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The 5th Gen Piggyback/Tuning Thread

5th Generation Maxima (2000-2003) Learn more about the 5th Generation Maxima, including the VQ30DE-K and VQ35DE engines.

The 5th Gen Piggyback/Tuning Thread

Old 10-26-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by clintb3astwood View Post
I was wondering, which is better, the Safc or the Vafc and to the guy that made this thread where are you located? send me a pm!
Depends... VAFCII has more tuning points, but SAFCII makes BBMAF's PnP.

PM him. MoncefA33

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Old 11-06-2011, 06:17 AM
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Anyone got any ideas for someone like me with a 6.5 gen? I was told to find somebody with really good software and have then retune my engine the way I want it? Is this guy telling me true or false? If true, whats the best software. What kind of person/place would do this for me. Any help is appreciated.! Thanks
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:15 PM
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Looking forward for a prompt reply.

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Old 11-19-2011, 04:45 PM
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UpRev OSIRUS.


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Old 03-08-2012, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by merovi View Post
So my easy question last night got lost in the great flame war, but I'm just kind of curious as to the header situation.

Get headers, which replaces the y-pipe (includes it's own) and then you need something like an SAFC to adjust the A/F. Is there anything else really? Just kinda looking at some food for though
I've been wondering this. When I put Cattman headers on a bone stock DE-K. I've been led to believe it's going to run rich. Can I use something as simple as the HKS MAF AFR unit http://www.hks-power.co.jp/usa/products/Pid=632.html & tune to correct for the headers. Or is it necessary to get into something more complicated/expensive.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:49 AM
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Get a wideband and AFC, that's the cheapest, most versatile (for the price) and easiest way to go.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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So the 6th gens don't need a special O2 sensor because their O2s are already wideband, correct?

I'm looking into replacing my ailing, vibrating precats with Cattman headers on an otherwise stock car. Since my car is new enough to rock out UpRev's stuff, I can just swing by the local tuning shop (http://www.dynosty.com/blog/) and pay them to fix the ignition timing to something geared for premium fuel, raise the rev limiter a bit, and get fixed fuel maps, all in one go? Or do I still need other equipment to feed the ECU or tuners with enough information to accomplish all this?

My goal is simply to kill the precats, not create a 6th gen that thinks it's as fast as a 5.5 gen. I want something subtle so I can eventually sell the car and get something RWD pull a Rochester.

Last edited by Eirik; 04-07-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Eirik View Post
So the 6th gens don't need a special O2 sensor because their O2s are already wideband, correct?
Theoretically, no. With the 6th gens, you can get a software program like UpRev/OSIRUS and monitor them, and tune also.


Originally Posted by Eirik View Post
I'm looking into replacing my ailing, vibrating precats with Cattman headers on an otherwise stock car. Since my car is new enough to rock out UpRev's stuff, I can just swing by the local tuning shop (http://www.dynosty.com/blog/) and pay them to fix the ignition timing to something geared for premium fuel, raise the rev limiter a bit, and get fixed fuel maps, all in one go? Or do I still need other equipment to feed the ECU or tuners with enough information to accomplish all this?
No, you can only bump base timing 2. You cannot tune the AFR or dynamic timing or change the rev limiter with the Uprev. It's more of a glorified monitoring software than tuning software. OSIRUS can, but our ECU's aren't new enough.

Originally Posted by Eirik View Post
My goal is simply to kill the precats, not create a 6th gen that thinks it's as fast as a 5.5 gen. I want something subtle so I can eventually sell the car and get something RWD pull a Rochester.
So, are you asking about a 6th gen or 5.5 gen?

The 6th gen can use the OSIRUS (fuel/timing, not sure about rev)
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:58 AM
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6th gen. I REALLY should update my signature picture to end this confusion, eh?
Also, UpRev is the company. Cipher is their logging software and Osiris is their ECU-flashing software.

I struck up a conversation with the guys at that tuner shop in Louisville and this is what I learned:
1. They can tune 04-08 (possibly higher?) Maximas, but they might have to send off to UpRev to get back custom code to interface with the ECU. When I inquired a week ago, they (Dynosty) only had an '05 5-speed auto in their system. They were confident they can flash any of them, given a bit more time than the one ECU variant they have on file.
2. It costs $600 to do this. $300 for the Osiris license and $300 for the dyno tuning time.
3. You can tune a 6th gen for headers without any installing any AFCs. =D The wideband O2 sensors in the 6th gen (Nissan calls them "Air/Fuel Sensors" to distinguish from the "Heated Oxygen Sensors") have an output range of nearly 0 to nearly 3 volts, with 1.5 being stoichiometric.


But I was confused. I was under the false impression that even aftermarket pre-cats for VQ35s cost $500, a paltry savings on the $700 OEM variant. WRONG! RockAuto is selling Wagners for $220 each, with a $50 rebate to boo! So I bought two new aftermarket precats, with shipping, for exactly half(!!) the price of one Nissan precat.

When I get them swapped on, I'll do a "Look at these images and tremble" thread and shoot more holes in the "my precats went up my exhaust stream and exploded my engine " theory.

PS: I keep posting in this forum because, NMex my friend, the 6th gen guys are straight up embarrassing! Even the guys with the fastest fat-body Maximas on the planet know less about how it all works than a certain member on here that hearts his crazy loop exhaust complete with "merril" bends. There is not a single Sparksmax, not a single NMex, nor any Nelledges, not even a Scottwax and certainly not a Rochester! It's embarassing. Case in point.

Last edited by Eirik; 04-15-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:52 AM
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Looks as if you’ve done enough research to answer your on questions.

I’ve read on the Z/G sites that some of them still get an aftermarket WB since it has a bit more resolution (0-5v, vs 0-3v) IMO, I think it’s fine (OEM 3V), but as far as the 5 and 5.5gen are concerned (general information and to not confuse anyone), that narrowband 0-1v just is pathetic for accurate AFR control.

Looks like you’re well on your way to make a cool 6th gen.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:45 AM
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Wow got a lot of studying to do here and there before dynoing
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:57 PM
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shouldn't we move this thread to the All Motor section maybe even tho it would be relevant for FI too, but I think it might get more traffic there than just the 5th gen section...

any of you guys with BBMAFs, or even anyone with a normal maf but logging capabilities, is your maf variance as big as this? it fluctuates almost .6v.... that makes it jump up and down between cells in my maps, making for a zaggedy AFR as well.. Plus I think the stock maps fluctuate between those voltage difference as well, making it all around harder to tune

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Old 05-17-2012, 03:22 PM
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I agree, but thought it would be nice to keep it in here as a starter thread for those that are interested, but have yet to take the next step.

I might add it to a relevant sticky in the AM section come to think about it.

Also, some things are universal, but I like how Ceffy tailored it to the 5th gen crowd.


OAN:

I have some old MAF logs, let me take a quick look.



Ok I'm back ..

Purple line ... raw data is converted to %, in this it is 0 = 0% 5v = 100% (even though we know that's not the case, max is 4.77, which seen here is 94.5%
With all that said , mine fluctuates between 0.27 and 0.40 volts under heavy load/RPM (5K+). So, not much.




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I haven't done any recent testing with the complete 3.5" intake. So, i will do that and let you know, but for the most part, my AFR;s have been quite smooth.

Seen both with my dnyos and WB.


Black line = AFR, red = RPM

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Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-17-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:19 PM
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does anyone have a re-flash image, or copy of the nissan ecu maps for a 5th gen Vq30?

cheers
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by unkn0wn180 View Post
does anyone have a re-flash image, or copy of the nissan ecu maps for a 5th gen Vq30?

cheers
We wish.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:14 AM
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I'm interested in getting my 5.5 tuned is it necessary to have some kind of piggy back system to do so or can it be done with just a laptop while on the dyno...?????
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by platinummaxima View Post
I'm interested in getting my 5.5 tuned is it necessary to have some kind of piggy back system to do so or can it be done with just a laptop while on the dyno...?????
Read the thread, you can't just plug a laptop in and tune using MS Word.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:13 PM
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i have a stock 02 SE other than a stillen hi flow intake. more stuff on that way. should i look into getting one of these sooner rather than later? ie. before headers and exhaust?
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:43 PM
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Is there anybody who just tunes these 3.0 motors instead of buying anything of my own?
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fanlyan View Post
i have a stock 02 SE other than a stillen hi flow intake. more stuff on that way. should i look into getting one of these sooner rather than later? ie. before headers and exhaust?
Later is fine.
Originally Posted by twistedkreation View Post
Is there anybody who just tunes these 3.0 motors instead of buying anything of my own?
No.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:25 PM
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Thats what i was afraid of. Are these tuners pretty easy to learn or shoud i be worried ill ruin my car
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:32 PM
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Its relatively simple if you know whats going on behind the scenes. I wouldn't bother with it until you have most bolt ons.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:05 PM
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True ill be working on those slowly
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:36 PM
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On our cars the fuel/ignition maps are designed rather conservatively to balance performance, fuel mileage as well as knock suppression for those who use less than 92/91 octane fuel. So the timing curve isn’t aggressive and fuel maps are on the rich side. For Maximas with breathing mods (headers/exhaust mainly), the car’s factory ECU can readjust itself to optimize the Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) inside the engine at part throttle/cruise because it gets feedback from both the MAF sensor and O2 sensor. However, at WOT, the factory ECU goes into “open-loop” mode, where the fuel/timing is determined by a table using Airflow voltage (engine load) vs. RPM. Since the ECU is ignoring readings from the car’s O2 sensors, the AFR is not adjusted, and therefore not optimized.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX View Post
Read the thread, you can't just plug a laptop in and tune using MS Word.
Lmao i didnt think i needed to state the obvious, i know u cant use Word but point taken.. its a performance shop tht has a tuning software supposedly and told me it can be done with just tht(which is on his laptop) i've done some reading and i've found different opinions on this, some say u do, some say u dont so i was just looking for more feedback tht all..thanks
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:13 PM
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No, you can't just "tune" using a laptop and a laptop only.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:39 PM
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Any members from GTA with piggy back experience please pm me
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by george__ View Post
Any members from GTA with piggy back experience please pm me
Bro just get the haltech and patch harness from surratt goto voltagedrop.net
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:48 AM
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Is it possible that the obdII Bluetooth / phone app tuners will replace the simpler piggy backs or is the obd port limited to ignition advance only? I know it can't replace haltec, utec etc that's not what I'm talking about. I mean the controlers like AEM FIC and apexi. Would changes made through obd be persistent?
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FMSCMaX View Post
Is it possible that the obdII Bluetooth / phone app tuners will replace the simpler piggy backs or is the obd port limited to ignition advance only? I know it can't replace haltec, utec etc that's not what I'm talking about. I mean the controlers like AEM FIC and apexi. Would changes made through obd be persistent?
Not likely. The AFC's intercept the ECU signal and modify it but do so with only a few parameters which in turn affect other parameters (i.e. MAF v, IPW and timing relation) which sometimes can cause undesirable affects if not done "correctly". Whereas the other units you mention actually take control of FAR more inputs/outputs, so in short no.

1.) Market isn't there for say a BDGT or Cobb type tuner
2.) Phone apps/OBDII/Consult interface isn't advanced enough like the 6th gen in order to support an UpRev type of tuner.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:15 PM
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Is there any kind of auto tuning that can be made on these cars? For example with spacers , intake, exhaust, block off plate , ypipe.

I dont need anything but a small tune for everyday street use. Will a performance shop have what is needed to do this?
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:06 AM
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Explain auto tuning.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by maximasicilian123 View Post
Is there any kind of auto tuning that can be made on these cars? For example with spacers , intake, exhaust, block off plate , ypipe.

I dont need anything but a small tune for everyday street use. Will a performance shop have what is needed to do this?
A performance shop will only have a chassis dyno to perform the tuning with the equipment you give them.

You will need to bring:

1) some type of tuning program:
- SAFC2 ($200)
or
- e-Manage ultimate ($800)
or
- Haltech ($1500)

and

2) wideband
- AEM UEGO ($150)
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:59 PM
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By auto tune ... just something I can plug in and choose a simple street tune instead of playing with settings wich is way to advanced.

From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.

Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?

Last edited by maximasicilian123; 04-22-2014 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by maximasicilian123 View Post
By auto tune ... just something I can plug in and choose a simple street tune instead of playing with settings wich is way to advanced.

From what monce said that's to much for me to spend. Im looking to spend 300 for everything completely done with no chance of issues. I just figured a shop would have everything needed. I don't take my car to the track, I just want the power for going around cars or if someone acts up. Sometimes the lil kids in civics like to get burned.

Whats up with a chip? No good for the max?
That's how some of things work, like the EMU. Dial in an AFR, and it will do it's best to maintain it, with respect to throttle position and RPM, as well as timing, though timing is slightly dynamic and cahnges with RPM, throttle position, etc. Same goes for AFR, but AFR is a little simpler in that 100% throttle is usually the best way to dial it in.

The SAFC does the same, only thing is that you need to actually dial it in initially which takes a few street runs or some dyno time.

If that's the case, then "tuning" is not for you.

No "chips" for these cars.
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:47 PM
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uti

sorry for reviving an old thread but i noticed that there wasnt too much talk of uti software.
http://www.jeffsoftware.com/index.php

its nice because you can datalog the utec and wideband together at the same time.
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Old 05-18-2015, 10:00 PM
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ive been having a hard time installing my utec into my 350z. Ive been asking around all the z forums and decided to try this knowing that guys install utec on the max.

was wondering if anyone had advice for me. I bought a used utec a while back, just installed it today. The car starts and idles fine but the check engine, tcs off, and slip lights all come on and i can not rev past 2k rpm. I can communicate with it through hyperterminal. I tried a few different maps and even when i use the 0 map the problem remains. Any help would be appreciated. i set the base maps and parameters off the turboxs site. Should i be trying to get a better ground? im at a loss. thanks
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