor.
03-25-2009, 06:35 PM
#14
as pmohr stated, youll have a smoother power curve, im pretty sure you can tune for every 250rpms with the vafc2 and 500rpms with the vafc1, so you might gain alittle bit, but it would prob be from the more changes your making then anything else. i would personally look into a better tuning source, something that could control rev limit, timing, a/f ratios, knock, and if you go boost a map sensor.
03-25-2009, 06:54 PM
#15
as pmohr stated, youll have a smoother power curve, im pretty sure you can tune for every 250rpms with the vafc2 and 500rpms with the vafc1, so you might gain alittle bit, but it would prob be from the more changes your making then anything else. i would personally look into a better tuning source, something that could control rev limit, timing, a/f ratios, knock, and if you go boost a map sensor.
03-25-2009, 07:20 PM
#17
well the turboXS utec splices into the factory harness ( the 350z unit) and does all of what i mentioned, check my350.com classifieds, i would guess a used one would be close to 500-600. but well worth the money vs. the simple vafc1 or 2.
03-25-2009, 07:36 PM
#18
03-25-2009, 07:43 PM
#20
emanage ultimate, its a piggy back from greddy, cheaper than a utec but less options,and the utec is made for the 350z, so when you install it, it already has a base map for you to work with. im getting a utec in the next couple months. if you wanted to keep it basic, you could just get the technosquare L spec and an air fuel controller, but it would cost you around the same as a utec.
03-25-2009, 09:15 PM
#23
i'm tuned with an emanage blue and I'm happy with my numbers. I don't need an extended rev limit. I can play with the timing, adjust AFR. The only thing I would want from the EU is the launch control. It wasn't worth the extra price for me.
03-25-2009, 09:17 PM
#24
So basically if I get the emanage blue I wouldnt need to go to the stealership to get a timing timing advance....I've read a lot of them do that...so I'm just going to have to go ahead and assume thats true unless someone tells me otherwise
03-25-2009, 09:19 PM
#25
03-25-2009, 09:39 PM
#26
You can add timing with the emanage blue. But it won't show up on a lot of scanner software. For example if you have autoenginuity and then use the emanage to advance the timing it won't show up. But if you use a timing light you will see the jump. I think you can go plus or minus five degrees. A lot of the guys in the all motor forum disagreed with this, but dandymax hooked up a timing light to my car at the strip and we checked and confirmed that this is possible.
I think a lot of people were surprised because when advancing the timing there was no proof of it unless you use a light. I'm not 100% on the explanation but I think it is because the ECU is bypassed and it reports what it thinks the timing is at, whereas the timing light is seeing what the emanage has intercepted and corrected. (hope that makes sense)
If you plug into the OBD-2 dataport the ECU will report the base timing regardless of what the emanage blue has the timing set at.
I have my base tuning at 17* using the autoenginuity software, and then I have added up to 6* timing at 70% throttle up to WOT. IIRC But you can add timing anywhere you want with the emanage blue.
I think a lot of people were surprised because when advancing the timing there was no proof of it unless you use a light. I'm not 100% on the explanation but I think it is because the ECU is bypassed and it reports what it thinks the timing is at, whereas the timing light is seeing what the emanage has intercepted and corrected. (hope that makes sense)
If you plug into the OBD-2 dataport the ECU will report the base timing regardless of what the emanage blue has the timing set at.
I have my base tuning at 17* using the autoenginuity software, and then I have added up to 6* timing at 70% throttle up to WOT. IIRC But you can add timing anywhere you want with the emanage blue.
Last edited by knight_yyz; 03-25-2009 at 09:42 PM.
03-25-2009, 10:24 PM
#28
03-28-2009, 09:27 AM
#32
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: fort rucker Alabama
Posts: 5
anyone looking for a utec?
hey i see the debate between tuning sources. I have a 350z utec that was on my altima se-r. I put the car back to as stock as i could get it before I deployed. (My wife doesnt need a race car) I am selling it if anyone is interested. 600 shipped. it is plug and play for the 3.5 guys I think 04-07 for the max. you'd have to research that part. They make a huge difference though. Screw the vafc or II it is a waste for the money. there is so much power hidden by the stock mapping. not just fuel but timing and with the utec you can set it up for all year performance. If you tune your vafc or II in the summer, the winter performance will suck becuase as temps change so should your fuel curves. also the utec allows for multiple maps which I wsa using one tune for great fuel economy and then all i had to do is flip a switch and it was in performance mode. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
04-06-2009, 06:28 AM
#34
Da*n, you guys are way more technically smart on the Max than I can ever dream of being. You're throwing around phrases and terms that I've only seen being used in Road & Track and Import Tuner magazine. Makes for an enlightening read though, at least for me.
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