VE30DE: NVCS ON vs OFF
11-09-2003, 01:45 AM
#1
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
VE30DE: NVCS ON vs OFF
VE30DE NVCS ON vs OFF from SAE 920672: Development of a Compact 3-Liter Nissan Engine (the VE30DE)
3rd genners still get love
3rd genners still get love
11-09-2003, 01:54 AM
#2
heheheh, whats up Steve?
One thing though, I believe with our VE's the VTC's come on for the low end, but then turn off for the high end. I appologise in advance if I misread the other post, its late and I'm not thinking
One thing though, I believe with our VE's the VTC's come on for the low end, but then turn off for the high end. I appologise in advance if I misread the other post, its late and I'm not thinking
11-09-2003, 07:03 AM
#5
Originally Posted by internetautomar
Anyone know how to change NM (newton meters) to FT/lbs
yaaay!
11-09-2003, 07:16 AM
#7
Originally Posted by MrGone
heheheh, whats up Steve?
One thing though, I believe with our VE's the VTC's come on for the low end, but then turn off for the high end. I appologise in advance if I misread the other post, its late and I'm not thinking
One thing though, I believe with our VE's the VTC's come on for the low end, but then turn off for the high end. I appologise in advance if I misread the other post, its late and I'm not thinking
11-09-2003, 07:52 AM
#8
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
Originally Posted by internetautomar
Anyone know how to change NM (newton meters) to FT/lbs
From 3400rpm up to just before the crossover point, it appears to be a difference of about 15 Nm which is 11 lb-ft.
So help me learn about the VE some more. If/when VTCs are "grounded" (I know they're problematic
) does that mean they're locked ON or OFF? I would think 'off' because locked 'on' probably wouldn't give a very good idle, but I'm sure somebody knows or has tried this. 
11-09-2003, 07:57 AM
#10
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 562
grounded on, and the idle doesnt change that much, i hooked up a switch 2 mine once when doing a motor flush, and the idle changed, but the motor corrects itself, and if you didnt hear them right next to eachother u probably wouldnt know the difference
11-09-2003, 08:01 AM
#11
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
So help me learn about the VE some more. If/when VTCs are "grounded" (I know they're problematic ) does that mean they're locked ON or OFF? I would think 'off' because locked 'on' probably wouldn't give a very good idle, but I'm sure somebody knows or has tried this.
) does that mean they're locked ON or OFF? I would think 'off' because locked 'on' probably wouldn't give a very good idle, but I'm sure somebody knows or has tried this. I'm still trying to completely figure it out though, because it seems like if their grounded it would have the same effect as just unplugging the harness, but with my car if I unground it or unplug the harness the clicking (more of a knocking I think) comes back. I've been meaning to grab a spare solenoid and try to figure out what exactly is going on.
Oh yeah, when I first grounded my VTC's, the car would have some trouble holding a steady idle, but now its pretty much smoothed out. I think the ECU just needed some time to adjust to the 'new' cams (since its running a more agressive cam all the time). I swapped ECU's at the time and it didnt fix anything. Some people have reported this small 'relearning' process, while others said it wasn't a problem.
11-09-2003, 09:11 AM
#12
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
Cool thanks for the info. 
According to the SAE documentation I have though, NVCS ON means advanced timing, not retarded. Here's what it says....
The NVCS system uses a hydraulic pressure and a helical gear to vary the phase of the intake camshaft sprocket and camshaft in a crank angle of 20 degrees. ontrol is accomplished by means of a solenoid valve. Figure 2 shows the valve lift curve for the VE30DE and Figure 3 the effect of NVCS. The system works to reduce valve overlap during idling (NVCS OFF), to advance intake valve closing under heavy loads at low to medium engine speeds (NVCS ON) and to retard intake valve closing in the high engine speed range. A stable, high torque, high output engine resulting from varying the valve timing at two levels to match the loads and engine speed.
According to the SAE documentation I have though, NVCS ON means advanced timing, not retarded. Here's what it says....
The NVCS system uses a hydraulic pressure and a helical gear to vary the phase of the intake camshaft sprocket and camshaft in a crank angle of 20 degrees. ontrol is accomplished by means of a solenoid valve. Figure 2 shows the valve lift curve for the VE30DE and Figure 3 the effect of NVCS. The system works to reduce valve overlap during idling (NVCS OFF), to advance intake valve closing under heavy loads at low to medium engine speeds (NVCS ON) and to retard intake valve closing in the high engine speed range. A stable, high torque, high output engine resulting from varying the valve timing at two levels to match the loads and engine speed.
11-09-2003, 12:26 PM
#13
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg174.JPG
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
Those are from a 1994 FSM that I have. hmmmm, now I need to compare it, I wish I had a bigger screen
-Shawn
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
Those are from a 1994 FSM that I have. hmmmm, now I need to compare it, I wish I had a bigger screen
-Shawn
11-09-2003, 01:17 PM
#14
Originally Posted by MrGone
When their grounded, it disables the VTC's, so you have less bottom end, but you still maintain the highend. Basically when the VTC's are engaged it retards the cams to gain the low end, so when there grounded you loose the lowend, but you still maintain the high end.
I'm still trying to completely figure it out though, because it seems like if their grounded it would have the same effect as just unplugging the harness, but with my car if I unground it or unplug the harness the clicking (more of a knocking I think) comes back. I've been meaning to grab a spare solenoid and try to figure out what exactly is going on.
Oh yeah, when I first grounded my VTC's, the car would have some trouble holding a steady idle, but now its pretty much smoothed out. I think the ECU just needed some time to adjust to the 'new' cams (since its running a more agressive cam all the time). I swapped ECU's at the time and it didnt fix anything. Some people have reported this small 'relearning' process, while others said it wasn't a problem.
I'm still trying to completely figure it out though, because it seems like if their grounded it would have the same effect as just unplugging the harness, but with my car if I unground it or unplug the harness the clicking (more of a knocking I think) comes back. I've been meaning to grab a spare solenoid and try to figure out what exactly is going on.
Oh yeah, when I first grounded my VTC's, the car would have some trouble holding a steady idle, but now its pretty much smoothed out. I think the ECU just needed some time to adjust to the 'new' cams (since its running a more agressive cam all the time). I swapped ECU's at the time and it didnt fix anything. Some people have reported this small 'relearning' process, while others said it wasn't a problem.
The VTC's are negativly triggered, so by grounding them, they are turned ON NOT OFF. So there will be a loss of high end HP! NOT low end.
Also, when at idle the VTC's are off and the ecu only turns them on when the engine is under a load (typically around 2000rpm or so depending on conditions).
Read the friggen FSM damn it.
Stev-tech, thats correct, when the VTC's are engaged the timming is advanced.
11-09-2003, 02:54 PM
#17
Originally Posted by todamax
My butt dyno say that with the VTC's grounded there is a large power gain at 3K RPM. My unstable idle never went away, and the low end sucks.
interautomar, thats correct, you'll loose top end power. The connectors are also known to corrode on the VTC solenoid, another problem that has happend is the solenoid acquiring a crack that will allow oil to flow into the connector and give a bad connection.
11-09-2003, 03:15 PM
#18
Eric, yeah, I read that post, and it did and didnt make sense at the time. I was thinking about that too.
I'm going to put an end to my confusion in a few minutes, I'm going to grab a spare solenoid and a battery (or computer power supply) and see how it works.
I'm going to put an end to my confusion in a few minutes, I'm going to grab a spare solenoid and a battery (or computer power supply) and see how it works.
11-09-2003, 05:35 PM
#19
Originally Posted by MrGone
Eric, yeah, I read that post, and it did and didnt make sense at the time. I was thinking about that too.
I'm going to put an end to my confusion in a few minutes, I'm going to grab a spare solenoid and a battery (or computer power supply) and see how it works.
I'm going to put an end to my confusion in a few minutes, I'm going to grab a spare solenoid and a battery (or computer power supply) and see how it works.
11-09-2003, 07:18 PM
#22
Ok, I reread the thread, parts of the FSM, looked on the car, my spare wiring harness, and spare VTC solenoids and I'm now going to try and make sense of this. I'm going to try and be very specific in this, maybe it will be put into the FAQ and everyone will know how the VTC's work.
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
11-09-2003, 07:26 PM
#24
Originally Posted by MrGone
Ok, I reread the thread, parts of the FSM, looked on the car, my spare wiring harness, and spare VTC solenoids and I'm now going to try and make sense of this. I'm going to try and be very specific in this, maybe it will be put into the FAQ and everyone will know how the VTC's work.
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
Now I'm even more confused When mine go I'm just gonna fix em right and let my uncle cuss me out for makin him do it
cheap/free labor hehehehehe
11-09-2003, 07:59 PM
#27
Originally Posted by MrGone
Ok, I reread the thread, parts of the FSM, looked on the car, my spare wiring harness, and spare VTC solenoids and I'm now going to try and make sense of this. I'm going to try and be very specific in this, maybe it will be put into the FAQ and everyone will know how the VTC's work.
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids are disabled (grounded) via grounding the Yellow/Green(positive 12v wire coming from the ECU) wire on that leads to the VTC Solenoids. You can ground it anywhere along the Yellow/Green wire and it will ground both solenoids. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids cannot turn on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92ma...tcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source and a ground present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have a positive 12v source and a ground. When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are cutting the 12v source short that means the VTC Solenoid cannot activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will send a 12v signal to the VTC Solenoid if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the 12v power to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire which leads to the VTC Solenoids is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘I’. If the VTC solenoids are always activated then the cams will follow profile “II”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”
The End.
Did I do a good job?
-Shawn
For the most part what you wrote is correct, except for the part where grounding them turn them off, IT TURNS THEM ON!!!. The ECU is negativly switching them on by completing the circuit on the negative side (I know its sounds a little counter intuitive, but if you know how the fuel injectors work they ARE ALSO NEGATIVLY TRIGGERED,THEY ALWAYS HAVE A POSITIVE SIGNAL AND THEY ARE TURNED ON BY PULSING THE NEGATIVE SIDE).
11-09-2003, 08:16 PM
#29
ok...
first thing I did was hook up my spare solenoid flipped the car to on (not idleing though) and checked it and the solenoid was engaged, however then I remembered that I grounded my VTC's. I undid the ground and the solenoid is disengaged.
Gotcha, Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to edit my post soon.
first thing I did was hook up my spare solenoid flipped the car to on (not idleing though) and checked it and the solenoid was engaged, however then I remembered that I grounded my VTC's. I undid the ground and the solenoid is disengaged.
Gotcha, Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to edit my post soon.
11-09-2003, 08:53 PM
#30
ok revision:
Ok, I reread the thread, parts of the FSM, looked on the car, my spare wiring harness, and spare VTC solenoids and I'm now going to try and make sense of this. I'm going to try and be very specific in this, maybe it will be put into the FAQ and everyone will know how the VTC's work.
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids can be enabled by grounding the Yellow/Green wire that leads to the VTC Solenoids. The Yellow/Green wire is a ground wire coming from the ECU. You can enable both solenoids by splicing a ground into any area along the Yellow/Green wire. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids will be on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92m...vtcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source (Red/Blue wire) and a ground(Yellow/Green wire) present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have both a positive 12v source (Red/Blue wire) and a ground(Yellow/Green wire). When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are completing the 12v circuit which means the VTC Solenoid activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will enable the ground (Yellow/Green wire) so the VTC solenoid will activate if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the ground to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire, which leads to the VTC Solenoids, is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘II’. If the VTC solenoids are always deactivated then the cams will follow profile “I”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”.
sorry for the confusion everyone, and a big thanks to Eric for the correction.
Ok, I reread the thread, parts of the FSM, looked on the car, my spare wiring harness, and spare VTC solenoids and I'm now going to try and make sense of this. I'm going to try and be very specific in this, maybe it will be put into the FAQ and everyone will know how the VTC's work.
Grounding the VTC's:
The VTC Solenoids can be enabled by grounding the Yellow/Green wire that leads to the VTC Solenoids. The Yellow/Green wire is a ground wire coming from the ECU. You can enable both solenoids by splicing a ground into any area along the Yellow/Green wire. When the Yellow/Green wire is grounded, the VTC Solenoids will be on.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92m...vtcsolenoid.JPG
What the VTC Solenoid does:
The purpose of the VTC Solenoid is to activate and deactivate the VTC Assemblies.
How the VTC Solenoid works:
VTC Solenoid turns an electrical signal into mechanical movement. This mechanical movement is in the form of a round cylinder which is forced down when the VTC Solenoid has both a 12v power source (Red/Blue wire) and a ground(Yellow/Green wire) present. When the cylinder is pushed down it blocks oil from passing threw the VTC Solenoid, which in turn activates the VTC Assembly.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
The VTC Solenoid remains ‘open’ (oil can freely pass threw the solenoid) whenever it does not have both a positive 12v source (Red/Blue wire) and a ground(Yellow/Green wire). When you ground the Yellow/Green wire, you are completing the 12v circuit which means the VTC Solenoid activate and block the oil from passing threw it. Also, the VTC will operate no matter which terminal receives the positive signal and which one receives ground. In terms of basic functionality, it does not matter if you plug the wire harness in the VTC Solenoid backwards, the solenoid will still force the cylinder down to block oil from passing threw.
How the VTC Assembly works:
I have not torn apart a VTC Assembly yet, so I am not entirely sure how it works.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg175.JPG
When the VTC’s come on:
The ECU will enable the ground (Yellow/Green wire) so the VTC solenoid will activate if the following conditions are met.
-Engine coolant temperature is below 110*C (230*F)
-Engine speed is above idle but below 4,600rpm
-Engine load is high
-Selector lever is other than “N” or “P” position
If those conditions are not met then the ECU stops sending the ground to the VTC Solenoids.
http://mrgone.homeip.net/images/92max/vtcs/pg176.JPG
So what does this all mean?
Well in order to completely understand what this means, you will have to look at the picture in this link.
When the Yellow/Green wire, which leads to the VTC Solenoids, is grounded, the cams will follow profile ‘II’. If the VTC solenoids are always deactivated then the cams will follow profile “I”. If the VTC’s are controlled solely by the ECU and all of the required conditions are met, then the cams will follow profile “II” until 4600rpm where the VTC solenoids will deactivate and the cams will follow profile “I”.
sorry for the confusion everyone, and a big thanks to Eric for the correction.
11-10-2003, 07:15 AM
#31
Sounds good.
But also it should make more sense, When grounding the VTC's and the sprokets are engaged, this solves the problem of the lame spring because its now compressed. So the clack clack is gone, the return sping is no longer trying to bring the sproket back into the un-advanced position.
But also it should make more sense, When grounding the VTC's and the sprokets are engaged, this solves the problem of the lame spring because its now compressed. So the clack clack is gone, the return sping is no longer trying to bring the sproket back into the un-advanced position.
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