Torque Converter
03-11-2004, 06:37 AM
#2
03-11-2004, 06:53 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by DanNY
03-11-2004, 08:55 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by Nismo87SE
I have a protorque T-convertor from my old maxima still. If you want it, its yours for $250 shipped.
03-12-2004, 01:09 AM
#7
Originally Posted by furious max
Can you explain what does this converter do? I read alittle of it. would it fit on my 90se?
Leave a message for Andre if he isn't there. He is the guy that actually designs and makes the converters, so he knows what he's talking about. He runs one of the oldest performance TC shops in the nation... which means, they have a HUGE database of a history of TCs they've upgraded. They got my TC right the first time and they've never done a VE Auto before. They recently did a G35 and they got his right the first time. I've talked to the G35 guy several times. He's very happy.
But if you get a Protorque, you won't really know how it will react to YOUR car b/c Protorque basically makes them all the same. But you're lucky, you can simply ask Nismo87SE how his car did since you have basically the same motor he had.
03-12-2004, 09:32 AM
#8
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Just so you know, Nismo87SE is a great guy and you should get his TC. If for some reason you don't, you can buy the "off the shelf" Protorque TC or get one custom made for YOUR Maxima, not Maximas in general. It's best that you actually talk to someone, so I highly recommend the shop that did mine... www.edgeracingconverters.com
Leave a message for Andre if he isn't there. He is the guy that actually designs and makes the converters, so he knows what he's talking about. He runs one of the oldest performance TC shops in the nation... which means, they have a HUGE database of a history of TCs they've upgraded. They got my TC right the first time and they've never done a VE Auto before. They recently did a G35 and they got his right the first time. I've talked to the G35 guy several times. He's very happy.
But if you get a Protorque, you won't really know how it will react to YOUR car b/c Protorque basically makes them all the same. But you're lucky, you can simply ask Nismo87SE how his car did since you have basically the same motor he had.
Leave a message for Andre if he isn't there. He is the guy that actually designs and makes the converters, so he knows what he's talking about. He runs one of the oldest performance TC shops in the nation... which means, they have a HUGE database of a history of TCs they've upgraded. They got my TC right the first time and they've never done a VE Auto before. They recently did a G35 and they got his right the first time. I've talked to the G35 guy several times. He's very happy.
But if you get a Protorque, you won't really know how it will react to YOUR car b/c Protorque basically makes them all the same. But you're lucky, you can simply ask Nismo87SE how his car did since you have basically the same motor he had.
have edge racing been on any race cars? protorque is in many NHRA race cars. i believe vinny ten use/used their TC on his supra.
03-12-2004, 03:52 PM
#10
Originally Posted by DanNY
i disagree. protorque will make whatever stall you want. they DO NOT make them all the same. Aaron i visted their shop. you bought your TC from another place doesn't mean that protorque is not worth looking at and it doesn't mean protorque won't make you a custom TC..because i asked and they said whatever you want they can make it but driveability goes down if the stall is too high.
have edge racing been on any race cars? protorque is in many NHRA race cars. i believe vinny ten use/used their TC on his supra.
have edge racing been on any race cars? protorque is in many NHRA race cars. i believe vinny ten use/used their TC on his supra.
Edge Racing has been in business for a long time. All they have done is race cars. That is the reason for their business. It's not as big a name as Protorque or Level 10 might be, but I wanted a shop that I could talk to and would show some interest in what TC is right for me... not what TC is right for a street Maxima. Edge Racing was able to give me a 3400 true stall without any drivability issue what so ever. During lock up, I actually rev lower which gives me better gas mileage and the same heat build up. During all the slipping around town, I'd say my tranny heats up about 10 degrees hotter than before. But that would go for any TC that slips more.
And the customer service alone was worth it. Andre is the guy who I talked to. He designs and builds the converters. He actually returned one of my calls while he was on vacation in Alaska. WOW! He also said that if 6 months down the road, if i'm not satisfied with my stall, I could ship it in for free and he would tweak it a bit more. Not many shops will go that extra distance to get 100% customer satisfaction. I am definitely happy with my 3400 stall. Protorque said they could only raise my stall by 300rpm. Which was NOT worth it for me. That would have given me a true stall of about 2800 instead of the 3400 I wanted.
2 tha MAX, if you decide to get a high stall TC, I would recommend a tranny cooler and a tranny temp gauge to keep an eye on things. Other than that, no it doesn't matter what other mods you have on the car. But keep in mind that there are many variables on YOUR car that will determine your stall speed. The heavier your car is, the higher it will stall, the more torque you make out of the hole, the higher it will stall. Gearing also has a lot to do with it.
But I would highly recommend you to get a TC. It's the BEST mod you can do for a NA Automatic. Better than Ypipe.
03-12-2004, 09:24 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Well, all I have to go by is the lousy email response Protorque sent me. All i told them is that I have a Maxima and they reply back with a copy and paste email they seem to send to everyone with part number included. They didn't ask me about my curb weight, my gearing, or my power upgrades. All those things matter as to what stall I would get. But I'm sure Protorque can do custom stuff, but they didn't seem to be offering it to me in their emails.
Edge Racing has been in business for a long time. All they have done is race cars. That is the reason for their business. It's not as big a name as Protorque or Level 10 might be, but I wanted a shop that I could talk to and would show some interest in what TC is right for me... not what TC is right for a street Maxima. Edge Racing was able to give me a 3400 true stall without any drivability issue what so ever. During lock up, I actually rev lower which gives me better gas mileage and the same heat build up. During all the slipping around town, I'd say my tranny heats up about 10 degrees hotter than before. But that would go for any TC that slips more.
And the customer service alone was worth it. Andre is the guy who I talked to. He designs and builds the converters. He actually returned one of my calls while he was on vacation in Alaska. WOW! He also said that if 6 months down the road, if i'm not satisfied with my stall, I could ship it in for free and he would tweak it a bit more. Not many shops will go that extra distance to get 100% customer satisfaction. I am definitely happy with my 3400 stall. Protorque said they could only raise my stall by 300rpm. Which was NOT worth it for me. That would have given me a true stall of about 2800 instead of the 3400 I wanted.
2 tha MAX, if you decide to get a high stall TC, I would recommend a tranny cooler and a tranny temp gauge to keep an eye on things. Other than that, no it doesn't matter what other mods you have on the car. But keep in mind that there are many variables on YOUR car that will determine your stall speed. The heavier your car is, the higher it will stall, the more torque you make out of the hole, the higher it will stall. Gearing also has a lot to do with it.
But I would highly recommend you to get a TC. It's the BEST mod you can do for a NA Automatic. Better than Ypipe.
Edge Racing has been in business for a long time. All they have done is race cars. That is the reason for their business. It's not as big a name as Protorque or Level 10 might be, but I wanted a shop that I could talk to and would show some interest in what TC is right for me... not what TC is right for a street Maxima. Edge Racing was able to give me a 3400 true stall without any drivability issue what so ever. During lock up, I actually rev lower which gives me better gas mileage and the same heat build up. During all the slipping around town, I'd say my tranny heats up about 10 degrees hotter than before. But that would go for any TC that slips more.
And the customer service alone was worth it. Andre is the guy who I talked to. He designs and builds the converters. He actually returned one of my calls while he was on vacation in Alaska. WOW! He also said that if 6 months down the road, if i'm not satisfied with my stall, I could ship it in for free and he would tweak it a bit more. Not many shops will go that extra distance to get 100% customer satisfaction. I am definitely happy with my 3400 stall. Protorque said they could only raise my stall by 300rpm. Which was NOT worth it for me. That would have given me a true stall of about 2800 instead of the 3400 I wanted.
2 tha MAX, if you decide to get a high stall TC, I would recommend a tranny cooler and a tranny temp gauge to keep an eye on things. Other than that, no it doesn't matter what other mods you have on the car. But keep in mind that there are many variables on YOUR car that will determine your stall speed. The heavier your car is, the higher it will stall, the more torque you make out of the hole, the higher it will stall. Gearing also has a lot to do with it.
But I would highly recommend you to get a TC. It's the BEST mod you can do for a NA Automatic. Better than Ypipe.
03-13-2004, 12:13 AM
#12
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
Goto Aaron's site and watch the vids of his car. Then you will see the difference in launch a higher stall torque convertor makes.
Originally Posted by furious max
Ok it's sounds good...... Now Can you tell me What does all this mean? Again what does the TC do? What's the meaning of stall from rpm to rpm? I'm new to this game. I need to understand what you guys are talkin about. I called protorque and the tech has to call me back if he doesn't then i'll call the other guy. Again help me out with the understanding. Thanks......
03-13-2004, 01:40 AM
#13
Originally Posted by Nismo87SE
Goto Aaron's site and watch the vids of his car. Then you will see the difference in launch a higher stall torque convertor makes.
Simply put, a high stall TC will allow you to launch at a higher rpm. Stock, you HAVE to launch at 1800 or so. Which sucks. If you're able to launch at 2500, then you will instantly put more power to the wheels on the launch and you will probably spin them. Also calculated in the equation of a high stall TC, is torque multiplication. Every TC multiplies torque. Lets say you stock TC puts out 100ft-lbs of torque at 1800 rpm. If you launch at 2500, you would be putting out 120ft-lbs of torque b/c your motor is making more power at that rpm. Now, you stock torque multiplication is probably around 1.6. 100 x 1.6 is 160 ft-lbs that you are actually putting to the wheels... minus the drivetrain loss of power. So now with this higher stall, AND higher torque multiplication... it's 120 x 2.2... which is 264 ft-lbs. So you are able to put 100 MORE ft-lbs of torque to the wheels than before ON THE LAUNCH. That's ALL!!! Just on the launch.
When you suddenly shock the tranny, the torque will spike to 260 ft-lbs (BTW, I'm just using these numbers as an example), and then gradually go down and then you will be running of the torque the motor puts out. So, the TC really only helps in the first 60 feet of the launch. After that, you shouldn't notice any difference on a street type performance TC.
03-13-2004, 06:06 AM
#14
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Simple as that. Good answer.
Simply put, a high stall TC will allow you to launch at a higher rpm. Stock, you HAVE to launch at 1800 or so. Which sucks. If you're able to launch at 2500, then you will instantly put more power to the wheels on the launch and you will probably spin them. Also calculated in the equation of a high stall TC, is torque multiplication. Every TC multiplies torque. Lets say you stock TC puts out 100ft-lbs of torque at 1800 rpm. If you launch at 2500, you would be putting out 120ft-lbs of torque b/c your motor is making more power at that rpm. Now, you stock torque multiplication is probably around 1.6. 100 x 1.6 is 160 ft-lbs that you are actually putting to the wheels... minus the drivetrain loss of power. So now with this higher stall, AND higher torque multiplication... it's 120 x 2.2... which is 264 ft-lbs. So you are able to put 100 MORE ft-lbs of torque to the wheels than before ON THE LAUNCH. That's ALL!!! Just on the launch.
When you suddenly shock the tranny, the torque will spike to 260 ft-lbs (BTW, I'm just using these numbers as an example), and then gradually go down and then you will be running of the torque the motor puts out. So, the TC really only helps in the first 60 feet of the launch. After that, you shouldn't notice any difference on a street type performance TC.
Simply put, a high stall TC will allow you to launch at a higher rpm. Stock, you HAVE to launch at 1800 or so. Which sucks. If you're able to launch at 2500, then you will instantly put more power to the wheels on the launch and you will probably spin them. Also calculated in the equation of a high stall TC, is torque multiplication. Every TC multiplies torque. Lets say you stock TC puts out 100ft-lbs of torque at 1800 rpm. If you launch at 2500, you would be putting out 120ft-lbs of torque b/c your motor is making more power at that rpm. Now, you stock torque multiplication is probably around 1.6. 100 x 1.6 is 160 ft-lbs that you are actually putting to the wheels... minus the drivetrain loss of power. So now with this higher stall, AND higher torque multiplication... it's 120 x 2.2... which is 264 ft-lbs. So you are able to put 100 MORE ft-lbs of torque to the wheels than before ON THE LAUNCH. That's ALL!!! Just on the launch.
When you suddenly shock the tranny, the torque will spike to 260 ft-lbs (BTW, I'm just using these numbers as an example), and then gradually go down and then you will be running of the torque the motor puts out. So, the TC really only helps in the first 60 feet of the launch. After that, you shouldn't notice any difference on a street type performance TC.
You definately fired his mind with this one
1) Aaron, besides the fact ProTorque gave you a copy/paste email response do you know if they have a VE converter?
2) If this was EdgeRacing first VE converter, do you know where they got the core from? Maybe they got one from the bone yard. Did you have to give them your OEM convertor as a core?
3) With your new EdgeRacing converter, when you're sitting at a light and you lift your foot of the brake will the car creap foward like normal? I'm trying to fully understand how a higher stall converter acts with normal everyday city driving.
4) Besides your 3400 rpm true stall speed, were there any other numbers you were considering?
5) Now that you've had your 3400 rpm for almost two weeks and enough time to feel it out, do you wish you would have tried another rpm stall speed, if so which stall speed?
6) Would you consider 3400 to be too high or perfect for a moderate enthusiates?
MIKE
03-13-2004, 12:51 PM
#15
Originally Posted by CandiMan
You definately fired his mind with this one
1) Aaron, besides the fact ProTorque gave you a copy/paste email response do you know if they have a VE converter?
2) If this was EdgeRacing first VE converter, do you know where they got the core from? Maybe they got one from the bone yard. Did you have to give them your OEM convertor as a core?
The way they build these TCs is they find other cores from other cars and they interchange parts to raise or lower the stall. Andre (EdgeRacing guy) found out that only 2 other TCs are possible to interchange parts in and out of. That sucks for VEs. But the other good news was, he thinks he can get a true stall of over 3K out of it with the parts he has.
If I wanted any other stall above 3K or so, he would have to bend parts, which TC shops try to shy away from since it weakens them somewhat. But they have their ways to make it tough enough.So, I didn't have to send in my TC. He sent me a core and didn't care if I sent my core back in since shipping is so much, he wouldn't make any money off the core. So he was cool enough to let me keep my stock core.
I LOVE this company. Protorque would NEVER allow that to happen.
3) With your new EdgeRacing converter, when you're sitting at a light and you lift your foot of the brake will the car creap foward like normal? I'm trying to fully understand how a higher stall converter acts with normal everyday city driving.
4) Besides your 3400 rpm true stall speed, were there any other numbers you were considering?
So after I looked into Protorque, someone told me about EdgeRacing. I looked into the G35driver.com guy that went with EdgeRacing. He had a great write up on his thoughts. His stall was raised 1000 rpm. Which is what I wanted. But I only got about a 700 rpm raise in stall. The g35 has so much more torque and is heavier, so it will flash higher. The G35 guy actually sent his TC back in for some reason b/c he decided to go with a TwinTurbo setup and he has to put the stall back to around stock. haha Oh well. The customer service being as great as it is, he will never have to pay the $400 he paid the first time. It's usually a $75 rebuild fee. Which is NICE!
5) Now that you've had your 3400 rpm for almost two weeks and enough time to feel it out, do you wish you would have tried another rpm stall speed, if so which stall speed?
I say if someone only got a 300rpm raise in stall, it would be POINTLESS. Don't waste your time. It would drive the same, it would launch about the same. You really wouldn't notice much difference except for the fact that you might be able to slightly chirp the wheels where you couldn't before.
But I got a 600-700rpm raise and it's MUCH better I think. Drivability is not effect other than the tranny temp can build up about 10 more degrees when it's slipping around the town. When it's cruising on the highway, it locks up lower, so you get better gas mileage and lower heat.
The reason why I think this stall is right for me if b/c I drive my car daily. I talked to Andre more and I gave him my results and he wrote them down. He said, "nice! It appears to me that you got the exact results we were shooting for." (3200-3400 true stall) But he said, he thinks we are right on that fine line as it is. If we go any higher of a stall, you will lose low end and lose more drivability. I do NOT care about drivability issues. haha But I DO care about me losing top end power. I can't afford to lose any power up top. That's what makes a VE a VE.
So, bottomline is, if I go with any higher of a stall, I will build up even more heat and most importantly, lose top end. Right now, with the stall I have, I can't tell any loss in top end at all. But I can tell an increase in low and mid range power on the initial launch.
6) Would you consider 3400 to be too high or perfect for a moderate enthusiates?
Also, remember that when I say a TRUE stall of 3400, that is NOT what you'll see on your tach. True stall will usually be 600-800 lower than what you'll see on your tach. I saw 2400 when I first installed it. After putting 500 plus miles on the TC, I think I see 2500 now. It will only loosen up 100 or 200 rpm. So I can't expect it to get any looser. My stock was 1700-1800 and it raised to 2400-2500 overnight. Protorque would have only put it around 2100.
That would have sucked! hahaAlso, Andre was shooting for a 3400 true stall, but it appears that came very close. I think i got around 3200 true stall. If I want to make my car a ***** out racing NA car, I will raise the stall enough to where I'll see 3000 ON MY TACH. That would be alot nicer. But I will lose that top end.
More than likely, I will keep the stall I have and that will allow me to easily spray nitrous out of the hole since I flash to 2500 NA. With spraying nitrous, it will flash a little higher since I'm putting a LOT more torque to the wheels instantly. Jime has a stock TC and he is able to spray out of the hole. It only stays at 2200 to 3K for just a split second, so it's ok. Just don't spray in 5th gear at 50mph. haha Wow! I typed a lot. I just hope it helps out anybody that's thinking about a torque converter upgrade. Too bad nobody can actually use this site to it's full potential... search is down.
03-13-2004, 07:40 PM
#17
Originally Posted by internetautomar
a good TC builder can raise the stall as high as you want. it's only a matter of addjusting the fin angle.
Don't ask how I know this,
Don't ask how I know this,
03-13-2004, 07:49 PM
#18
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=288373
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=288371
Just for research purposes, I want anybody reading this thread to refer to the threads above. They are both about my TC experiences.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=288371
Just for research purposes, I want anybody reading this thread to refer to the threads above. They are both about my TC experiences.
03-13-2004, 08:47 PM
#19
Aaron...dude i'm not supporting protorque or anything...but you emailed them and they gave you a standard email back. why didn't you call them instead? when i called them they were very helpful and informative. i wouldn't want to blame a company for sending you a standard email back if they get 100s of emails a day and 90% of they are people who knows nothing about TCs and what they do.
anywho...too high of a stall will kill your MPG greatly and will kill your "around town" driving...because now before your car will actually move you'll have to wait for the TC to spool up the RPMs.
anywho...too high of a stall will kill your MPG greatly and will kill your "around town" driving...because now before your car will actually move you'll have to wait for the TC to spool up the RPMs.
03-14-2004, 12:10 AM
#20
Originally Posted by DanNY
Aaron...dude i'm not supporting protorque or anything...but you emailed them and they gave you a standard email back. why didn't you call them instead? when i called them they were very helpful and informative. i wouldn't want to blame a company for sending you a standard email back if they get 100s of emails a day and 90% of they are people who knows nothing about TCs and what they do.
anywho...too high of a stall will kill your MPG greatly and will kill your "around town" driving...because now before your car will actually move you'll have to wait for the TC to spool up the RPMs.
anywho...too high of a stall will kill your MPG greatly and will kill your "around town" driving...because now before your car will actually move you'll have to wait for the TC to spool up the RPMs.
My drivability didn't get any worse. It does slip a little more and partial is SLIGHTLY changed, but it's hard to tell the difference. But for my TC, I don't have to wait until it "spools" up. It just doesn't want to move as easy anymore. I expected it to be a lot worse. But it still revs just fine and drives fine at 1K to 1800 rpm. It just might require a little more gas than before.
As for gas mileage, I haven't seen any noticable difference yet. I just need more testing time on that note.
03-14-2004, 07:08 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Yeah you're right. I have no room to talk about Protorque. But I'm happy with Edge Racing.
My drivability didn't get any worse. It does slip a little more and partial is SLIGHTLY changed, but it's hard to tell the difference. But for my TC, I don't have to wait until it "spools" up. It just doesn't want to move as easy anymore. I expected it to be a lot worse. But it still revs just fine and drives fine at 1K to 1800 rpm. It just might require a little more gas than before.
As for gas mileage, I haven't seen any noticable difference yet. I just need more testing time on that note.
My drivability didn't get any worse. It does slip a little more and partial is SLIGHTLY changed, but it's hard to tell the difference. But for my TC, I don't have to wait until it "spools" up. It just doesn't want to move as easy anymore. I expected it to be a lot worse. But it still revs just fine and drives fine at 1K to 1800 rpm. It just might require a little more gas than before.
As for gas mileage, I haven't seen any noticable difference yet. I just need more testing time on that note.
quick example...if you're rolling to a red light at an intersection...the light turns green and you want to speed up. the time when you hit the gas and the car moving increases. it might not be noticable to some but i can say i felt the slight lag time.
LOL..you even said it might require more gas than before...that will definitely mean more gas used. trust me..you'll notice the difference in your MPG.
03-14-2004, 11:32 AM
#22
Originally Posted by DanNY
not sure how it is on the VE..but on the VG the torque is big off the line. with a higher stall you feel the lag in the time of you hitting the gas and the car hauling...but when it does haul it moves.
quick example...if you're rolling to a red light at an intersection...the light turns green and you want to speed up. the time when you hit the gas and the car moving increases. it might not be noticable to some but i can say i felt the slight lag time.
LOL..you even said it might require more gas than before...that will definitely mean more gas used. trust me..you'll notice the difference in your MPG.
quick example...if you're rolling to a red light at an intersection...the light turns green and you want to speed up. the time when you hit the gas and the car moving increases. it might not be noticable to some but i can say i felt the slight lag time.
LOL..you even said it might require more gas than before...that will definitely mean more gas used. trust me..you'll notice the difference in your MPG.
But the partial throttle response is barely noticable. You only have to give a SLIGHT amount of added throttle to move the car the same. Yes, that would give worse gas mileage, but I know while cruising I will have better gas mileage b/c it locks up much lower than with the stock TC. On the other hand, since I do more city driving than highway, I should notice worse gas mileage like you said.
About your example, I agree. It's not that noticable, but of course I can notice a difference in lag time. Wide open throttle response is increased a lot. Partial throttle response is decreased some, but not a lot.
03-14-2004, 12:19 PM
#23
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,807
I remember that before I ordered my protorque TC, that I filled out their specs sheet. Then they called me back with a part number that would fit my application. Now I didn't go as hardcore as Aaron did but there was a difference with the TC. Getting off the line was way easier than before. Protorque can make a TC with more stall but it depends on what the customer wants.
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