billygeg

2001 maxima se 25th ann

Will a bad mass air flow sensor prevent the car from running?
I have replaced both crank sensors, cam sensor now Im wondering about the mass air sensor being that was one of the codes I got just before the car stopped running all together.
Thanks guys!

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Your thread title says starting. Then you say running. Which is it?

A bad MAF will not prevent a car from starting, but will prevent it from running/driving properly.

billygeg

I menat starting..Its not starting at all

02nismaxlegnd94

iTrader: (6)

not MAF will not prevent the car from starting. whats the issue and background leading up to this?

maxiiiboy

If you want help, you have to be more specific:

• Is the engine cranking at all? If so, does the engine start after several attempts, or does it fail to start even after multiple attempts, period?
• What is your battery voltage (with engine off)?
• When you turn the ignition key, does the starter click?
• Assuming the starter clicks and engages, does it crank slow or fast (spinning)?
• Have you checked your fuses?

billygeg

To answer your question is that the car turns fast and I have good battery voltage but it does not start or run..It attempts to start when I first try to start it but it doesnt and after maybe 10 seconds of cranking it doesnt even attempt to try and start..

A little history....
The car was running well till one day I got stuck..It would crank fast but would not turn over...It would try to start here and there while it was turning but would not turn over...It was brought to the mechanic and he said the crank sensor was bad under the crank pulley and as he was working on it the fuel pump dropped dead so he replaced both with parts from advance auto SMP parts I believe..

Since I got the car back it never ran right..I needed to keep my foot on the gas for a few seconds when I started it and it ran real bad till it warmed up...Once it warmed up it ran much better but you can still feel a misfire, It was also eating gas like mad and blowing black smoke.

I didnt bring it back to him because I am really frustrated and no one really seems to know what the hell they are doing with these cars!

The other day I realized the cam shaft sensor was lose probably from the mechanic working on it and forgetting to tighten it! So I pulled it out and saw little cracks on it near the core..
I tested it for ohms and it read fine but I figured I might as well replace it just in case.. I bought a new one from advance auto again which was again a SMP part..Before I put it in I started the car while I still had the old one in and it started..It ran like crap but it started.

so I shut it down and put the new one in..I tried to start it again and all it did was turn but did not start..I even put the old one back in figuring maybe I had a bad part but even with the old one that it started with earlier it still did not start so I put the new one back in..

I was getting a code the whole time for the crank sensor so I went and rechecked the ohms on the crank sensor the mechanic put in and it was fine..I even pulled the 2nd crank sensor out but when I tested it I only got 3.3 or so volts to the computer when the FSM states Im supposed to have 5 so I went and bought a new one of those and put it in..

So now I have 2 brand new crank sensors and a camshaft sensor and the car is still not running! I tested all the connections for voltage and even tested continuity from the from the computer harness to the sensors and all checked out..

The reason I asked about the Mass Air is because the last time it did run I pulled a mass air code...

I pulled the plugs tonight and they are black as coal! Tomorrow I am going to clean them and check for spark...Being black like that makes me believe I am not getting proper spark if any


The question I have for you guys now is..with testing the coils for ohms..The FSM says in checking the coils if you get ANY ohms at all between pins 2-3 the coil is ok..How accurate is that? because I read on engine codes .com that even if the coil reads good when its out of the car it can still be going bad and fail under certain temperature conditions and loads...

I have 2 sets of coils sitting in front of me now..The OEM used set I pulled from the car and a brand new aftermarket set..The ohms on the OEM set are 1500+...The ohms on the new aftermarkets are 825-860... Do you guys know what the deal is with these coils? Is the FSM correct or can the coils still read good when they are actually bad?

george__

iTrader: (1)

Battery
Poor ground cables

maxiiiboy

Using aftermarket coils is a bad idea - well documented on this forum. Use OEM/Hitachi coils only. Static measurement (resistance) does not tell you anything about how the coil works - it's a transistor circuit. The same for camshaft/crankshaft sensors.

george__

iTrader: (1)

+1 except Hitachi is aftermarket but they actually work

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

The car will start and run with out a maf, it will just be completely undriveable. If you were having a loss of power or sputtering then look at the maf.

Stick with your OEM coils, just replace them as they go bad. You have a rich condition for your plugs to be black. Replace them as they are cheap then Clean grounds and add a few grounds as this sounds like a unstable grounding issue more than anything.

billygeg

Grounds on the top of the timing chain cover and the alternator were all cleaned and the battery is good..

billygeg

Im only going by how to test them direct from the FSM..isnt there any way to tell if they are bad? The only way I was told was to test the ohms and pull one off at a time while the car is running to see if the car runs any worse..At this point I have the option to do that as the car isnt running..The only other option is to test them in another fashion as I do not want to go out and spend $700 on coils that might not be the problem...

The car at this point has 108,000 miles on it with the original coils from NIssan..
While the car was running a week ago, I did pull the connection off each coil one at a time while it was running and each one made the car run worse so my though is that they are good but it seems like no one can say for sure...

Anyone have a 100% direct positive answer on how to test these to see if they are good or if that pull one at a time method is effective to tell if the coil is good?

I read online one engine codes.com that even so they may test good out of the car they can still be failing and fail under certain temps and load conditions...
Ive heard all different stories

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

Have you inspected or checked any fuses? Try checking the engine control fuse too this will prevent it from starting but will still crank strong.

billygeg

Everything is good..I even checked the engine control relay..I pulled it out of the car, put 12 volts to is coil, It clicked and I got continuity to both sets of contacts..

I just cleaned the front 3 sparks plugs put 2 back in and left one out grounded to the chassis..As Im working alone I had to mount my cell phone with the video camera recording the plug while I tried to start it...It tried to turn over a few times and I did see spark in the video

I installed the last plug and tried again.. It tried to start a few times but didnt then it stopped trying to start..Im going to pull the last 3 plugs out in the back and clean them to see if that does any good but its sooooooo damn cold out there!

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

Is this engine control relay under the hood? I was thinking Ignition Relay that is located under the dash on the back side of the fuse panel. This relay is energized by the ignition switch and switches power to fuses that are needed for starting.

The relay is a dual pole relay and one of the pole powers fuses 25, 26, 28, 29, 30 and 31. The fuel pump is on this half of the relay. If the windshield wipers and turn signals work, this half of the relay is working.

The other pole sends power to fuses 8, 9, 10 and 11. If the tail lights work, then this half of the relay is working.

If neither side of the relay has power, then it could be the relay energizing coil is bad OR the ignition switch is not sending power to energize the relay.

But if the engine is trying to start, this relay is probably OK.

billygeg

Yes I have power to everything..I was so damn tired of all the BS not knowing if the coils or plugs were firing that I pulled every coil pack and plug out of the motor...I connected every spark plug to ground and connected them into the coil packs..I had my girlfriend turn the motor a few times and I was getting spark to each plug... I think that (HOPEFULLY) illiminates the coils! You had to see it! It looked like some sort of science project!

I also seen a mist coming from each cylinder which was the gas so I know Im getting gas..I put the front three in and came inside to warm up a bit..Im going outside to put the back 3 coils back in to see if it will start..Wiush me luck because at this point if it doesnt start I have no idea!

billygeg

Well car has spark and gas and its still not starting..Im just about ready to give up! I am really starting to HATE this car..It has given me nothing but trouble..If it was someone else they probably would have junked this thing a while ago! If I wasnt so think headed I would have done the same...

I know you guys love nissan and I'm sorry but I gotta tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that this car is the worst car that I have ever bought! I will never buy another Nissan ever again...

sorry but I am really annoyed and pissed right now..2 crank shaft sensors, camshaft sensor, crank pulley, alternator 2x, starter, Mass air sensor, TPS, IAC valve and computer because IAC blew it, Fuel Pump, radiator, $200 power steering hose, and Im sure there is more that I cant remember right now..I bought this car with 65,000 miles in 04 and drove it 46,000 miles so far with all of this trouble..

I cant figure it out so I think its about to become either someone elses headache or maybe I will just delight in having it crushed and buried where it belongs before it drives someone else nuts!'

I have never seen a car like this in my life Honestly and I hope I never do again!

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

PLUGS, PLUGS, PLUGS, PLUGS, Change the plugs. You said you pulled them and they were black like they had been running rich, they are most likely fouled. As silly as it sounds i had my car not start because of +3 fouled, you will have spark but the car will not start because the plugs are so badly fouled. It is most likely your plugs. Do not over look them. Like i said they are cheap, NGK only. BKR5EGP-Part # 7090, Autozone, now, go get them. $3.29 it like $20 for all 6. Simple maintenance.

Check your CKPS on the transmission make sure its on there nice and snug, do not over torque it same with the CPS. These cars are very simple in actuality only 2 sensors will stop them from starting, the CKPS, cam position. 2 will stop them from being driveable, Knock sensor and MAF, everything else is a formality. 5th gens have a habit of grounds going bad so check and double check them clean them make sure they are pristine. Ebay a grounding kit and add grounds, it will help.

If im reading this correctly then your problem is just you are not taking proper car of the car not that its a bad car. More times than i can count on this forum the cause of the issue is the owner not knowing how to maintain the car more than the car being bad. But anyway get the car started then fix the reason why the plugs got fouled in the first place.

billygeg

I just put these plugs in the car about a 3 months ago..They were NGK platinum G power plugs..Everyone says to go with the regular NGK Platinum that the car came with from factory but they were like $10 each so I cheaped out a bit..

When I recently pulled them they were black but I cleaned and gapped them before putting them back in..The car wsa never abused..If anything it has abused me...I did whatever I had to do to keep the car in good running condition..

You cant blame it on a person if they cannot figure out what is wrong with a car when mechanics out there cant even seem to figure it out..The dealers are theives so you cant blame anyone for not wanting to go there! So how do you get this car fixed?

I went to the dealer and wasted $130 to have the car put on the computer to figure out the issue...Their advice was to have them put in 6 coils which cost $700 but with installation $1200! A job that can be done by me in 20-30 minutes,They wanted $500 labor! No you dont have to pull off the plenum..The coils are easy to get to on my year..

Now if that didnt clear up the issue they would move onto the crankshaft sensor another $500...If that didnt fix it then we would move on to the computer for $1200...

What kind of people are these! They certainly cant be trusted and on top of that do not seem to know what they are doing unless thats their game..either way you cant blame anyone for not wanting to deal with people who cant be trusted...

So unless you are $9000 to fix a car thats not worth near that much you find yourself on here hoping to get the answers to do it yourslef or even educate a mechanic who is willing to try and fix it..

You mentioned the grounds..Someone emailed me about that...The grounds on the top of the timing chain cover are all clean and good I recently cleaned them..I also cleaned the little ground right by the Altermnator..Someone told me about grounding the bell housing of the tranny to negative of the battery..What is that all about?

Im chasing all different causes here but the car was running decent till the mechanic changed my crankshaft pulley and sensor..Since then its never run the same..Just seems like to much of a coincidence..He put in a advance auto crank sensor..everyone says with these cars you have to go OEM so Im wondering if its that sensor..I dont mind spending the money on something that will fix the problem but I very much dislike spending money on something that isnt the problem..Its just counter productive and a waste of time....

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

How do you fix the car you ask:

So have you changed the plugs? I don't care how old they are have you changed the plugs? Honestly have you change the plugs? I have had plugs foul on me in 3 months and the car was not even driven 50miles car had fuel and spark and would not start because of bad plugs exact same conditions you are describing. So have you changed the plugs? The NGK G-powers are the part number i gave you, they are perfectly fine, i run them in both my project car and my BMW because i was not going to spend $10-20 a plug. $3.29, they work great. So have you changed them?

You have tested for spark and you are getting spark right when the plugs is out of the car and next to a grounded area of the car. And you are sure that there is fuel in the cylinders, that your plugs are wet with fuel not oil? Unless the car has gone catastrophically wrong which in your case you would be the first, either lost compression in multiple cylinders, broken rods or something like that its the quality of the fuel or spark. Multiple fuel injectors do not fail all at once unless you used some really, i mean, REALLY sh1tty gas. But multiple plugs often and WILL foul due to bad combustion chamber conditions ie running rich and being covered in soot&carbon deposits. What you have is badly fouled plugs.

I'm no professional mechanic, i am 25K into a project car, gone through 3 motors and have had to learn everything pretty much the hard way. If you dont want help and just bash the car then be my guest and i will stop trying to help you. I'm trying to help you get your car running because i have made the mistake of overlooking the plugs because i thought they were too new to be bad. Me, personally i went through this. Its even documented on this site that i went through it. Change them and get the car running then lets find out WHY they fouled so quickly. We will not know until the car actually runs. Its either you have a fueling issues which i doubt or wrong plugs were installed, too cold of a spark plug so don't throw away your old plugs give me the part number to them. VQ30s like a heat range between 5-6, BKR5Es for normal duty for somebody who drives hard/high horsepower cars the colder BKR6Es will give them a healthier spark.

Up to you, if you keep arguing I will stop trying to help you especially since i can see the issue so clearly its not even funny.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

.

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billygeg

Not arguing just very frustrated..I havent changed the plugs but I will and see what happens...When I had all 6 plugs out of the car you can actually see a mist of gas coming from the cylinders so Im 99% positive there is gas.. I could smell is too so I made sure my girl stopped cranking because I didnt want the spark to possibly ignite a fireball in my face...

If the plugs were getting spark does that absolutely mean that the coils are good? Ive heard all different stories from people that yes they are good as long as they spark and others that say no they could be giving off a weak spark..

Like I said Im not trying to argue or bash the car but its very frustrating when you try and do the right thing to get the car fixed but the right thing appears to be a mystery to everyone...Thanks for the help...

nestorlugo

iTrader: (11)

I also read about the coils failing under load but that shouldn't prevent the car from starting i don't think.Cuz you getting spark.

Try swapping the oem spare coils you have when you change the plugs and skip the headache with advance parts and put your original ckps back on, perhaps buy a new one but make sure it's a Mitsubishi or Hitachi brand.

Try to get a refund for those sensors and get a maf from courtesyparts.com it's only $77

I would also check the fuel pressure since the fuel pump swap to me seems suspect.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Its ok, ive been in this situation. I have been through this, coils fail one by one at random but your car will start just fine with a weak coil so just getting spark does not indicate a good coil. Your car will start with up to 3 maybe 4 weak coils, it would run rough but they would be able to start and drive. And the weak coil would only show itself when the motor is under load ie driving not at idle or during start up, usually weak coil symptoms are people driving in 3rd or 4th gear get vibrations and thing its an axle or badly out of balance wheel. Even though it is possible for 2 or more coils to fail at once the possibilities of that let alone 3 of them we are talking about winning the lottery odds here, i have never heard or seen it, you MIGHT have a weak coil in there somewhere but its not your immediate problem.

Like i have told you again and again STOP OVERLOOKING THE SPARK PLUGS. The coils are only 1/2 of the equation. The other half is the spark plugs, Spark plugs fail and foul very VERY often it is not uncommon for them to foul after 3 months especially running in a rich condition. They may produce a spark but the spark is not strong enough to support combustion. Im telling you the problem and you keep ignoring what im saying. I have been through this before. Stop overlooking the plugs because they are 3 months old, once they see fuel the have the possibility of being fouled especially in the condition you described them in. I have lived through this so please just do what im telling you, because right now your car sounds similar to this when it you try to start it:



That's my car. tested for fuel and spark and had both but no start. And here start at post 143:

https://maxima.org/forums/supercharg...d-3-0-a-4.html

Those are some pretty big brains on the org that did not figure out the problem for about 3 months, it wasn't until post #252 on page 6 where we finally found the problem. Fouled plugs. Im telling you, your plugs are fouled, i've lived it. You have fuel and your getting spark but the car will not start. A fouled plug will spark when you test it but it will not produce a strong enough spark to support combustion. Thats why you have to change them. $20 seriously, If you cant afford that you might want to give up on driving. I really am not going to repeat this again.

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I doubt the sensors are the problem in all honesty. I have an Autozone CKPS, a ebay cam position sensor and knock sensor, a Advanced auto crank ref and they are all working with no issues.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Check for spark, fuel and air!

billygeg

I gotta give credit when credit is due it was the plugs! Old plugs are the same as the new I put in NGK G power model BKR5EGP 7090...Car is now running..It started right up..Its still running crappy and I have to keep my foot on the gas to keep in running for a few seconds after start up...The Traction control and slip lights are on as usual...
I did not change the coil packs yet..I left the old OEM ones in..If it didnt start I would have put the new aftermarkets in but wanted to know for sure if it was the plugs or coils..

Ive heard that these cars have the Traction control light and slip along with abs lights come on when the coils are bad or going bad..Think thats the issue?

nestorlugo

iTrader: (11)

:crusher2:

billygeg

I disconnected the battery after I started it for about 2 hours..I went out and started it and the engine light came on along with the slip, TSC, and abs lights..Car is missing so I pulled a few coil pack connectors off one at a time..Five of them made a slight difference but not much of a difference and one in the center back which I think is cylinder 3 didnt make a noticable difference...Tomorrow Im going to swap out the 6 coils with the aftermarket coils and see what happens..Im starting to think that its the coils all along...

If the car is misfiring will it make the car run rich like it is? Even so Im starting to lean toward the coils Im still thinking its a big coincidence that this car was running well prior to going to the mechanic with him changing that crank sensor and pully

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

Bad coils/misfires could be the cause of running rich/lean and possibly fouling your plugs. Your ecu is probably compensating by adjusting the timing and adding more or less fuel to compensate.

billygeg

I put the aftermarket coils in today and it ran no different and after it warmed up a bit it stalled..I restarted it and it would not continue to run unless I pressed the gas..This is the same thing it did prior to changing the plugs...Any thoughts?

ac max 92

iTrader: (13)

Have you done a tune beyond changing just the plugs? Try doing a simple tune up ie. Change the fuel filter, air filter and the spark plug wires and see how it runs then.

billygeg

ok after the car stalled earlier I pulled all these codes with my actron OBDII scanner
P1335
P1336
PO100
P1335 repeated
P1336 repeated
P1464

I cleared the codes and unplugged the battery for about 2 hours...I started the car and ran as if it was misfiring but it idled for about 25 minutes without stalling..I shut it off and scanned codes again and I pulled codes

PO100 mass air
P1335 crank sensor

I then cleared the codes, Started the car and it didnt want to keep running without me holding the gas down...

This is insane! Any thoughts?

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

sounds like the iacv isn't working and a misfire issue

billygeg

bump bump

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

Ok great you got the car started. Good now we can find out what is causing it to foul the plugs. It will not run with out your foot on the gas sounds like a IACV/TPS problem. If it is throwing a Crank sensor code then i would change that immediately go get it swapped out for another one under warranty. Clean your throttle body, get rid of all the gunk that is around it. It should help smooth out your idle. Replace the IACV while you have the throttle body off the car and that should take care of everything idle related.

For the MAF, i would try cleaning it first but be VERY VERY careful as it is a very sensitive component. If that does not fix it then the sensor itself is bad so you will have to change it. Autozone one or check around the forums or JY for somebody selling one.

billygeg

I have the car going to a mechanic thursday if this damn weather allows it! I wish I could have figured it out on my own with the help of you guys but I just dont have the time and the weather has been awful here in the Northeast making working on the car in my driveway nearly impossible.

Its going to be towed there because its no longer running. After I got it started I replaced the coil packs with the new aftermarkets..I started it and about 3-5 seconds later the car just stopped running..RPMs just dropped no matter how hard I pressed the gas.. It did this about 10 times..

Naturally as it was not doing this before I figured maybe its the crappy aftermarket coils so for the tenth time I swapped the coils back to the original OEM coils..Car is still doing the same thing...I start it, It runs for 3-5 seconds then just dies..

I have a funny feeling it has to do with this crank pulley the mechanic worked on months ago when I had it towed to the mechanic..He said the keyway was pretty messed up as the crank pulley was falling off the car when it was towed there..How that is possible without losing the bolt is beyond me but if that is the case and it did mess up the keyway, Im wondering if this crank pulley has spun on the crankshaft to the wrong position...

The car is just stopping..I heard somewhere that the computer will shut the car down if there is something vitally wrong to prevent motor damage..I think that might be whats going on here now...

Any thoughts?

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

I actually suspect a vac leaks. Thats what i would check for. Check all lines leading to the Intake manifold make sure everything is on nice and tight. I've done that before aswell forget to put on my vac lines lol. Have somebody start the car and listen for any hissing or whooshing noises. If you hear them then its definitely a vac leak. A vac leak can trip a MAF or O2 sensor code.

The ECU does have a safe mode and will kill the engine, thats if a critical sensor is not functioning properly. The most important sensors on these cars are: Crank position sensor, Cam position sensor, Knock sensor, and Mass Airflow sensor, O2 sensors. All other sensor are semi-important but you can unplug them and drive the car around with out noticing much of a difference.

You can count out the knock sensor as it will effect power output, the car will start and idle fine without the mass airflow sensor but will die as soon as you touch the accelerator. The Crank and cam are vital. So a weak crank sensor signal could be the cause of your problems. Luckily the are very easy to replace as you know. Replace the crank position sensors Harness as it may be bad. If that does not fix the problem then replace the sensor with an OEM Nissan sensor.

Some cars are sensitive to sensors some cars are not. I have been getting away with Ebay and Amazon sensors with out issue others report otherwise, you might fall in the expensive otherwise group.