jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone make a throttle body spacer for our car? If so, what good would if say I already have a CAI that lengthens the intake anyway? Does it make an even bigger difference because it is on the other side of the throttle body than the CAI?

«§»Craig B«§»

iTrader: (5)

nope, no spacer

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Actually MaDMaX024 is making them.

Personally I dont think there is going to be much of a difference at all. There are gains when they are used in cars after the fuel has been added (like a carb or TBI). If anything it might get you alittle more low end.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Why would that make a difference? IMHO it would allow the air/fuel to de-atomize and start to pool in the intake manifold

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I'm not entirely sure why it works the way it does. I've heard of it helping fuel atomization, but I really haven't done enough research into the theory and such behind it.

I do know that with a 1" spacer on the mustang it pulls harder. I was going to put it on the Jimmy, but it requires a different design. I was going to make one but decided not to (because its the Jimmy, lol )

A friend and I did some experimenting with his 89 K1500 4x4 stepside. We put stock size tires on it (I forget the actual size, but they were about 31") and took the spacer off then went for a drive. Then put the his 35's back on and went for a drive, it didn't pull nearly as hard, then put the spacer back on and wa-la, it felt like it had the stock size tires back on it. Well that was back when it was TBI, since then we built up an L98 for it and did a TPI conversion on it.


It just seems like in all the TPI cars I've seen, the before/after dynos for them really dont show them doing squat. There are one or two that seem to pick up a few extra ponies, but generally they dont do squat.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

My buddy has a 4.7 dakota and the it's set up the same way as our cars, fuel injected with fuel added through individual injectors I believe, and it should work the same. Most of the guys on the dakota forum have the spacer and the CAI, but I need to check on individual gains. I'm just wondering because all the spacer does is make a longer passage for the air right? Doesn't the CAI do that already? The only thing that I can think is that it is different because it adds length after the throttle plate instead of before it like the CAI.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I think the 4.7 guys pick up alittle. I know the 5.2/5.9 guys its a shot in the wind, I've never seen a dyno for them, but some guys say they get absolutely nothing but a little whistle or something, other guys say there is alittle improvement, but not worth the money.

BTW, Does you friend have an Intense Performance CAI? It would be funny if he did, I was offered a job there about a year ago, the only reason I didn't take it was the commute. The guy is really cool though.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Where's "Intense Performance"?

edit: you can't commute to Des Moines? Maybe 15 min away?

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

ah, maybe he moved, it used to be more like 45mins away, plus at the time my Daily Driver was the Durango, so it would have been alittle spendy.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

No actually he doesn't have any mods on it yet, but I'm helping him along. He has an '01 dakota quad cab.
As far as Intense Performance, are you guys saying it is in Des Moines, IA or is there one over there too? Des Moines, IA is a bit more than a 15 min drive from GA I think.

MaDMaX024

the idea is to block the heat and keep the intake charge cool. someone with search privilages should look up my initial thread about it so i dont have to restate how i dont care about anyones reasoning about how little time the air spends in the TB.
what shawn said about helping low-end is true, it should help low-end. my manifold spacer (the type that i owe shawn along with the TB) helped with low end TREMENDOUSLY and the airflow was all kinds of screwed up (the manifolds didnt match the spacer holes what-so-ever but now its all matched up and going back in soon). i'll be making a TB spacer within the next week or so but wont have reactions for probably another month or two (other projects on the car keep me from driving it) and even then i wont be able to tell what just the TB spacer did since i'm lazy and dont feel like taking it off and putting it back on again. i know it'll help somehow and thats all i really care about. if you want a TB spacer i can make one for ya but its gonna be $30 shipped anywhere in the continental US (takes ~2 weeks from when i recieve the money until i ship it, depending on how long it takes my supplier to get the material).
the biggest gain with the throttle body is to bypass the coolant lines (which is pretty idiot proof), the second is to port and polish it. the last thing would obviously be the spacer. every little bit helps, right guys?

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

manifold spacer, like between the upper and lower manifold? Where do I get one of those, and how big are the gains. TB spacer, I will think about that, thanks for the offer, I will probably take you up on that deal. I heard that bypassing the coolant lines doesn't make a difference though. You hear alot of things on this forum though and maybe you have had a good experience with it. TB port match and polishing, I may do that in the near future too.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

the guy above you makes them

Damonb

HAHAHAH, TB spacer on a fuel injected car, thats funny... gotta love how people are still trying to make money off of something that helped out Carbs in the old days. Oh well, a good sales pitch will sell anything.

Luquire

check this page out about an xterra.
http://www.reaganperformance.com/Mer...ory_Code=PXTBS

MaDMaX024

yes between the upper and lower. yes i make them, $65 shipped. there is an issue with them though. when i made mine it made it too big (gasket matched), so the best i can do is make the holes center but small so you'll have to match it to your runners.
as far as the coolant goes, you wont notice a power difference, you'll notice it takes a whole lot longer to get heatsoaked. that was also the idea behind the manifold spacer but it just happened that i gained a noticeable amount of low end power from it.
besides, with the coolant bypass if you dont personally notice anything you've wasted $2.00 on parts and like 20 minutes of your time, its not exactly a big deal.

MaDMaX024

i'd doubt you'd gain a whole lot of power from my spacer since its only 1/4" thick but it defiantely slows down the transfer of heat exponentially. lets put it this way, before my manifold spacer it would take ~30 minutes for the upper plenum to be about as warm as the valve cover (my internal thermometer doesnt get specific). now it takes several hours if it even gets to the same temp at all, i'd say that works pretty damn well for only being 1/4" thick and having the heat still transfer through the bolts.

i dont need to defend myself, if someone wants to listen to you thats fine, i made mine, mine works and thats all i care about. i'd make more as a service to those looking to try new things but i'm not losing anything by being the only one with it, i have alot of other 1-off mods that i could probably sell but choose not to (mostly because i like being unique).

as far as me making money, i'm making between $0-$5 per spacer which i think is more than fair considering whats involved.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Pat,
He's talking about the TB spacer, not the plenum spacer .

The plenum spacer lengthens the runners abit, thats why you see more low end.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

It helps on a TBI motor

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Ok madmax, what is the spacer for the plenum made of? Any you say it needs adjustment, what can I adjust it with, I don't have a dremel or anything, but maybe it's about time to get one. I'm assuming I just need to take off a bit of material. I need to take the plenum off anyway to do the KS so maybe I can do it along with that. So $95 for the intake manifold spacer and throttle body spacer shipped right? How much would you estimate this will get me at the wheels, realisticly?

MaDMaX024

i refuse to make any claims, i have alot of stuff done so my gains are NOT a good estimate. i figure 5HP/ftlb is the least possible gain to notice on the buttdyno.
the spacer is made of a plastic material that doesnt like to transfer heat (no its not phenolic of any kind, my supplier only sells that in huge quanitities which i will never ever need).
as far as adjustment goes, yes a dremel or a drill will work just fine. its not the easiest thing to do if you've never done any kind of porting before, so i'd say get a small piece of wood and practice on that. if you take too much material off, its not a good thing(aaron92se warns me about dips in airflow all the time). depending on how close i can get my spacer to the proper size, i might just use sand paper as the dremel takes off alot of material very quickely. this plastic shaves very easily with the bit i have (tungsten carbide swirl type) so i cant go too much too fast or i'll have to re-port my throttle body(yes i know you're talking about your intake manifold). just mark everything and take your time with it. ~4 hours isnt an unreasonable amount of time to spend perfecting it if you're matching the intake manifold to it. dont be fooled, its not a simple bolt on mod but it does help alot.
another thing i forgot to mention, EGR tube reinstallation is a bit tricky.
seems like you're very willing to learn, email me and we'll talk more before i sell you anything. i dont want to see you burn through a spacer and have to throw it away.

HTPerformance

iTrader: (6)

Does the one you are making have the screw type threading that the AIRAID one does?

Looks like it would increase atomization by inducing spin in the intake manifold, that seems to be where the power gains would be... Not just thermal resistivity (heatsoak)

Granted that should play a part, but...atomization is the key to fuel economy, and a bit more torque/HP.

I have no idea how well the injectors spray the fuel, if they are aspirated or not...

Brian

MaDMaX024

nothing special here, its only 1/4" thick so i dont know how much it would help, but now that you mention it maybe i'll swirl my spacer before i put it back together.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Pat, that *might* help the plenum spacer (I probably wouldn't try it with out a flow machine though ), but it wont do jack for the TB one.

The airaid spacer is a prime example of what I was saying earlier, it wont do jack if its above the injectors/where the fuel is mixed with the intake.

The reason why the Plenum spacer works, is because it's lengthening the runners, which is completely different than adding a throttle body spacer. It would work if there was fuel mixed in the air then it went threw the spacer.

Heck I think I even told Pat he would gain more low end when he put the spacer on (at the time, his main goal was to keep the upper intake from getting so hot IIRC).


short story : I was talking to one of my high school shop teachers friends during lunch one day and he was telling me about how they used to put propellers from R/C air planes into the middle of a TB spacer they machined out. He said they got awesome results from that (but the engine was carbed). Just thought it was cool.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Those propellers must have really been moving fast. Wouldn't be a bad project to try to put it in the cold air intake somewhere, but I'm not sure how fast the air is moving through that CAI in the first place, so it might not make a difference. Why don't you try to build one of those for me along with my TB spacer Madmax

MaDMaX024

meh, i'll swirl both depending on how difficult it is, it cant hurt, right?
as far as gaining low end, it lengthens the runners which was an after-thought. the initial plan was to keep the motor "fresh". ever kind of get on the gas before it gets warm? that power is what i wanted to keep with the spacers, coolant bypass and waterpipe mod(waterpipe mod: wrap water pipe with header-wrap).
maybe i should just take my spacer out since i have too much low-end for my current tires...nahh its pretty bad@$$ to mat it anywhere in first gear and spin all through and most of the way through second.
as far as the TB spacer goes, its purpose is to further block heat and lengthen the intake tract a little more. if it doesnt do anything, oh well its not like i can make anything but TB spacers out of the material i have left, i have enough for two and yes shawn one of them is yours.
as far as me putting a propeller in the spacer, nope.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

no no no, NO NO NO, no propeller thingy. It wont do jack. cripes, carbed cars.

I still want a TB spacer.

Also, wrapping the coolant pipe is a cool idea, butttttt coolant flows threw the lower intake so

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

Good call Mr. Gone, I'm doing my knock sensor in a few weeks so that will definitely be something I can do. I'm going to do a bunch of stuff at once, so far: changing KS harness, wrapping coolant pipe, intake manifold spacer, throttle body spacer, and I'd like to port the TB and match the intake and TB spacer when I get that. Can anyone think of anything else to do while I'm down there?

MaDMaX024

it helps i'm sure. babysteps shawn, babysteps

MadMax92

I didn't take the time to read all of this but tb spacers are made for carbeurated and throttle body injected vehicles to give the air/fuel mixture a longer time to mix. putting it on this car will show no gains, I don't oppose trying it but it really wont make a bit of difference. but if you are still going to do it please don't spend much money on it.

MaDMaX024

i cant really say anything about the TB spacer as i havent tried it yet, and when i do install it i wont have anything to compare it to as i've ported my intake manifold at the same time. i'll consider putting it back together and then installing the spacer but i've had enough downtime with this car, i just want to drive it.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

I'd be willing to check it out when I get everything put on. It won't be for a few weeks because I need to wait for the parts to get here and then actually do the work. I don't know how accurate the butt dyno is but I'll make sure to let everyone know if I can see a difference. I think it would be worth the $30 just to answer the question for the whole .org. Like I said on one post, people on the dakota forum ALL do it and their motors are pretty much set up the same when it comes to the intake and wot not.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

The 4.7l is similar, except its 16v.

The magnums (pushrod) really dont get jack with them.

Pat, I still want one none the less

MaDMaX024

j00 get nothing till my box o'goodies shows up
whats the deal with that anyway? tracking number???

rosamax, i deposited the money into my other bank account, i'll order on friday or as soon as it actually gets deposited and i have access to it

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)