SmithAtlanta

Today, I decided to change my valve cover gaskets and the knock sensor while I was at it. The knock sensor went in w/o a hitch. I then changed the front valve cover gasket and that went fine. I then ran into some trouble with the back valve cover gasket. I was pulling the cover off and a 2 inch piece of the gasket went down one of the tunnels in the heads. It was a complete fluke and I tried to get it out but there was no way to get it out. Obviously I have to get it out so my question is, can I blow some compressed air into the tunnel and will it blow out into the oil pan or should I just plan on pulling the engine to get it out.

It's really amazing how everything is going perfectly one minute and then the crap hits the fan the next minute. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

N34JZ

iTrader: (1)

that sucks, Im no engine expert, but theres no way to get it out? what if you took like a rod with some double sided tape or something to try to get it to stick on?

xenomax

iTrader: (1)

i would say taking off the oil pan and blowing air threw it sounds like your solution.

dkris42

magnet bar maybe?

SmithAtlanta

I wish that would work but the piece that fell in is rubber.

I wish I knew where the tunnel on the heads end up. I think that it drains back into the pan but I would like a second or third "Yes that drains into the pan" reply before I take the pan off. Taking the pan off is no easy task either since I have to deal with part of the transmission that covers the pan. Thanks for the replies so far.

N34JZ

iTrader: (1)

Im sure some people who know will be on soon.

bump

Spipedong90

I forgot the official name, but there's a tool that has three little claws and a flexible shaft. It's commonly used to retrieve screws and the like. I have one, but couldn't tell you WTF its called. That might work.

bansheenomore

If you are thinking of taking off the head....Pull the engine its easier. If you have the intake off you are pretty much there. It goes out the bottom fully assembled. I just did this yesterday...get a book and tear it up

subs1000w

we call them a claw tool at work you can buy them at sears for about 7 dollars they work great but if you cant see the piece that fell your screwed. you dont have to pull the head you should just beable to pull the oil pan. you should not have to do anything to the tranny to get the oil pan off you just have to remove the crossmember

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

with those claw tools (since they bend) you can fish it down there pretty far. i'd try that first because taking the heads off will cost you a lot of money (gaskets and milling if needed and most of the time milling is needed since they are aluminum)

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

They also make nice little mirrors and things you can use to see where stuff is. My mom's second husband was a titanium welder (it must be welded in a vacuum) and he has all kinds of mirrors, grabbers, magnets and the like. I would look into a few things like that before you tear down your engine any further.

SmithAtlanta

You just made my day, sub1000w.

I tried to fish the rubber piece out and I couldn't get it out. After going down 10-12 inches with the tool and not bumping into the rubber piece I figured that it's gotta be in the oil pan. Now I just have to take a closer look at the oil pan tomorrow and figure out how to get the crossmember off. I was a little leary about taking the crossmember off because I thought it supported the motor. Thanks for all the help, guys..

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

Vaccum....

nubiannupe

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, but that just sucks!

RosenKen

By tunnel do you mean down where the timing chain goes? That sucks, but you may be in a bit of luck. Take a big flashlight and shine it down there and see what you find. There is actually quite a large lip about 5" down where the rubber might be stuck on. IF you can get it out with the claw, go for it. It's also not hard to take the cylinder head front cover off... it's just a bunch of small 10mm bolts (9 of them). You'll also have to take off the upper chain guide (3 bolts, dont let thjem fall down!) No gasket needed, but you will need some liquid gasket to put the cover back on. You'll probably need a small box or open end wrench to help with some of those bolts. Hopefully it got stuck there. I doubt it would have fallen down all the way to the oil pan since there's a lot of hardware in the timing covers of the VE. Even if you dont see it after taking the top front cover off, you may still be able to fish it out with the claw from there. Good luck!

SmithAtlanta

Actually it was one of the small hole over to the right side of the head, not near the chain.

bansheenomore

The only small holes on the right would have to be oil galleys. These go straight down tothe block. If it is in those it must be very small.

If you want to take off the pan you will need a special tool or have to make one. You have to support the engine from the top with a cradle. These bolt on to the strut towers and then bolt to the engine. Dont try to "RIG UP" something. The engine is heavy and two last mounts wont hold anything. All they are is 2 3/8 bolts through a bracket.

If you want it off though take out two big bolt in core support, two nuts at rear, and the two long bolt from the motor mount pivot. Then watch your head cause here it comes.

RosenKen

You're not talking about one of the spark plug/coil holes are you? The three big ones in each head? Just trying to cover all the bases.

SmithAtlanta

The tunnel is on the outer edge of the head next to the valve spring and the hole is a little smaller than my pinky finger. I can't find anything on the design of the head so I don't know what to call it.

bansheenomore

That sounds like one of your oil galley holes. Some of those don't go all the way through. There are a couple of small (TINY) jet in the block. If it is in those holes it won't go through. Try a small piece of piano or guitar string with a hook bent at end and go fish. If you dont hook anything push a straight piece through. If you dont feel anything for about 4 inches or so look in the pan.

When you drain your oil do it into a strainer for paint, see what you get. Blow out the hole with air first if decide to drop pan. Can't hurt.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

so this happened on the rear head right?

I'll take a look at it tommarrow morning.

SmithAtlanta

Yes. Thanks for taking a look...

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

It's an oil galley, it just goes down to the oil pain. I believe it just goes straight down.

If your going to take the oil pan off and need to take the crossmember, then you will need to support the engine if you take the crossmember off.

SmithAtlanta

That's what I learned also, today. I went to a guy that builds motors for a living and I pointed out where the piece fell in on a ford head and he said that it most likely went all the way into the pan. I also talked to another mechanic that works on Nissans and Toyotas and he said that since the gasket piece was only 2 or so inches long and rubber that it would most likely get chewed up and spit out(he also said that since it was brittle it should disintegrate) He said that it shouldn't get back into the engine because of the screen in the oil pan(maybe worded this wrong).

I also ran into the issue with the crossmember being in the way while trying to take the oil pan off. Can I support the whole motor by putting a 2x10 on top of a jack underneath the transmission(manual). Since I gotta take the oil pan off, I'm trying to find a location to support the engine w/o buying an engine hoist(that sits on the strut towers). I'll buy or rent one if I need to but I was wondering about supporting the engine by the tranny.

RosenKen

You can also use the crank pulley as a support. Just cut a circular cutout from a block of wood. Also support the transmission. The tranny does have its own mounts which should hold it fine, but do put something else under there. Make sure your jacks are VERY sturdy, it is a heavy engine!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

use a piece of 2x4 under the crank pulley and the tranny mounts will support the other side of it. wouldn't hurt to put another jack or something under the tranny though to make sure.

have you tried sticking a shop vac on that little oil drain hole yet? (be sure to clean out the tank on the shop vac so you can see if it sucks it out)

otherwise, you're relegated to pull the pan.. BUT.. honestly, I wouldn't be that concerned with it.. if it were metal shavings, I'd say to tear it apart and clean it out. if it's rubber, then stick a flexible "pusher" down there, or pour some oil in that hole and make sure that it drains into the pan, then leave it alone.
rubber certainly won't hurt anything, and if it's that big it's not going to get sucked into the oil pump (there's a strainer screen on the oil pump pickup tube).

SmithAtlanta

Thanks for the info, Matt and RosenKen. I'll do exactly as you guy say.


I tried to get it out with a piece of piano wire but I never hit anything(probably went down 13-14 inches into the oil galley).


I poured some oil down the hole after I tried the piano wire. I bet I'll see that piece of rubber in the pan when I drop it. Thanks for the info.

And to think I was mainly worried about dropping a bolt into the intake manifold.

By the way, Thanks Rosenken for that write up over on 4DSC. That made everything very easy.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

the rubber washer has a small metal core...so don't think it's all rubber.

SmithAtlanta

Don't mean to bring this back from the dead but I wanted to update everyone on my gasket issue.

I pulled the pan over the weekend and what did I find? The rubber gasket piece sitting in my oil pan. So if you ever drop a piece of the valve cover gasket down an oil galley, you now know where it ends up. I would have been ok to not pull the pan because there is an oil screen that blocks any large material from going up into the piston area. It was a tough way to learn but now I know.

Spipedong90

Yes, but when you share, then we ALL know. (Well those who search anyway)

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Good that you found it!

It's always safest to pull the pan when something like that happens, but if you know it's not going to get sucked up into the engine, I wouldn't have worried too much about it and just driven with it.

You did the right thing though.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

i'd have worried, cause if it blocks the screen, even partially, that means less oil flow to my already starving VTCs

SmithAtlanta

True.... I was surprised how clean my screen was after 180,000 miles and how clean my pan was. I didn't have much sludge at all. I guess using Mobil 1 for 175,000 miles and changing it regularly has paid off. Now if I can get my injector back I'll crank her up again and go for another 180,000.

subs1000w

excelent to here everythings alright