coilover setup
I am trying to figure out exactly where this thread is going. I read through all of these lame posts and came up with very little. Did the company quote you a price? Please answer all of Matt's questions, too.
I seriously doubt that anyone on this board would pay over $1k for an unproven coilover set up. That would equal about 1/3 the value of most 3rd gens.
I seriously doubt that anyone on this board would pay over $1k for an unproven coilover set up. That would equal about 1/3 the value of most 3rd gens.
Originally Posted by maxedout92max
oem struts... i guess but ill ask to make sure...to the ??? which one has turbo ... the one on page one ... mine... but its getting bmw rear light shaved in, 5 speed convert.,rear disc brakes, and more engine work like turbo, injectors, ect....
Originally Posted by Joe Fontinyatz
Im still a bit confused about what coilovers actually are.. What makes them different then the regular Eibach/Koni set-up?
eibach/koni set up...the spring perch stays at stock location. eibach figured out the spring rates for you and set height.
I miss my VE
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,553
From: NY
Originally Posted by DanNY
look in the pic...see that spring...it sits on an adjustable sleeve (sleeve can be moved up or down). since you can move that sleeve you can also adjust the ride height. the spring you can also get in various spring rates and lenghts.
eibach/koni set up...the spring perch stays at stock location. eibach figured out the spring rates for you and set height.
eibach/koni set up...the spring perch stays at stock location. eibach figured out the spring rates for you and set height.
Originally Posted by Joe Fontinyatz
Okay, so basically coil overs are adjustable. Is that the official name for them, because someone keeps telling me that I have coil overs on my rear. I didn't really argue since a coil spring goes over the shock. Can our stock set-up be called coil overs?
in all technical terms, our suspension that uses MacPherson struts is a coil-over-strut setup. But it is not to be confused with racing type coilovers.
the big difference between coilovers and our stuff is that coilovers are adjustable. some only allow for ride height adjustments by turning the lower spring perch, and others have ride height, spring travel, and multimple shock damping adjustments. the more goodies on it, the more expensive it is.
the big difference between coilovers and our stuff is that coilovers are adjustable. some only allow for ride height adjustments by turning the lower spring perch, and others have ride height, spring travel, and multimple shock damping adjustments. the more goodies on it, the more expensive it is.
Yup.. what Jeffy said.
that's reason #2.
reason #1 is the 3rd gen MAxima is a freaking 4 door family car! there's little to no demand for stuff like this.
reason #3 is the rear strut housing is part of the axle stub assembly- just like the blue one in the above pic.. that makes an aftermarket coilover very $$$$$$ because they have to make/copy/remachine that part.
reason #4 (why ground control and other sleeve-over places don't make kits) is because the struts are insanely short- the 3rd gen uses a 12" long front strut housing. not even the Stanza, Sentra, Altima, Eclipse, Neon, Miata, etc use struts that short. so you can't even steal a strut from somewhere else and use it. there's just nothing to fit it, and you're SOL on getting anything custom in small enough quantities to make it worthwhile to a manufacturer.
that's reason #2.
reason #1 is the 3rd gen MAxima is a freaking 4 door family car! there's little to no demand for stuff like this.
reason #3 is the rear strut housing is part of the axle stub assembly- just like the blue one in the above pic.. that makes an aftermarket coilover very $$$$$$ because they have to make/copy/remachine that part.
reason #4 (why ground control and other sleeve-over places don't make kits) is because the struts are insanely short- the 3rd gen uses a 12" long front strut housing. not even the Stanza, Sentra, Altima, Eclipse, Neon, Miata, etc use struts that short. so you can't even steal a strut from somewhere else and use it. there's just nothing to fit it, and you're SOL on getting anything custom in small enough quantities to make it worthwhile to a manufacturer.
So this place wants $900 american dollars to install crappy *** ground control coil over sleeves?
I want to say no offense but I probably will offend if you are even thinking about this.
My buddy got some ground control coil over sleeves for his tercel (funny i know.. least now it is respectable wiht a 4efte swap and eibachs and lot sof other goodies) anyways they are the worst bunch of junk I ever seen,Crappy made parts out of crappy aluminum with single rate springs.Any body that woudl pay that much money to do something so stupid belongs in a sunfire.
specially if it is using oem struts.. i would almost gurantee a car with tockico or konis with eibachs would outhandle that in a second.Also the fact that you have to have your car realigned everytime you change the ride height would be stupid.
Like matt said it is a 4door family car and I must say if it was a kit to make a set of real racing coil overs fit on then it owudl be interesting,but i am petty sure anyone with any mechanical skill coudl do this swp themselves... why i do not know
I want to say no offense but I probably will offend if you are even thinking about this.
My buddy got some ground control coil over sleeves for his tercel (funny i know.. least now it is respectable wiht a 4efte swap and eibachs and lot sof other goodies) anyways they are the worst bunch of junk I ever seen,Crappy made parts out of crappy aluminum with single rate springs.Any body that woudl pay that much money to do something so stupid belongs in a sunfire.
specially if it is using oem struts.. i would almost gurantee a car with tockico or konis with eibachs would outhandle that in a second.Also the fact that you have to have your car realigned everytime you change the ride height would be stupid.
Like matt said it is a 4door family car and I must say if it was a kit to make a set of real racing coil overs fit on then it owudl be interesting,but i am petty sure anyone with any mechanical skill coudl do this swp themselves... why i do not know
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Yup.. what Jeffy said.
that's reason #2.
reason #1 is the 3rd gen MAxima is a freaking 4 door family car! there's little to no demand for stuff like this.
reason #3 is the rear strut housing is part of the axle stub assembly- just like the blue one in the above pic.. that makes an aftermarket coilover very $$$$$$ because they have to make/copy/remachine that part.
reason #4 (why ground control and other sleeve-over places don't make kits) is because the struts are insanely short- the 3rd gen uses a 12" long front strut housing. not even the Stanza, Sentra, Altima, Eclipse, Neon, Miata, etc use struts that short. so you can't even steal a strut from somewhere else and use it. there's just nothing to fit it, and you're SOL on getting anything custom in small enough quantities to make it worthwhile to a manufacturer.
that's reason #2.
reason #1 is the 3rd gen MAxima is a freaking 4 door family car! there's little to no demand for stuff like this.
reason #3 is the rear strut housing is part of the axle stub assembly- just like the blue one in the above pic.. that makes an aftermarket coilover very $$$$$$ because they have to make/copy/remachine that part.
reason #4 (why ground control and other sleeve-over places don't make kits) is because the struts are insanely short- the 3rd gen uses a 12" long front strut housing. not even the Stanza, Sentra, Altima, Eclipse, Neon, Miata, etc use struts that short. so you can't even steal a strut from somewhere else and use it. there's just nothing to fit it, and you're SOL on getting anything custom in small enough quantities to make it worthwhile to a manufacturer.
more potential for what? def. not coilover suspesion, because there is way too much to figure out since its soo short. read matts first post on page 1 where he asks all those questions, those are the things making it hard, otherwise matt would have coilovers on his ride and probably be selling them.
Our cars don't have much potential in all honesty.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
I miss my VE
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,553
From: NY
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Our cars don't have much potential in all honesty.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
P.S.- Why does the Max eat tires faster then the 240?
Maxima: FWD, 3600lb (with driver), 59/41 front/rear.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
so the Maxima has ~1070lb on each front wheel that does ALL the work. the front tires must accelerate, stop, and turn the vehicle. the rear wheels are just dragging along for fun basically.. They have about 740lb on each wheel and don't have to do much work.
the 240, on the other hand, has 760lb on each front wheel that must stop and turn.
the rear wheels are driven, so they get to share some of the work. They have about 650lb on them doing the acceleration only.
that's a greatly simplified version of it, but the big issue is that the Maxima is a FWD nose-heavy pig emphasis added just so everyone gets my point
). To make them corner at 1g, you're putting some HUGE stresses on the front wheels, with not a lot on the rears. The 240 is much more balanced- it sees drastically less stress on the front wheels and much more on the rears.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
so the Maxima has ~1070lb on each front wheel that does ALL the work. the front tires must accelerate, stop, and turn the vehicle. the rear wheels are just dragging along for fun basically.. They have about 740lb on each wheel and don't have to do much work.
the 240, on the other hand, has 760lb on each front wheel that must stop and turn.
the rear wheels are driven, so they get to share some of the work. They have about 650lb on them doing the acceleration only.
that's a greatly simplified version of it, but the big issue is that the Maxima is a FWD nose-heavy pig emphasis added just so everyone gets my point
). To make them corner at 1g, you're putting some HUGE stresses on the front wheels, with not a lot on the rears. The 240 is much more balanced- it sees drastically less stress on the front wheels and much more on the rears.
I miss my VE
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,553
From: NY
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Maxima: FWD, 3600lb (with driver), 59/41 front/rear.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
so the Maxima has ~1070lb on each front wheel that does ALL the work. the front tires must accelerate, stop, and turn the vehicle. the rear wheels are just dragging along for fun basically.. They have about 740lb on each wheel and don't have to do much work.
the 240, on the other hand, has 760lb on each front wheel that must stop and turn.
the rear wheels are driven, so they get to share some of the work. They have about 650lb on them doing the acceleration only.
that's a greatly simplified version of it, but the big issue is that the Maxima is a FWD nose-heavy pig emphasis added just so everyone gets my point ). To make them corner at 1g, you're putting some HUGE stresses on the front wheels, with not a lot on the rears. The 240 is much more balanced- it sees drastically less stress on the front wheels and much more on the rears.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
so the Maxima has ~1070lb on each front wheel that does ALL the work. the front tires must accelerate, stop, and turn the vehicle. the rear wheels are just dragging along for fun basically.. They have about 740lb on each wheel and don't have to do much work.
the 240, on the other hand, has 760lb on each front wheel that must stop and turn.
the rear wheels are driven, so they get to share some of the work. They have about 650lb on them doing the acceleration only.
that's a greatly simplified version of it, but the big issue is that the Maxima is a FWD nose-heavy pig emphasis added just so everyone gets my point
). To make them corner at 1g, you're putting some HUGE stresses on the front wheels, with not a lot on the rears. The 240 is much more balanced- it sees drastically less stress on the front wheels and much more on the rears.So where would you say the 3rd gen thrives better at full potential? At the strip, or upon the twisties?
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Our cars don't have much potential in all honesty.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
my car is about as good as it gets without a roll cage and a race shop actually building the parts.... and my stock 240 with sticky tires and 100k miles shocks will already take corners just as well.
These cars also eat tires like there's no tomorrow. A weekend at the track costs me a 1/2 set of tires. and on 17x8 wheels and good tires, you guys know a full set (mounted) runs about $700.. so $350 every time I go tot he track, or I can run the same tires on the 240 and get a season out of them. hmmmm.
The Maxima also has a horrible weight distribution problem. it's around 60% front, and to make it handle better, you would need to remove 10% of the weight OFF the front, or move it to the back.. you can get close by swapping in a VQ (-125lb), removing the A/C (-30lb), and moving the battery to the back (40lb shifted to the back),
but you're still a FAR cry off of good weight distribution.
And when you did that, it would change so many other things about the car. roll centers, ride height on both ends, spring and shock rates would need to be changed again.. it would be rebuilding a completely different car.
If this were a $40,000 car with real potential, it might be worth all that. but nobody in their right mind is goign to go through all that work and expense for a $2500 family car. You'd be better off buying a used E36 sedan or a WRX for the same money and have a car with excellent handling from the factory.
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
reason #4 (why ground control and other sleeve-over places don't make kits) is because the struts are insanely short- the 3rd gen uses a 12" long front strut housing. not even the Stanza, Sentra, Altima, Eclipse, Neon, Miata, etc use struts that short. so you can't even steal a strut from somewhere else and use it. there's just nothing to fit it, and you're SOL on getting anything custom in small enough quantities to make it worthwhile to a manufacturer.
Cavalier 
What I really hate about this thread is how soo many people are downing this setup. If Matt, Dan, Jeff, and like two other people hadn't said anything then mainly everyone would have been like I'm down for a set. More than likely no one would have even considered the questions Matt has proposed up front. Instead of going against him someone could atleast give him props because there are only two other people in my knowledge that has tried a coilover setup. Madmax(I think that's it), and Matt.
When they finish this product get some slammed pics. Getting a pic of this on a black max with a stillen kit and 25% tints = teh hottness.
When they finish this product get some slammed pics. Getting a pic of this on a black max with a stillen kit and 25% tints = teh hottness.
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
Maxima: FWD, 3600lb (with driver), 59/41 front/rear.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
240SX: RWD, 2800lb (with driver), 54/46 front/rear.
I weighed my car with no interior at a Oregon DOT truck scale and it was at 3000 lbs with 1/2 tank of gas. With me in it (185 lbs), that's still under 3200 lbs.
What you say is true about the handling and stuff. The car is nose heavy and eats tires if you don't have everything perfect. It handles better than most fwd sedans, but is laughable compared to a sporty car like a Miata, 240sx, MR2, etc. -- the kind of cars most people autocross.
Also, I would not have even consider a coilover set up on my Maxima. It's just too much money for a car as old as mine. I can barely justify paying for used Eibachs for it.
extra sound insulation, additional mods (sway bars, sturt bars, sub frame connectors, lower tie bars, rear tie bars) + audio components, wheels + tires, bigger brakes.......all these things add up to a pretty hefty vehicle.
I miss my VE
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,553
From: NY
Originally Posted by lophix
extra sound insulation, additional mods (sway bars, sturt bars, sub frame connectors, lower tie bars, rear tie bars) + audio components, wheels + tires, bigger brakes.......all these things add up to a pretty hefty vehicle.
Originally Posted by VG Ridah
What I really hate about this thread is how soo many people are downing this setup. If Matt, Dan, Jeff, and like two other people hadn't said anything then mainly everyone would have been like I'm down for a set. More than likely no one would have even considered the questions Matt has proposed up front. Instead of going against him someone could atleast give him props because there are only two other people in my knowledge that has tried a coilover setup. Madmax(I think that's it), and Matt.
When they finish this product get some slammed pics. Getting a pic of this on a black max with a stillen kit and 25% tints = teh hottness.
When they finish this product get some slammed pics. Getting a pic of this on a black max with a stillen kit and 25% tints = teh hottness.
Matt IIRC has a bumpsteer issue with his.
so, 2 knowledgable people have problems with them, you really think you won't?
Originally Posted by internetautomar
Madmax024 (pat) took his out because it just wasn't worth it.
Matt IIRC has a bumpsteer issue with his.
so, 2 knowledgable people have problems with them, you really think you won't?
Matt IIRC has a bumpsteer issue with his.
so, 2 knowledgable people have problems with them, you really think you won't?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by cardana24
The white car looks like a ford thunderbird 
And what kind of power does the turbo maxima with the Z31 swap put down?
Goodluck with the coils!!!!
And what kind of power does the turbo maxima with the Z31 swap put down?Goodluck with the coils!!!!
dont know how it is tho ... it was at the shop getting its goodies and they told me they dynoed it and told me 328 so i dont know if it hooks up in 1st or 2nd cause then the car went to get some lights shaved in the rear and painted
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by VG Ridah
I wasn't saying I won't have issues with these I'm just saying that everyone is knocking this guy from atleast trying to be innovative. Only two other people have tried coilovers. I thought Madmax thought they were too rough so he got rid of them. To my knowledge the only people that are posting good info on trying to tackle these issues are Matt, only because he has past experience. Everyone one else is just playing follow the leader.
so if you dont have nothing good to say about someones questions or post they help them or dont say nothing dumb a$$.matt and mr. gone this is not for u guys cause ur old skool and have tried everything but all the other followers you just told me what you know and thanks cause these are question that i have to ask when getting them made...but still just atleast ive done that but good luck trying.... im not crying just getting tired of people with there 2 cents these days...
If these issues were sorted out, I'd have them years ago. Sorry to be a "follower". 
Originally Posted by VG Ridah
I wasn't saying I won't have issues with these I'm just saying that everyone is knocking this guy from atleast trying to be innovative. Only two other people have tried coilovers. I thought Madmax thought they were too rough so he got rid of them. To my knowledge the only people that are posting good info on trying to tackle these issues are Matt, only because he has past experience. Everyone one else is just playing follow the leader.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
If these issues were sorted out, I'd have them years ago. Sorry to be a "follower". 
Originally Posted by MrGone
I thought the reason why Pat stopped running them is because he couldn't drive a block without wearing out his strut mounts?
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