Great post. Let the engineers and bean counters worry about what configuration to generate the power. And speed freak owners worry about aftermarket speed support, which Dave B summarized very nicely. I think the speed/aftermarket modding argument for the L67 powered cars is so one-sided of an advantage in the same manner the style/panache argument is so one-sided toward Maxima's advantage.

One thing to note, Nissan has over the years (let's pick 1997 to now) brought power levels of the VQ motor from 190 to 300 hp (300 in the 350Z 35th anniversary) without resorting to boost, crazy rpms, or massive displacement increases. Meanwhile, GM since 1997 has taken L67 horsepower from 240 to 260 despite having a boosted platform. There are many reasons for the aforementioned trends, but all I would say is Nissan is pouring gobs of development dollars to keep that VQ at the top of its game. This is because 190 -> 300 hp while staying NA and enhancing OEM standards of drivability is tough to pull off (as the aftermarket industry knows, NA power increases dip very quickly in drivability)! The VQ can challenge any NA V6 and it does a credible job against stock and even slightly modded blown V6s.

 

I have a 98 5spd with I/Y/E, JWT ecu/VI, pulley, fidanza flywheel. while my buddy's 01 GTP has intake, 3.4 in pulley (10-11lbs), and my other buddy with a stock 02 6 spd. We raced numerous of times and all three of us are dead even.
Heres how it typically goes:
Between the GTP and I, we would be even off the line until he shifts into 2nd (before I do) so for that 1500rpm (my 7000 redline) I pull half a car to 3/4 car, then I shift and he makes it back by the time I hit third from there we seat side by side all the way to 100mph. Between the 02 6 spd and us we would get him outta of the hole cause most of the time he spunt thru 1st, we would pull almost 2 cars on him, but as soon as he shift into 2nd(HLSD), he makes up a full car length and continues to pull, by that time I believe he is in third and we are side by side. Each car pulls on the other car at different points in the race due to our powerband differences. Ultimately at this point in time we are all evenly match.
The GTP is a car that would be receive great benefit from basic mod compare to NA maximas. It wouldn't take much mods for them to beat a maxima 5 or 6 spd and they a lot more toys than even a 4 gen maxima, I know for a fact that if my buddy gets a ecu (which I believe different shift points), downpipe and exhaust, he would certainy leave me in the dust. Plus to me even though they are the same class of cars, it really isn't a fair comparison with our vq motor verse their's since its NA vs. Boost. A simple change of exhaust( or any basic mods) on a boosted car would result in greater horsepower gains compare to NA car. It really comparing apples to oranges...

 

97 GTP stock gears will bring it to these MPH. I don't think they changed final drives (2.93:1) within these years

1st@6,000rpms=54mph (8.9mph/1,000rpms)
2nd@6,000rpms=100mph (16.6mph/1,000rpms)
3rd@4,850rpms=127mph (electronically limited, 26.1mph/1,000rpms)
4th@3,450rpms=127mph (electroincall limited, 36.7mph/1,000rpms)

If you shift the Maxipad after the GTP does its 1-2shift, lets say @55mph, you'd be at roughly 9,400rpms and seeing your pistons shooting out of your engine.

 

100mph in 2nd gear?!?!?!?! That's good for a high hp, but doesn't seem like the best gearing otherwise. Wow, what a huge 2nd gear!

 

I don't know how you calculating those numbers but I think they are off. This coming from a actually GTP owner: 1st shifts around 40-45mph, 2nd shifts @ 90-94mph, he is barely into 3 when he hits 100mph. I maybe a little exaggerated on me shifting 1000-1500 rpm later than him but I know I do shift after he does. So while he shift first into 1st gear, he stay longer in second while I have to shift into 2nd and 3rd before we hit 100 mph.

 

I took those #'s out of Car and Driver's test 8/96 on a 1997 GTP. Those gearing #'s are correct, as they list similar #'s for the Buick GS (same car) and list 50-52mph top of 1st gear on L36 powered FWD W-body cars (which have shorter final drive ratio's but same gear ratios). IIRC, my test drive of the GTP Comp G with the shorter final drive, the top of first gear landed me about 48mph. These cars have tall ratio's, but they also have a bigger ratio spread than the Nissan 5speed despite having less gears.

Still, if your friends GTP shifts at 45mph 1-2shift, and you shift at lets say 46mph, that would bring you to 7866rpms (assuming 1st gear is 17.1mph/1,000rpms, which is close) Top of 1st gear @7,000rpms should bring you to 40.9mph (41mph) which means you would have shifted before the GTP if you two are neck-to-neck. The only way for the GTP to shift sooner than you (about 1,000rpms before you do) would mean that the GTP would be well ahead of you.

 

Personally, i think your little calculations are wrong,how about this, you can spend all the time you want playing with your calculations but i know for a fact, that the car shifts at around these points, the car Shifts at 5600 RPM, and leaves first gear at about 48 WOT it shifts out of second at around 85 Mph, once again at 5600, so it is not as dramatic as Jcy states, he was a littleoff on the scond gear, and 3 mph on first.

 

Okay, regardless if the gtp or I shift first, it is still a dead heat by the time we hit 100mph. I don't care who shifts first because it really isn't all that important, however, you calculating the gtp getting to those speeds are acheived only when the gtp is shifting at redline in every gear which u can accomplish with the comptech (with the manual pedal shifter) but not acheived in the regular auto becuase they shift out of each gear around 5600rpm *(where the yellow on the tach is)*. That is where the ecu comes into play for them : here is http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/pro...dhp_pcm_10.htm the link to show that they do shift early

 

If I'm wrong, can you correct me? I stated where I got the GTP calculations from (Car and Driver 8/96) and personally I believe those because of the videos of guys on www.gp-owners.com post of acceleration runs showing the tach/speedo.

Ok according to you the GTP shifts out of first at about 48mph, which would mean that the Maxima shifted its 1-2shift first. So you are agreeing with me? 48mph@5,600rpms=8.57mph/1,000rpms which in turn equals 51.6mph@6,000rpms. So how is that much different than what I quoted above? You do know that the top of 1st gear on a 4th gen is roughly 37mph right? 85mph on the 2nd shift on the GTP? According to the GTP owner above, it shifts at about 90-94mph@5,600rpms, which in turn is 16.1mph/1,000rpms which would put it at around 100mph@6,000rpm. How is that drastically different than the 16.Xmph/1,000rpms from the above reply?

 

Whats the deal with that 'performance' shift botton? Yes, thats great that you are dead heat with the GTP, I just thought it was rather strange that the GTP shifted sooner than you, especially considering how short our 1st gear is compared to the GTP's tall 1st gear ratio.

 

the GTP is shifting at 5600 rpm even with the performance shift button.

 

So its similar to the 3rd generation POWER mode which uses a different shift mapping at part-throttle?

 

I drove a GTP with Flowmasters, they can haul ****. Nice leather seats too.

 

Tire diameter = mph x gear ratio x 336
Rpm
Gear ratio = rpm x tire diameter
Mph x 336
Mph = rpm x tire diameter
Gear ratio x 336
Rpm = mph x gear ratio x 336
Tire diameter

Gear ratios (:1):
First: 2.92
Second: 1.57
Third: 1.00
Fourth: 0.71
Reverse: 2.39
Final drive ratio: 3800: 3.05:1 (Grand Prix, GT) 3800 SC: 2.93:1 (GTP) 3800 SC: 3.29:1 (GTP with Comp G Package)

Not sure on the tire sizes.

 

1997-2003 Gt/gtp=225/60R16
2004+GTP/Comp G= 225/55R17

 

I have 4 friends that all have modded GTP's. I've beat all of them. They beat me in the 60 foot, but by the end of the 1/4 i usually have them by a car or more! As far as the GTP overall build. IMO there not that good, All of my friends had to replace there trannys b4 50K miles. One of my friends motor even blew b4 80k miles. By the way the top speed on a gtp is 110mph, IF you keep it in drive. If it's in 3rd it is capable of hitting 130+mph depending on mods. My friend had his to 162mph according to his heads up display.

 

You beat them all with your 5th gen or 4th gen? A GTP with the stock PCM has a electric limiter at 128MPH

 

I have many things to address since I have ran two flavors of this motor stock. Please keep in mind that I am talking about strictly stock 1999 Pontiac GTP with 75k miles and a stock 2004 Impala SS.

I ran the Pontiac GTP with my boy's 04 Alti 5-spd stock (Before I got my Max) and the Pontiac GTP was left in the dust, He was beat by at least three cars before I just shut down. If you have problems believing this, I will arrange another race and tape it although with all the **** hes talked about the VQ series motors, I doubt he will give in to letting me tape his car get destroyed... again...

I ran the 2004 Impala SS with my 1997 Maxima with CAI and no cat before i sold it... I took it by about a car. (then again this guy has 10K worth of stereo in his car so its heavy). The Maxima was 5-spd.

THe Pontiac GTP and Impala SS CAN be made fast and there is no denying that. Stock, however I don't think the GTP has it's claimed 280lb/ft torque, or becuase it is diabolically heavy at over 3500lbs, the high amount of tq gets cancelled out by the weight... I quickly scanned the internet for 1/4 mile times on these cars and they are mostly in the 15.0 with a few reporting 14.9 and 15.2... Not impressive at all for a supercharged 3.8L V6.

I am not trying to knock the American built cars, but most of what FOrd and GM deliver for the mainstream market is garbage. GM loads their cars with plastic and their generic style radios that can be found in every single car they build from the Cavalier all the way up to the C5 Corvette (look it up if in doubt)... They are now beginning to change alot of that with the Cobalt, GTO, C6 Corvette... But the cheap built is still there. The pontiac Comp-g offering is priced close to 28k (correct me if im wrong)... A new maxima, accord or used acura TL/CL can be had for about that much... what choice will you make...

 

Have you scanned www.gp-owners.com? They have stock times running as low as 14.1@95mph in extremely good conditions. They mainly run 14.6.-14.6, just like a 2k2-2k3 Maxima automatic. The Hydramatic 4T65E is rated at 280TQ capacity, hence the reason why the L67 is rated at 280TQ (dyno's suggest it actually makes more, but given the fact that the TQ peaks at a low rpm, its hard to tell because at low rpms, you don't have alot of parasetic losses)

What does interior quality have anything to do with a 1/4mile race? Isn't this what this thread was mainly about in the first place?

 

I've beat 2 with the 4th gen. He ran 15.3 i went 15.0. His was a daytona GTP coupe w/ intake. The other was from a light, he has a 4 door with intake and cat back. The other 2 both have intake full exhaust smaller pulley, and one of them has a cam.

 

I know the site may have people running a 14.1 stock, but I don't believe it. A stock GTP is not running the times of the older M3, 540, or GS430. That's just like reading the Ford Mustang Magazines where they get ridiculous times nobody else seems to be able to duplicate. I actually know Mustang owners who claim their car is "stock" because they have done nothing to the engine. Never mind the headers, exhaust, chip, and whatever else...the engine is stock so they claim a stock car. Any GTP doing a 14.1 is not stock hp. 14.6, that I can believe.

 

I've got an opinion about much of what was stated in this thread, some of them contradicting.

If VeeTec says he ran a 14.3 and could have run a 14.1 in his stock GTP I believe him, without a doubt for a second. I also believe that there are some other GTPs which have run in that neighborhood stock.

That said, I've been drag racing for a few years, I've got close to 300 1/4 mile passes under my belt, and have probably 40 trips to the track over the last 3 years. I have NEVER seen a stock GTP run anywhere close to what VeeTec or some of the other super quick GTP owners have run. Ever. I've watched stock GTPs run 15.2 @89 all day long, and yes they are GTPs, there is a nice little roots blower sitting right there in plain view when they pop their hood. I was even at byron dragway about two years ago when there was a GP meet going on, and none of the stock ones there were even close to the times of VeeTec or others, and byron is one of the quickest tracks in the country. There was one in the 11s, a bunch in the 12s and 13s, but not too many low 14 second cars. They seemed to either run high 14s or low 15s, or be running mid 13s or better.

So while I have no doubt that a stock GTP can run times much quicker than I have seen, it is not something that the average driver seems to be able to do.

And for the record there is a local Grand Prix GT owner who has a custom turbo setup and has run a best of 11.52 @ 117mph on a very simple setup, T04e turbo (I've never asked him the specs of it), beefed trans, cams and rockers (and exhaust, supporting turbo mods etc). He put down 417whp and 399tq on 17psi, and I believe the 1/4 mile pass was done on 15psi. I will check back and update this post if necessary because I am going by memory on the PSI levels, I asked him once but I can't get on that message board to see his reply right now. The 1/4 mile time and HP #s I am sure of however.

 

screw the supercharger even a 25psi turbo would be better

 

For about 1 second or 2 until he blew his engine into annihilation.

 

People are putting video's and time slips of stock #'s, isn't that enough proof? What about Veetecs time of about 14.3 stock? Is he full of B.S. also? I'm not saying that 14.1 is what they all run, but it has been done and is quite rare for a stocker.

 

I would assume the drastic difference in times would be the same reason why 2k2 Auto's run anywhere from 14.4-15.5@89-95mph, or why you can run 13.6XX@10X.XXmph while someone with similar mods will only run 14.XXX@99.XXmph

Up here at Thunder Valley Race Way, there are only 2 stock GTPs and they both ran consistant 14.9@90mph, but altitude isn't the best, neither was the weather. The one modded one ran 14.2@95mph, but IIRC he had a 3.4 pulley, DHP, 3" downpipe, CAI

 

I'm sure there are videos and timeslips of GTP's running 14.1's, but that doesn't mean they are stock. They may claim it, and it's hard to tell by looking at a video. I just don't believe that a completely stock GTP can run a 14.1. Again, that is keeping up with a 2001 540 6-speed, a 99 M3, or a 99 S4. Something was modified somewhere to get that time.

 

14.1 with a stock GTP, no way. But 14.57 is possible with only minor tweaks (removed traction control, upped tire pressure). And for 500 bucks you hit 14 sec or high 13.

Completly stock GTP are like 14..7-14.8 on the quarter mile.

 

my dads ran a 14.9 and it was completly stock.i dont think there are any that could hit 14.1 stock.

 

I don't understand what this forum is about
Bottom line is GTP is faster than Maxima stock vs. stock

One is supercharged and the other is not. You'll probably be able to make the maxima faster, but the GTP will take less money cause it comes with the supercharger. The maxima, however, is a better car being Japanese

 

I think the Maxima is a better car, but more because of the Japanese philosophy. Anytime they want to, GM can build just as quality a car. The problem is, they skip on their quality control and cut corners because they know the typical domestic buyer overlooks it. In the 90's when the Japanese started to take their market share, the domestics did just enough to retain some share. If these cars were sold overseas, their sales would be horrific and force GM to build the cars right. That's probably the biggest factor in why the Japanese put more quality control, along with their mentality in life.

Also, a 4th gen Max should be fairly even with a GTP in 5-speed mode. A 5.5 gen auto might nose it out, but the 6 speed 5.5 gen will take it. It won't always be 100% of the case, because there are some GTP's that run as fast as a 14.6 stock, while others are running a 15.0 just like there are 4th gen Max's hitting 14.7-15.1 with a manual. There have been several 5.5gen manuals getting into the 14.3 range stock. Any type of highway roll though, and either a 4th gen or 5.5 gen will take out the GTP easily stock for stock.

 

Yes but keep in mind these guys running 15.2 @ 90mph are running at the exact same track, on the same days, that I'm running 13.5s and 13.6s at over 100mph... so it's not as if the track is slow that day because of the weather coniditons or anything like that. I think it has much more to do with the driver itself, or perhaps inconsistencies in the vehicle, than anything else. I heard a story once about a guy who was running really bad times in his new GTP, so he purchased another stock blower off ebay and removed his old one, and was immediately faster. The original eaton blower which came on his car was poorly cast. Perhaps that is a common problem for them and explains why some can trap 96 stock and some can't even trap 90 stock.

But to those that say that they "can't" run 14.3, you are in denial. VeeTec, among others, DID it. He didn't run with a couple mods, he didn't fudge his times, he didn't do any of those things. He is a loyal nissan enthusiast and a staple member of this board, in addition to being a police officer. He is every bit as honest as I, or Dave B, or MikeD any of the other people who routinely run at the track and report our findings without bias or prejudice. If the man said he ran 14.3 in a stock GTP, he ran 14.3 in a stock GTP, end of story. You guys have no idea how many times I have been told "there's no way you can run 13.4 in a bolt on maxima." Well about 10 different timeslips say there is a way, just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it can't be done. Because it has been done.

 

10 char

 

this guy is a moran A gtp is a piece of crap they dont go near that fast even though they make power they still weight 4000 pounds, that guy is talking out of his as$

 

you are an idiot gtp's suck I would take a maxima over a Gtpoop any day

 

Wow your first two post and you're trying to start a flame war. No ones going to take you seriously because

A: Your first post was a flame towards another Member
B: Your profile says you drive a 17 second Bimmer

It doesn't matter if you think a 3,400lbs GTP sucks, its still a quick car.

 

I corrected it for ya

 

Well thats your opinion. But I think a BMW 318 is a piece of crap, why didnt you buy a real BMW instead of that 17 second 4-banger.

Why does everyone think GTP's dont run 14's stock? I have herd numbers from 14.1-15.3 bone stock stock for a GTP. Granted the ones that run low 14's have very good drivers and the track conditions must have been perfect and that ones that ran 15's probably didnt know how to drive there car yet. And a Grand Prix isnt that heavy its only about 3400 pounds.

 

You spelled the word "moron" wrong guy... and they weigh 3400ish.

 

Quoted from Nealloc: I heard a story once about a guy who was running really bad times in his new GTP, so he purchased another stock blower off ebay and removed his old one, and was immediately faster. The original eaton blower which came on his car was poorly cast. Perhaps that is a common problem for them and explains why some can trap 96 stock and some can't even trap 90 stock.

This statement nails the reasons why some GTP's are faster than others.I hate to say this about american cars because I loves Mustangs but I have owned and bracket raced 3 GTs and not a one of them ran exactly the same.I could balance and blueprint the motors and manage to squeeze another 15 to 20 horses out of them with this procedure alone.Ford ,Chevy, and Chrysler don't have the same standards on quality control that Nissan, or even Toyota have.The old saying about making sure that you buy a Detroit car that was made Tuesday-Thursday is true.I'm not trying to put down american made cars just stating the experience that I have had with them . I will still be buying one of the 2006 Cobras when are released but I am keeping my max for daily driving not to mention the looks on my friends faces when they try to take off and leave me in there V-8's only to see me keeping up with them in there rearview mirror.Priceless!!!!!