VEvolution

hey guys, my rotor has rusted up real bad. the calipers been dead for god knows how long. anyway, im about to fix the caliper, and change the pads all around. think this caliper still got some life left in it? what would be the best way to remove the rust if so? brake parts cleaner? resurface possibley? maybe replace? basically, im just lookin for the cheapest way out. thx

xnyc

iTrader: (9)

i think you should have it resurfaced depending on how thick the rotor still is

nelledge

iTrader: (6)

I, respectfully, disagree. Start fresh. Get some cheap Autozoo blanks if you have to until you get money for decent ones. Watch those seals when you push the pistons back in. With all that rust you should make sure to lubricate them and clean any debris off the piston body.

Mizeree_X

iTrader: (9)

Are you asking if the rotor or the caliper has life left in it? f the rotor is OEM, see if you can get it resurfaced. Autozone rotors = teh crap. Personally, I would replace the stuck caliper, and take the car out for a spin w/ the new one and just scrape the rust off. I've seen plenty of cars that sit for a month o so, the rotors rust up, and one trip around the block gets them pretty clean pretty quick.

subs1000w

if its just surface rust i wouldnt worry about it but its up to you having a rotor turned is only about 10$

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you are that worried, just take a disc grinder to them. Don't turn them if you don't have to.

Wiking

And if u are not too worried, juts hit the gas. Will be scratchnoisy braking for a while, not too bad. But I would do as Jeff suggests.

The fluids should be changed once in three yrs: moisture gets always in, and braking from high speed gets water boiling and u lose suddendly brakes. That is not alwasy funny, might cause some problems, even more. Also water rusts system from inside, which is real bad for u future.

DARHAW-MAX

IMO, the cheapest way out is to fix the caliper as you mentioned and then just go for a good drive and let the the friction remove the rust. However, I believe the best way (which translates into most expensive) out would be to replace all: new or rebuit calipers, new pads, new rotors, and a complete brake fluid flush.

Wiking

ABS True; but if u're loaded with money, why play with a fifteen yr old car? Any non used brakes look like that, but if his chassis etc is similar, then we're back in the first q limitation "basically, im just lookin for the cheapest way out. thx"

Driving with rust creates grooves; rust will eventually fly out if car is used. Grooves mean expanded contact area: used by rallydrivers. Do brakes know how grooves have appeared, wer/tear or machining? No. So just drive; but still I would first take the excess rust out: the braking pwr is limited with the rust between pads.

I would also take a hard overall look on the brake lines before a drive: scrape 'em to evaluate if theyre rotten: if suspect, take another car.

disgruntled

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, just go for a drive and brake often, then replace the old brake pads and you should be good. Other than that there are also:

a) the wire brush method
b) take the rotors off (since you're going to do a brake job anyway,) and use a bench grinder with metal wire wheel attachments if you have access to one will do wonders on the job.

either way, good luck

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

so far I didn't notice anyone catch the real problem.
his caliper is SHOT!!!!
all the braking in the world won't remove his rust until the caliper is replaced/repaired
easiest way is buy a loaded caliper, it comes with the bracket, hardware, and pads. just basically bolt on and go.
BTW looking at that rotor, it needs at a minimum to be cut, but more than likely replaced in total, some of those rust spots are too deep.

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

yeah look like a full replacement there.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

...........

Wiking

What caliper, cannot see any caliper. ...if cannot inspect, no-one can say facts... pad corner visible, seems thick. Rotor looks like 2yr seaside P, needs just cleanup... Brakes possibly ok for an oldie to go an' visit auntie Wall Smart...

What is NOT seen, is most suspicious and needs further inspection/pics: calipers, lines, fluid &chassis rust condition.

VEvolution

thanks alot for the great feedback. hopefully tommorrow i'll have some time and take detailed pics with the wheel off. most likely, i'll go for the loaded caliper, and try and to remove the rust.

Wiking

Do that... Btw. What Internetautomator says, is ok from his perspective: all shops are expected to set your car in mint condition, especially brakes. But from cheapest user point, brakes do continue to function well with bad grooves (not with that rust on). FSM lists minimum rotor thickness. Check that also, and if worn more, they should be replaced as they might collapse on emergency stop.


Edit: Rotor repair limit by FSM is 20mm 0.78"

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

my rotors on my camaro are currently groovier than a record

falseicon

iTrader: (2)

If that's a Rick James record you should consider having them ground

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

from the looks of them, i think the lyrics go "ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no valley low enough"

VEvolution

ok, i got around to taking a few close-up shots of the rotor for furthur analysis/opinions, thx

disgruntled

iTrader: (7)

I would say start with the cheapest option first, which is to use the current pad, and do a friction "sanding" to get the rust off, once that is done, maybe you will have a better idea. Judging from your third picture, its not quite as bad. Speaking from personal experience, I have a parked car that is parked for over a year, and the rotors are worst looking than yours, after half an hour of driving and breaking, the thing is just as shiny as when I first parked it, just my two cents.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

first make sure your caliper is moving then start screwing around with the rest.

Wiking

At least u have brand new jet blk jack!

Struts still have some paint, guess that they still do their job. Rust is unversal, looks the same in here ...if u can lift the car from there, Good sign!

What is the history of this vehicle, where has it been standing and how many yrs?

VEvolution

yeah, thats my portable jack i drive around with in the trunk. got a great deal on it.

actually this car has been driven non-stop for the past 2 years in many different places across the US. all it is, is the caliper has been shot for just about that long, so it hasnt been used on the wheel for a long time. thats how much rust it has collected

Wiking

Now I agree on caliper change, tribe was right. But then, brakes are only for the faint hearted, only excess weight.

disgruntled

iTrader: (7)

^^^^^
LOL, reminds me of that racing movie I saw where the guy cut his brake cables (bikes) and said something like, "if you're going to use these, you will never win"

Wiking

If car is driven as u say, and rear brakes do not engage, the issue is the twin load sensing valve behind rear axle assy. The valve adjusts the amount of pressure devided between rear/front brakes. This balance is adjusted with the screws tightening/loosening the two coilsprings/valves.

Your adj has been incorrect - making u vehicle dangerous on slippery conditions. Refer to FSM; with 1300lb rear load, brake fluid measured pressure should be:
- front pressure 710psi , rear 550-700
- front pressure 1400psi , rear 740-940

Inspection brake tester also will tell this, we have here yearly inspection [seem u have none!?] where this issue will not pass. My max test numbers (excellent) few months ago:
Front left 2.93 / right. 2.87 / deviation 0.1% / accptd deviation 30%
Rear left 1.30 / right. 1.38 / deviation 3% / accptd deviation 30%
Handbrake left 1.55 / right. 1.8 / deviation 30% / accptd deviation 70%

VEvolution

lol, we do have yearly inspections(don't know about brakes), except i was a good customer at a shop, so i could get away without being inspected

anyway, the problem you are talking about is a bit hard for me to understand.. isn't it just the caliper thats shot? the rear brake(s) do engage, just that caliper on the driver side rear is no good and hasnt been working for a long time. otherside works

i was actually looking at some prices at www.tirerack.com, and the prices they have for brake pads/rotors/etc. aren't too bad. im actually considering replacing all four corners with new rotors and pads, since my other rotors are warped, and pads are really low. it comes out to about $250.. i didnt realize it would be that cheap, since this is my first car/brake replacement. where do you guys get your rotors and pads from, that have good quality and great prices? do i need to change my rims for the rear BBK? lol j/k

Wiking

That rear caliper has NOT been engaged with anybody for few yrs, not to speak of marriage...

1. Caliper may be rusted. Rust comes from inaction, water in system. Fluid should be changed once 3yrs =then no water, rust.

2. Caliper may be ok. It just has been sitting inactive.

1+2 Inaction is because no pressure arrives ever into rear brakes. If so, the valve resposible for it, is either busted, or wrong adj. Whatever the case, the brakes have to be tested! This way, or that way; to diagnose how the valve works. Look at the FSM.

Take the car to those who understand how the valve should work; repair u what u can. This is critical in critical situations; u will end in a spin on wet road with panic braking.

Hey! Inspection is for YOUR LIFE! ...u need that to be aware of life threathening situations for u. If not u, the other 300mil US citizens (and 10 mil ill aliens)

VEvolution

yeah, your definatly right about the inspection thing.

1) fluids been leaking for a long time, so i get regular changes daily thats out of the picture

2) yeah, maybe its not the caliper. gonna look through the FSM on troubleshooting, see what i can do

3) thanks

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

1. try here: www.internetautomart.com the guy seems to know what he's talking about.
2. if you are gonna run jeff's bracket for the z31 upgrade on the rear, then the stock SE wheel will clear with no problem.

Ja[M]z

thats simple dude ! rear disc cost me 24 $ for 2 . so galiper , pads , and discs . while youre at it , do the front ones . 150 $ operation , brand new and kick *** brakin !


thats what i did and my friend BMW E36 is stopping slower than me ... ( stopped in my *** the last time : | )

Ja[M]z

woops didnt read you re last post
lol
keep go this way ! i got some cheap pads and rotors , four corners , and surprisingly , they brake very well !

try that

VEvolution

think its worth going for slotted or cross drilled?

heard they make annoying noises

kcidmil

if you like having your pads ate away like nothing. I have Brembo slots ( from the sig) on all 4 corners. Most of the time they can sound like a dumptruck. But they do bring the car to stop a lot faster than my stock ones did.

VEvolution

lol, well i knew someone with slots, and they didn't experience those noises. cross drilled make the same dumptruck noise?

kcidmil

It's a problem with the pads I'm using. I know if I got a different style it would go away. But the semi-metallic I'm using is working great.

Wiking

Depending on the leak location, rear calipers might still have the original (water stiffened) juice.

Basically the load sensing valve balances your brakes based on load. Driving alone, hit the brakes, medium force: if front dives hard/deep, wrong adjustment (take into account bad shocks).

Rear brakes should always engage, "half" force of front with heavy load. Without load, almost equal. The front: has been typically built bigger, so the braking force is already bigger even without adjusting valves.

The nuts at the spring ends are adjusted to achieve balance.

VEvolution

hhmm.. interesting. well, the leak is the ABS actuator.. don't know if that makes a difference or not, but i still didn't get a chance to look through the FSM for troubleshooting calipers, but it would be interesting if your right about that "adjusting" thing. i'll take that into consideration before purchasing a loaded caliper. thx

Wiking

The caliper piston moves inwards if its ok. Note: have to be rotated while pressing! If u cannot move it, or if the piston does not come out as the rotor is taken off and pedal pressed, then its possibly rusted solid. Take caliper out for inspection if it does not move freely, or if rubber dust shield has cracks.

I guess the proper way is to get brakes functional first. After rear calipers are ok, start looking after the balance. If the calipers were ok, then the only problem might be that adj valve.

Its also possible (very seldom) for the adj valve to jam (not functional adjustmentwise) because of sludge inside piping; I dont think its totally blocked.

DIY adjusment/tst
Basically the load sensing valve balances your braking forces based on how much the car is loaded. The more load in rear, the more braking power will be boosted at rear wheels. Test driving alone, hit the brakes, medium force: if front dives hard/deep, wrong adjustment (take into account if the car has worn front shocks). If shocks are good, brakes balanced, there is no-s-dive... If rear tends to 'sink' first, the valve is tuned too much to the rear. Adjust both sides and retest. Then u might still have wrong balance between rear tires. Test drive on snow or loose gravel will give good enough results to guide the adjustment: all brakes must lock at same time. (disable ABS during test).