well i obviously dont understand this whole EZ out thing. i cant find left-hand drill bits ANYWHERE. thats just the start. all the easy outs have right-hand threads... how does that makes sense? wouldn't i want counter-clockwise threads so the force of screwing in the ez out is in the direction of removing the stud? am i retarded or something?

how far into the stud do i need to drill have a good grip?
i went through two fancy-pants high carbon bits and only got 1/5-1/6" in. i tried on of the ez out in there to see if it would stick and the tip snapped off first thing. it occured without much force, so dont buy 'hanson' stud removers. pos :

luckily it is only .75 cm or so in there. hopefully i can dremel around it and pull it out.

then i'll have to heli-coil i guess. i read around and there's not much info about using them. i would drill out the whole stud mount, then insert this doo-dad and voila?! anybody know the details? sizes?
thanks
tom

 

I have yet to snap an EZ-out in the head, and I've used Hanson bits for a long time. they're one of the better companies out there for taps, dies, and other tools like these.

for drill bits, use COBALT or better. don't waste your time with high carbon stuff. A cobalt bit is about $1 each and you can get them at most machine/fabrication shop supply places.. grab your yellowpages and call around.

 

what!!! crap! i must be doing something quite wrong. i was really suprised to see just the little tip snap off... hmm.... maybe it was because the hole was so shallow.
i still dont understand how the ez-out is going to work, if it screws in clockwise, what is going to give resistance when it unscrews counter-clockwise? especially enough to remove the stud...

also - if anyone has done helicoils, please chime in, i'd appreciate it.
thanks matt,
tom

 

for the ez out to work well you should really drill untill the end of the stud or close to it.

 

helicoil...basically you drill and tap a hole. then you use the tool to thread in the actual helicoil...i believe you would use loctite (not sure) on it and once it's set you release the tool and like a spring it will uncoil a little adding pressure to the sides....at that point the thread is restored and you can just screw in the stud.

EZ-out...you drill a hole...then feed in the ez out CCW. at a certain point you'll feel resistance. the ez out is not tight....you can slowly make an attempt to back it out w/ a tap handle or just use a adj wrench. since the EZ out is so tapered the more you turn...the more it will dig itself deeper and try to unscrew the slug out. that's why i mentioned that you need to drill deeper than the EZ out because if the ez out hits bottom then it'll snap when you turn it.

good luck

 

thanks danny - i just got some cobalt bits and i'm going to retry to tap and pull the stud before i resort to helicoils, i'll post how it goes.
t

 

another tip is to not burn up your bit.

Keep it oiled and dont put too much pressure on it. Let the bit do the work. The studs are not that hard and should drill out fairly easy. My guess is that you didnt keep the bit oiled and it burned up.

Also I always drill all the way through the stud. You will know because it will go through it and then a little space then the head. Dont drill into the head though.

another tip is to use a small bit then step up to a larger one. Drill the stud out as large as you can before it hits the threads so you can use the larges ez out you can.

good luck

 

thanks - that's a good idea, moving up on the bits.
i still can't understand though... i looked again and all my ez outs have right-hand threads, how can i put them in ccw? i looked around and didn't see any with left hand threads
tom

 

I'm 99% sure your EZ outs are left hand thread.. show us a pic of them, or a part number or something.

 

i just screwed one in all the way, CW. i'll get a picture in a minute
t

 

I dont know if you have ez outs or not then. EZ outs look like a drill bit of sorts. Sure you can screw it in CW but its got teath that grab if you turn it CCW. Now that you have it in there just turn it CCW like you are taking the bold out and it will bite and grab the bolt.

I have never heard of anyone having so much trouble understanding how ez outs work. I am not flaming you here but its just so hard for me to understand how you are having so much trouble.

Anyway good luck with it.

 

Do they look like this?
http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdspec06.html

 

oh crap.... please tell me i wasn't using the entirely wrong tool. these are all clockwise!!! there were no other ones!!! let the flaming begin! no really i dont mind at all, i'm not worried about being considered stupid

t

 

BWWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

You bought taps, not EZ outs!

sorry.. umm yeah, you got the wrong damn tool. Those are taps, used to cut threads into a hole you've drilled.

 

THANK GOD! I THOUGHT I WAS RETARDED - shows what pep boys knows...
"do you carry ez outs?"
"ez outs... what are those?"
"its for extracting studs...."
"oh yea! we got dose!"
*shows me to the taps*
*picks one up, (how the f*ck is this going to work?)
disaster ensues.

which one on that page you linked is best?
and thanks,
tom

 

doh...yep he gave you the wrong thing. Autozone I know carries them and I would think pep boys as well. Just go back to where you picked up the taps and they are probably in the same place. Usually they are in a pack of 4 or 5 (small to large).

I knew you couldnt have had so many problems with ez outs. It all makes sense now though.

The kind I have always used are the screw looking ones like on the page Matt posted. The others look interesting and should work just as well if not better so which ever ones you find should be fine.

 

I've used both before and like the screw-type better. the straight ones are a bit more difficult to use, as you have to tap them in with a hammer and if they break loose and come out, you're basically SOL. the screw-type will just keep digging in themselves until you break the stud loose.


also be sure to spray tons of penetrating lube in the stud hole before doing this stuff. it helps it break loose much easier.

what size was that tap you were using, btw? from the pics, it looks pretty large- I'm hoping you didn't ruin the hole... if you do, you'll just have to buy a helicoil kit and you'll have a tap just like that- only bigger- in the kit.

 

EZ outs look like this...notice the taper at the end of them. regular taps don't have that cone shape taper.

 

tip: dont forget to center punch berfore drilling!

 

ok! got them and the first stud came out so damn easily that it makes me mad. still having trouble getting the broken tap tip out of the other stud...

is there a metal bit that can handle that? its really not much in there, about half a centimeter now. the cobalt bits wont bite into it... it looks like its going to be a helicoil in the end. i made a really nice guide out of a broken stud as recommended and even with that, i cant get the bit to eat into it.

T

 

time to step up to carbide bits. they will eat through that HSS bit in there.

 

sometimes it's a PITA to do that because the stud usually break flush to the head and it's all rough. but if there's room for you to swing a hammer in that tight space then sure but not sure how much of an impact that it would make.

 

Maibe the guy from pep Boys thought they were EZ taps??

 

i'm looking around online and i find a lot of tungsten-carbide bits. is that an acceptable carbide? would sears or home depot or any available large-scale retailer carry them?
thanks a million danny
tom

 

The retailers won't have that stuff.. you're goign to have to go to a specialty shop most likely.

look for a tool supply shop in the yellow pages and basically just ask them what they have that will work. tell them you've broken off a tap inside a bolt and need to get all of it out..

At worst case, you can use a diamond covered grinding bit on a dremel and slowly grind it out. that'll take you forever though, but it does work. I've done it in the past.

 

damn, tool shop was basically blank in the yellow pages for my area. i guess i could buy online. carbide drill bit...


# 10 PIECE SET
# TUNGSTEN CARBIDE COMMERCIAL GRADE BITS
# DESIGNED FOR HIGH SPEED ROTARY TOOLS
# LARGER SIZES ONLY 1/8" THUR@ 1/4"
# SIZES-6.10.19,20,24,26,28,3.20,3.35,3.360 AND1/8
# ALL ON 1/8 INCH SHAFTS

how do these look? i will be in NYC this weekend if anyone knows a good tool shop?
thanks again,
tom

 

tom...what size are you looking for? i MIGHT be able to get u a carbide bit.

 

danny - anything above 9/64 and below 4mm

i'm being broad because i just want to drill this piece of tap out (which was 9/64) and then going to decide what to do from there. so i guess 9/64 or a little above (pref. a little above) would be best. i would appreciate that so much... i'll be in park slope but will have my gxe (and will travel)
let me know what you think
tom

 

i'll look tonight and see what i have...so it has to be bigger than 1/8.

 

any luck?
t

 

LOL. This is hilarious.

DON'T TRY TO DRILL WITH THE EASY OUT OR TAP!!!!! Just a heads up. If you snap one of those off deep in your royally screwed. Heli-coil works well for the exhaust stud. I used a couple on mine. The downer is the price. BTW if you keep burning up your drill bits you can dremel the hole out and then use a drill and tap (don't drill, just turn it slowly with a wrench) combo and then put the helicoil in. I had to do this.

For the dremel you'll want to use the ORANGE grinding bits. You'll chew through them, but they worked the best. Depending on front or rear head, you may want to consider a 90 degree attachment.

 

i don't find the humor in this...but ok.

you CAN drill out a tap or EZ out w/ a carbide bit. from your statement you have zero knowledge of machining.
you would use heli coil as a LAST resort condition...not what to use first.

you never use a drill or any machine w/ a tap...always use a correct tap handle...or an adj wrench.

 

i can get it...BUT keep in mind...

carbide is extremely fragile. if you do not have a steady hand or have a perfect drilling position i can bet it'll shatter.

go slow when drilling w/ carbide. keep it oiled and drill slowly...it's sharp enough to chew through anything...but you need to take your time because it's not as forgiving as a regular drill.

since you need a bit that small the chance of it shattering is high..i'll try to get u something bigger than 4mm just in case....definitely use some kind of angle guide because it'll go right through alum like hot knife through butter.

PM me tomorrow and i'll know if i have it definitely (in hand).

 

deyam... thanks so much dan. i just made a guide out of an old stud, which i can bore out better to fit the carbide bit, depending on how big it is. i've got a right-angle drill and steady hands (drilled the other one out through to the end without a guide). i'll PM you later, and again, thanks - do you like chocolate chip cookies?
t

 

"BWWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

You bought taps, not EZ outs!

sorry.. umm yeah, you got the wrong damn tool. Those are taps, used to cut threads into a hole you've drilled. " - MATT93SE

First off, a few others found the thread entertaining. So don't try and come down on just me if you don't find it humorous. Minty seems to have a great attitude about the fiasco and the way its presented is hilarious.

Second, don't flame me like I have no experience tapping or machining. You have no idea who I am or how much or little I've worked on cars. Let's in my young life I've owned: 1973 Monte Carlo, 1959 Chevy Biscayne, 1965 Mustang, Still own 1968 Mustang GT, 1989 Toyota SR5 Pickup, 1994 Ford F-150, 1992 F-150, 1992 Mustang Gt, 1992 Honda Accord DX, 1992 Honda Accord EX, 2 x 1990 Nissan Maxima SE, 2000 Saturn LW300. DO YOU THINK I MIGHT HAVE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WITH MACHINING, DRILLING, and TAPPING? If you want to think you're some hotshot mechanic that's cool, but don't misread a post and try to slam me. If Minty bought a tap thinking it was an EZ out, do you think my advice to him was off in any way? A lot of first time EZ out / Tap users put it in a drill. Then the tip snaps off deep in the hole. Now, I didn't say you couldn't drill the tap / EZ out out. I just said he would be royally screwed. and YES he would be. Have fun carbide drilling a tap out on a head without pulling the head. If he's lucky he'll be working on the left head. If he's working between the right head and the firewall he's pretty much going to have to pull that head. That said, Minty, take your time working on that.

Third, thanks for repeating my advice. Clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

dude, calm down.. your previous post was rather ambiguous, and you just repeated everything else the rest of us said in different words.. so pull your Manties out of their wad and go about your business... Dan and I are some of the last ones you want to p*** off on this board.

 

owning cars doesn't mean you know anything about machining. yeah you can hold a drill straight...what does that tell me? go you? any particular reason why you have to own that many cars? bad driver(s)? poor mainteance?

minty went w/ the advice of the guy at the part's counter...at no fault of his own because he wasn't familar w/ easy outs.

you said not to drill out the broken ez out...that's why i came back w/ my response..because you CAN drill out a broken ez out.

you said to helicoil it...what kind of advice is that? you helicoil when there's NOTHING else you can do...maybe in "your" expertise in owning all those cars you helicoil everything...maybe that's why you had to go through so many cars?..i don't know.

so holding a grinding bit to a small hole in the exhaust stud with a dremel would be the "correct" thing to do?

repeating your advice? seriously have you even read this thread? you repeated what everyone said...what you think you thought of it all by yourself? don't put the tap/ez out in the drill...yeah i mentioned that a few days ago.

please save the drama for someone else...just because you think it's the right way to do it doesn't mean it's the correct way to do it.

oh and FWIW...i drilled out the ez out with a carbide bit with the head on the engine...but sorry i haven't owned as many cars as you.

 

Actually, I'm quite calm. Looking over the posts, I realize the confusion on Danny's part. My post was meant for earlier in the discussion when I initially started my reply and then I posted later in the day as I am going about my business. Nonetheless, there's no reason to flame me for my post. Especially since the stuff regarding the dremel is good information. If Minty can't get a carbide or burns it up, I'd go with the dremel. It works. No one mentioned that option. While it is an unconventional approach, it works for folks with limited tools. You guys have a good site and its enjoyable to read up on stuff, but seriously don't try and pull the we're the admin threat when someone quotes one admin to defend himself against another. It's an internet message board on maximas. Sure you can boot me if that will make you feel better, but the reality is that I was defending myself and I will still be able to read the posts even if you do boot me. So, why get all worked up and threaten me. We can all just unbind our Manties and enjoy the humorous way Minty presented the problem and give some good advice. Cheers!

 

i wouldn't boot you off because you came at me for something i said...unless you started to go off and cursing and do something crazy.

Matt is not an admin or a moderator. he is a vendor and a supporter of maxima.org.

i understand you're trying to help...but i'm securing him the correct bits and cutting tools he needs for the job. he should be ok w/o using a helicoil unless he started to drill while he's drunk or something. telling him that he can't drill out the broken bit and to use a dremel and grind it out...IMO that's not the BEST idea and i would say it's the LAST resort not the first thing to reach for.

 

Wow. Maybe we should get together for beers and smoke the peace pipe later.


In my defense:
owning cars doesn't mean you know anything about machining. yeah you can hold a drill straight...what does that tell me? go you? any particular reason why you have to own that many cars? bad driver(s)? poor mainteance? -----LOL. Nice ad hominem attack. Let's see, without wasting too much space..... the classic cars,I owned because I loved them. Good ole American Steel. As for experience, there was plenty. I fixed them up and sold them to help pay for college costs. I grew up on a ranch in the country -- i used trucks. I also bought a truck when i bought my house for projects. The hondas and nissans I bought with higher miles because of my business. I do a lot of driving. Enough driving to make money on mileage when you buy a $2000 car and run it into the ground. The mustang was my college car. Sold it when I moved to MN because of weather. Is that good enough for you?

minty went w/ the advice of the guy at the part's counter...at no fault of his own because he wasn't familar w/ easy outs.

___TRUE>>>>> autoparts store people can be morons. Cheers to this one.

you said not to drill out the broken ez out...that's why i came back w/ my response..because you CAN drill out a broken ez out.

Please, go back and read my post. I said don't drill with an ez out or tap. Not that you can't drill it out. I've drilled them out, too.

you said to helicoil it...what kind of advice is that? you helicoil when there's NOTHING else you can do...maybe in "your" expertise in owning all those cars you helicoil everything...maybe that's why you had to go through so many cars?..i don't know.

---Damn good advice. The helicoil is great tool. Depending on how much drilling has been done, the helicoil does the best job of nearly restoring the original strength of the threads. It's a judgement call, but if you had to dremel a whole out, I'd use a helicoil. Especially on the exhaust manifold on a maxima since the design flaw puts a lot of stress on those bolts which is why they snap.

so holding a grinding bit to a small hole in the exhaust stud with a dremel would be the "correct" thing to do?

While unconventional it works for folks who might have limited tools. Plus, if he's working between the head and the firewall, that space is very tight. I know for a fact that without unbolting the engine from the mounts and jacking it up or taking the head off you cannot get a drill back there at the proper angle. You will need a 90 degree attachment. The dremel will need a 90 degree attachment as well.

repeating your advice? seriously have you even read this thread? you repeated what everyone said...what you think you thought of it all by yourself? don't put the tap/ez out in the drill...yeah i mentioned that a few days ago.

My bad. As I explained in my response to matt, my post was supposed to go up earlier when it would have been more relevant. With all of us agreeing and giving good advice, Minty is sure to do a good job. Also, I have been given crap advice on this site by regulars. If multiple people say the same thing, then it's good advice in my book and worth taking.

please save the drama for someone else...just because you think it's the right way to do it doesn't mean it's the correct way to do it.

Ummmm. Never said it was the right way. I said it worked. which means my advice is an option for minty that had not yet been explored.

oh and FWIW...i drilled out the ez out with a carbide bit with the head on the engine...but sorry i haven't owned as many cars as you.

Good for you. Which head and what type of car? I've done both sides. Knowing that we should both get together for a beer and curse the nissan engineers for a shoddy design.

It seems Minty will be able to handle the project fairly well because of everyone's advice. Good luck!