been wondering this for a while, but i thought I'd actually ask on maxima.org to get a definate answer. anyways my gf just got a new 4th gen maxima, 95 gxe 5 speed. anyways I was wondering, how do those compare to the third gen se's? to be more specific a 92se 5 speed. which one is faster, which one is nicer; any differences between the two (ie performance suspension). not that it matters, but out of curiousity. btw, sorry if this has been brought up before, but I do make the effort to see if something has been posted by reading many pages before hand.

 

I had a '94 SE 5-speed and LOVED IT! They both should be just as fast. The 3rd gen SE w/ the VE is a MUCH nicer car IMO. The 3rd gen was the last of the true 4 door sports car (independent rear suspension), until they brought it back w/ the 6th gen.

 

yay score one for mE!! I like knowing that i made a good decision every now and then

 

erm hey actually that brings up another question, whats the difference in the rear independant suspension? is it that noticable?

 

It's like night and day. The 4th and 5th gens have rear multi-link beam (sucks!). I love my '02, but i would give anything for my old 3rd gen suspension.

 

Solid rear axle can be good. It depends. The AE86 has a solid rear axle and it does just fine. The main difference that I have felt is handling on un even terrain. Otherwise I do not notice much more from my 94 SE 5-spd and my friends 95 SE 5-spd. The car's have its similarities and their differences. The 3rd gen's over all chassis quality is better. But the 4th gen has the better engine. The fourth gen has the Vq which is an aluminum block. So what it comes down to is the 3rd gen has the variable intake, variable valve timing a limited slip and independent rear suspension. The 4th gen has the better block and OdbII, which is good if you want to hook up your pda or something to your car. As for which one is faster, It depends. Stock I'd have to say the 4th gen is faster. But when My friend and I both got intake it was a different story. As soon as my secondary’s kicked in when I was in 2nd gear I was gone. Now he has a mevi and all those goodies so he’s way beyond me now

 

Why not just drive them both and find out for yourself? Everyone here has their own preference, most of the guys, and girls who have owned 3rd gens usually vote 3rd gen on the polls which is cool, but they still have their reasons for buying a newer car.

Cheocwa, You can still hook up lappys to our ECU, its not as simple as just plugging in an OBD-II connector but still. It has been done before

 

Plug in: Can u give a direction where to look at; somebody must have some info on that?



(The 3gen chassis is super handling on snowy uneven roads, at any speed! ...and that with stock all & granpa shocks. Cannot say the same of the 02, feels like old olds, out of touch)

 

The only thing that I like better on the 4th gen is the spoiler. It is not soft and doesn't want to fall apart and fall off.

 

I think it was somewere inside the car near the stearing wheel. I saw this thing at autozone yesterday that plugs right in to the OBdII conection and records RPM, HP, Speed,(I think had a fuel map too) thought it was pretty sweet cuz you can diagnose your own engine codes with it, also erase them(reset) for like $70 bucks.

I have a 3rd gen, and I dont like 4th gen rear tail lights.

 

hahaha - i never understood that "foamy" spoiler. Any time my friends came anywhere near it, i would yell at them to get away!!

 

Yea... i was ready for something new. When i sold my '94, it was absolutely MINT condition. It had 155K on it, and the body/engine/interior were perfect. Other than one injector issue (of course) there was nothing wrong. The paint (still original) was glossier than the '02 i traded it in for. I still regret trading it in - the dealer didn't give me much for it.

I stick my head in the 3rd gen forum once in a while just to bring back memories.

My sis is still driving my old '90 GXE w/ 235K on it though. Durable as they get guys!

 

ah, very cool. thanks guys. so quick question; since it was brought up, what components are needed to hook up a laptop to the ecu, and what port on the laptop is used? what all can you do by hooking you laptop up to the ecu? (talking mostly on the 3rd gen)

 

I agree with Cheocwa, the 3rd gen and 4th gens both have their high points that he mentioned. I did like the handling on my 3rd gen more, even on stock struts after 140,000 compared to my 4th gen with new oem stuff. I prefer the 4th gen mainly because of the VQ, my VE never had any issues but I always worried about something going wrong with it because so many other people have had problems with VTC's and other things. I think a 3rd gen with a VQ 5spd would rock, it would be 100lbs lighter and have a much more reliable motor with alot more torque, plus I think the black on black 92-94 SE's are some of the nicest looking maxima's out there.

 

Hi guys,

the 6gen has multi-link independent rear suspension

 

Hiya kiyakerz, I live in Tempe and have a 93 SE 5spd. I like it a lot. It reminds me of my VG-engined 87 SE 5spd, but with MUCH more torque.

I'd probably guess that the 4Gs are marginally faster than VE 3Gs. 3Gs are pretty light though (they seem pretty heavy up front though), most likely lighter than 4Gs.

I would imagine, never having owned one, that the VQ30 in your gf's car is less tempermental than VE30s. As you may or may not know, VEs LOVE to eat injectors, as do 3G VGs.

The 4G may have the less-advanced suspension, but it is cheaper to fix than the 3G's independent setup. It's mostly give-n-take between the two models.

As for foamy spoilers, I like them myself.

 

i have owned both and i call it dead even.......they both have their pros and cons.....if my 4th gen was 5spd i would def say the 4th gen is better.....but i cant

 

I was reading through the NA forum and it reminded me of another reason to love fourth gens:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=345720

I knew about the FI options for the VQ but I hadn't really read much about the NA stuff and I'm pretty impressed. Now if only it was easy to put one in a 3rd gen...

And Slamnasty here is the approximate weights for our cars:

3rd Generation: approx 3100 lbs.
4th Generation: approx 3000 lbs.
5th Generation: approx 3200 lbs.

The 4th gen is actually lighter than the 3rd gen due to the aluminum block. Mine's lighter than most becuase I don't have leather power seats or a sunroof, kind of a nice feature

 

4th gens get those cool remote window roll-down feature on the key fob

 

Who cares about the 100lbs, it isnt going to play much of a factor.

 

yeah!! what if Fat Albert decided to race a 3rd gen tweaker in his 4th gen? mwahahhaa

 

if you are a true driver weight is everything....any autoX or "weekend warrior" track driver will tell you that weight is the greatest factor in all around performance, that and balance...

the 3rd gen has the IRS, LSD, VIM, and VVT...
the 4th gen on the other hand in america got jipped...it was just as much a "4DSC" overseas where they had the VIM, and LSD and such...personally I enjoy not having those things on my car stock, as I had the fun of adding them and adding much better stuff than the stock would have been such as an aftermarket LSD and tuning my VIM to where I want it, etc.

I would say if your going for the sportier car stock, the 3rd gen is the way to go...but if you want a car with overall better balance, larger interior and other amenities, and lower weight with the godly "VQ", then the 4th gen is the way to go....just add the VIM and a quaife and your set...! stock for stock, when I raced a 3rd gen back in the day...5spd vs 5spd (both SE's, 94 vs. 95)...even with my USIM and a friend in the car which ways about 200lbs (chubby fellow I know)...and we both had a half talk of gas, I walked him till we shut down...so weight and torque is a huge factor, but nonetheless, having a VIM and VVT and LSD from the factory is enticing (too bad nissan decided to give us americans the crappy version of the 4th gen)...I could take or leave the IRS...as I have seen and known countless 4th gen's that have their suspension all modded out and dialed in, running great times on the autoX courses and are side by side with cars that they really shouldn't be on the track...(so they do a lot better than they get credit for--probably mainly b/c of their low weight)...

all in all it's a toss up...3rd gen is a better car if your going to leave it stock...the 4th gen has a much better aftermarket backing and knowledge base which makes it a lot more fun to "soup-up"....

 

The valves dont actually change, its just the cams.

no factory 4DSC sticker no care

Wierd, I think the third gen has more room than the 4th or 5th, atleast for the driver. The 5th gen has slightly more head room but it isn't much.

The 3rd gen still has a pretty stout aftermarket. Granted not as many manufactures making the same thing like the 4th gen but it's still there. Heck we even have 2 different manufactures for our FSB's, last time I looked into it, 4th/5th gens only option is to replace the bushings of the stocker

 

VVT was just an abreviation I used to type faster, technically nissan's is called CVTCS (continously variable timing control system)...a "cam phasing" technology...ie. variable duration of valve open or close...the cams don't change either that would be vtec....swapping to the higher lift cam lobes ("hot cams" as they like to call them)..I think you mean how the cams go about their business is altered...



4th gen definitely has more room than my mom's 3rd gen did...!! but that is probably b/c it has that beam rear suspension...so they were able to squeeze a little more space in the interior...I would rather get a LTB than a FSB any day of the week...not to mention that really our FF platforms should be understeering even worse in some ways if you throw on an overly large FSB on...making things worse in some ways...

 

Well really on our motors the duration isnt even changed, just the cam timing. If they made the 'lifters' in our valvetrain adjustable then you could change the duration and lift. Sucks that they didn't do that .


For room, I found the e-brake lever kind of gets in the way and the overall leg room lacking in the later gens (atleast for the driver). As far as the FSB, I didn't notice the car becoming more understeer happy .

 

Its not continously cam phasing. Its just a two-step on-off system. IIRC Its called Nissan Variable Timing Control (NVTC). From a drivers point of view, both the 3rd and 4th gen seem as though they are designed for a larger driver, whereas in the 5th gen, the seating position, sportier A-piller/windshield angle, deeper dash and thick center console makes it seem like a tighter place to drive in.

In interior volume (pure cubic inches) the 4th gen is larger and the 5th gen is the largest.

 

right it changes the duration of the valves...by changing the timing of the actual camshaft..you slow down or speed up the cams and hence the time the cam lobes are pushing on the lifters...

on the newer nissan's it's called CVTCS....the first "C" is for continously...on most newer nissan's the on off effect is rather a choice they made to initiate that program or map...on the new spec v's I know it's 3500 rpm's as on many other nissans...

simple physics dictate that in suspension tuning...increasing the lateral connection or rigidity between the two sides in the front, will incurr more understeer....and is usually balanced out by bumping up the strut settings in the back or placing a larger RSB in the rear...
most likely the difference in balance or bias that the FSB incurred was so minimal you wouldn't notice the difference exept for a professional driver....

 

Wow Mike how did you find this thread? He was the one who walked on me when we were both stock. Mike is right lighter is always better. One could compensate for the weight by putting on wider tires but that would never have the endurance of a lighter car with thinner tires. Obviously if the car is lighter it is faster in all ways, turning stopping and going!

 

In a true spirit of a 3rd genner,

its 3rd gen or no gen

 

That is true. Many people on this forum get their 3rd gen from their parents as a hand me down. In most cases they are not much of a maxima enthusiast but they just want to do some simple mods and keep their car running. Don't get me wrong there are those few who are just as much as of an enthusiast as those of us who spent our own money to buy one. I have to admit that I wanted a 5th gen (00 or 01) at first but when I realized I did not have enough money I wanted a 4th gen. At the time there were none in good condition that were 5-spd. I looked and found that there was one 3rd gen in all of LA that was in perfect condition. It was love at first sight all 6k of it! It really comes down to personal preference but there are less and less good condition 5-spd 3rd gen’s.

-Larry

 

but thats the thing, it doesn't actually change the speed of the camshaft, it only changes the timing of it.

holla!
That sounds familiar hehehehhe

Yeah, most of the time that is the text book case with the 3rd gen (and is becoming more common with the 4th gen (compared to 3 years ago). It's kind of funny, my Dad bought his 2000 because he liked my car, but needed something newer.

 

that's what I meant though...it changes the timing of the camshaft...it would be nearly impossible to change the speed of it...I was running on 2.5hrs. of sleep when I wrote that...thnx for citing my mistake mr gone...you know what I meant though...

I think what I meant was by varying the speed at which the camshaft rotates...as a viewer at rest woudl see it in a cross-sectional model...by varying the timing of the camshaft a viewer would see the camshaft in effect in slow motion "slowing down or speeding up" in it's rotations...

 

I just wanted to clarify thats all. There are alot of people who just lurk and get false information, thats all.

I dont really understand what you mean by viewer and such though .

 

well...everytime in the past when I try to explain cam phasing vs. cam changing and such...they don't understand....so I explain it to them as if they were looking at the engine in a cross-sectional model and watching it happen...I find they understand a lot better....just like nissan has flash movies on their site that show how their VDC system works and their VIM works and such...by visually showing you what happens in the engine and at what rpm/engine condition...

 

wow this thread is really off topic. Anyways. I have owned a 95 SE 5spd and a 91 SE 5spd. Even with the 160 hp motor the 91 feels more capable, better built and it even has a nicer interior. The 95 has a hell of a motor though! Man that thing sounds awesome with just a intake and catback. I could listen to gearchanges all day.

 

now you need to try a VE and then you'll swear off / at the 4th gen

 

I wouldn't say I would swear off the 4th gen. Even though mid 90's Japanese economic collapse/cost cutting made the 4th gen a little economical it still has what I consider one of the nicest sedans of that period (with a little help from clear corners, and suspension, of course.) And don't get me started on 3rd gen foglights vs 4th gen.

 

Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick...."hey is there a bomb under your hood?"

"Uh, no that's my well-built 3rd gen with a VE30DE, 190hp, 190ft/lbs...uh...well when the VTC's work it's got 190...and, uh when it's not suffering from heat soak, so yeah I guess it is kind of a bomb... "

Third gen = good handling, troublesome motor, not much of an aftermarket
Fourth gen= fair handling, excellent motor, decent aftermarket

That kind of summarizes it, I modded my 3rd gen as much as I could for power (y-pipe, fidanza flywheel, CAI, ground wire kit) and it was a fun car but couldn't do much for power after that. The 4th gen has the same things available plus the various all-motor options and forced induction options. We have a LSD available to us, MEVI and DE-K manifold, Supercharger, Turbo, Coilovers, etc. In my opinion the 4th gen has more potential due to a more reliable and powerful motor, as well as having more mods available. If anyone wants to disagree about the potential of the 4th gen versus the 3rd gen VE then show me the most modded VE and we can compare it to any of the top ten 4th gens and it would prove my point. I'm really not trying to dis the 3rd gen guys in any way, I'm trying to see it from both sides but I don't see how you can't lean towards the 4th gen if you want to mod a car. The VE may be comparible to the VQ with basic bolt-ons IF it's running right, but beyond basic bolt-ons your kind of stuck after that. I personally got bored with my VE, was concerned about it's reliability, and didn't have the ability to design a turbo kit so I moved on. I give props to you guys who have done a good job modding your 3rd gen, but you would have to agree that your options run out after a while, there's my $.02

 

...even with the cost cutting which really didn't take full effect till around 97/98 for nissan...the 95/96 period was more about closing a plant in japan and cutting jobs...later they started to trim some corners...the things left out in the US spec 4th gen was done to keep the target MSRP down...due to major automotive inflation that catalyzed in 95...

even so, the '95 maxima was import car of the year (only import car of the year b/c motor trend and all the other magazines always voted on domestic and import of the year...unlike now, where they only pick one---"car of year")...the 3rd gens were never import car of the year...even though it easily should have been....it's just the competition in 95 and up was rather weak...and to tell you the truth, the maxima was the highest quality, best performing sedan in 95...even with any cost cutting, it is still amazingly high quality compared to everything of the time...(if you think about it, all the money was put into the engine/powerplant, just like nissan's does to date and gets flak for it from all the magazines even today....for skimping on other things)...

all I know is cost cutting or not....we can compare my car to a 40K dollar 2000 Audi S4 my brother owns...with only 30K miles on it...I have a service portfolio 1/10 the thickness of his...my car only cost $5500, the leather is in better condition than his...my interior makes less squeaks and rattles, and my Bose systems sounds just as clean as his....and I can still hang with him with just bolts ons (he has intake, exhuast, and chip) and was able to walk on him pretty good when he was stock and I had all my bolt-ons!

 

I'm willing to wager that over 75% of the VEs never developed this alleged VTC tick.
and those that have were subject to improper maintennace.
Bolt ons are for people who lack creativity and have more money than brains.
now go back to playing with your minivan