VQ35 Swap Ideas
12-20-2005, 11:01 AM
#81
Originally Posted by DA-MAX
WTF!?!?!? is this I hear about someone selling a conversion kit?? THTAS MY ******* MARKET...oh theres gonna be hell to pay!!! 
: I am the originator, all imitations are irrelevant.... whos been giving out the mystery part numbers for the Stillen kit for last 2 years, ME, thats who!! 
anyone who steps foot in the conversion kit market will have their legs broken, garun-damn-tee!!! 
..."Feeling...Nothing more than...Feelings"
12-20-2005, 02:18 PM
#82
Originally Posted by 93turbo gxe
ok this thread has went apewire.
Ok Matt I hope you still have plans on trying to get a 3.5 into the 3rd gen. It would be great for the 3rd gen communtiy. As the fourth gen guys dont give us any credit for anything.
505max94se.......you want throttle responce. Buy a plain ticket and come drive the my turbo charged vg. then Go back home and figuer out how to turbo charge your car you would love my throttle responce.
Ok Matt I hope you still have plans on trying to get a 3.5 into the 3rd gen. It would be great for the 3rd gen communtiy. As the fourth gen guys dont give us any credit for anything.
505max94se.......you want throttle responce. Buy a plain ticket and come drive the my turbo charged vg. then Go back home and figuer out how to turbo charge your car you would love my throttle responce.
If you guys would have read how this thread was created, you'd relize Matt isn't the one wanting to do this swap......It's me.
12-20-2005, 02:54 PM
#83
Originally Posted by 505max94se
If you guys would have read how this thread was created, you'd relize Matt isn't the one wanting to do this swap......It's me.
12-20-2005, 05:20 PM
#85
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Why? Stillen already has VQ conversion kits
you have to call and ask for Addae though
12-20-2005, 06:00 PM
#86
Originally Posted by 505max94se
I'm sure it has great throttle response once the turbo is spooled up....What happans if you step on it at 2k rpms....I like turbos too I just like NA more. I actually have Julio's manifolds sitting in my garage because I was going to build a VE-T. I really have no idea what I'm going to do.....maybe I'll turbo the VE, maybe I'll rebuild the VE for NA (nothing special), maybe I'll attempt a vq35 swap, or I might not do anyhting at all. I just like knowing all of my options.
If you guys would have read how this thread was created, you'd relize Matt isn't the one wanting to do this swap......It's me.
If you guys would have read how this thread was created, you'd relize Matt isn't the one wanting to do this swap......It's me.
12-21-2005, 06:21 AM
#87
Originally Posted by MrGone
an inside source told me Redlinemax will be running a sale on April 1st
you have to call and ask for Addae though
you have to call and ask for Addae though
12-21-2005, 01:35 PM
#88
Originally Posted by 93turbo gxe
Ok Matt I hope you still have plans on trying to get a 3.5 into the 3rd gen. It would be great for the 3rd gen communtiy. As the fourth gen guys dont give us any credit for anything.
Originally Posted by Alex_V
But thats been done before and we love our third gens!
Plus theres the 6 speed with the VQ35. Hello reliability! Imagine it with headers, full exaust, heck maybe even cams, and a standalone....hello POWER!!
~Alex
Plus theres the 6 speed with the VQ35. Hello reliability! Imagine it with headers, full exaust, heck maybe even cams, and a standalone....hello POWER!!
~Alex
If I wanted to make big, reliable power out of a third gen I'd get a VG SE 5spd and turbo it. You can make just as much power as the VQ35 with a small amount of fabbing, and much less $$$. It's the best bang for the buck when it comes to third gens.
Now someone go prove me wrong and put a VQ35 in their third gen
12-22-2005, 06:21 AM
#90
Originally Posted by MrGone
an inside source told me Redlinemax will be running a sale on April 1st
you have to call and ask for Addae though
you have to call and ask for Addae though
12-22-2005, 10:13 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by Nismo87SE
However since I know Matt could do the fab work himself, no doubt he could pull off the swap. First thing is he doesn't need a Vq35 ecu or wire harness. The VE ecu could run that engine assuming the CAS on the VQ35 has the same output as on the VE.
I also want to mention that if you guys are going to use the full 3.5L on your car, for god's sake get an entire parts car. It's easy to say you're going to stuff all that spagetti in a 3rd gen once the fabbing/fitting is done and it'll work. Not so easy. The 02's were the first to use Drive By Wire and have an immobilizer. That basically means you have to take the entire steering column components of a 02 and somehow fit them in your 3rd gen.
I would love to see a 3.5 3rd gen but truth is I think the swap would be easier using 4th gen wiring/ECU, If you can work out the fitting. Also I've heard the 6-speed swap was a nightmare for the (very) few 4th gen guys that have done it.
12-22-2005, 10:20 AM
#92
300z VG = I don't belive it has seperate timing sensors on each head.
VE = uses one cam angle sensor on the front head to measure timing (it's adj btw). Has coil on plug like the VQ.
The two buldges you see on each front side of the heads are for VTC assemblies on both the VE and 300zVG
VE = uses one cam angle sensor on the front head to measure timing (it's adj btw). Has coil on plug like the VQ.
The two buldges you see on each front side of the heads are for VTC assemblies on both the VE and 300zVG
Originally Posted by JClaw
Been there done that. We tried to use a 300zx ecu on my car (because OBDI's are so much easier to tune). Nada. Nissan uses a complicated type of signal on the VQ that everybody but JWT and maybe Greddy can crack and it has the cam sensor directly in front of the cam sprocket, while the VG/VE uses twin sensors (one on each head).
12-23-2005, 10:00 AM
#93
yeah, what Jeffy said.
BUt... you can use an N/A Z32 ECU on the VE.. the computers are completely different between them, but the inputs and outputs are pin-for-pin identical, except for the addition of a 2nd O2 sensor and a fuel temp sensor for the VG...
doing that, you can basically plug & play with an Ash-Spec, JWT, or whatever ECU you want that will work on the VG. makes tuning the VE much easier, and since the VE shares a lot of internal parts with the VG, you can build them pretty stout to begin with.
the only drawback to using the VE is weight. the VQ is MUCH lighter because of the aluminum block (shaves about 100-120lb), but otherwise the VE honestly has more potential than the VQ30. the guts on the VE are interchangeable with the VG, so there's no reason it can't be built to 600+hp with the right tuning and build, but the fun part would be getting that to the ground.
BUt... you can use an N/A Z32 ECU on the VE.. the computers are completely different between them, but the inputs and outputs are pin-for-pin identical, except for the addition of a 2nd O2 sensor and a fuel temp sensor for the VG...
doing that, you can basically plug & play with an Ash-Spec, JWT, or whatever ECU you want that will work on the VG. makes tuning the VE much easier, and since the VE shares a lot of internal parts with the VG, you can build them pretty stout to begin with.
the only drawback to using the VE is weight. the VQ is MUCH lighter because of the aluminum block (shaves about 100-120lb), but otherwise the VE honestly has more potential than the VQ30. the guts on the VE are interchangeable with the VG, so there's no reason it can't be built to 600+hp with the right tuning and build, but the fun part would be getting that to the ground.
12-23-2005, 05:10 PM
#96
Originally Posted by vansskaterfreek
good luck with the wiring alone....... i am having a fun time as it is 
and this is only a VG to a VE swap!!!!!!
and this is only a VG to a VE swap!!!!!!
12-24-2005, 03:22 PM
#97
Originally Posted by vansskaterfreek
good luck with the wiring alone....... i am having a fun time as it is
and this is only a VG to a VE swap!!!!!!
and this is only a VG to a VE swap!!!!!!
12-24-2005, 03:31 PM
#98
Originally Posted by internetautomar
at least you are doing it rather than talking about it!
Too many punk kids come in here and talk their swap **** ..all **** talk...vans is actually doing it...I am not sure it will be successful...but at least he is doing it and not just running his mouth....
12-24-2005, 03:38 PM
#99
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
Too many punk kids come in here and talk their swap **** ..all **** talk...vans is actually doing it...I am not sure it will be successful...but at least he is doing it and not just running his mouth....
12-25-2005, 10:43 AM
#100
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
but otherwise the VE honestly has more potential than the VQ30. the guts on the VE are interchangeable with the VG, so there's no reason it can't be built to 600+hp with the right tuning and build, but the fun part would be getting that to the ground.
12-25-2005, 10:52 AM
#101
Originally Posted by nismology
How many VE's put down 476WHP and 500+WTQ to the ground on stock internals? I'm not gonna sit here and act like every turbo VQ30 is putting out those numbers or that it could do so reliably, but the only main limitations at that point were the stock compression ratio, the stock ignition timing, and the head gasket. Not the strength of the internals necessarily. Every turbo VQ30 motor failure that i know of has either been because the motor wasn't healthy enough for boost to begin with, or tuning issues. I'm not saying the VE couldn't be a beast potentially, but saying the VE has more potential than the VQ is a bold statement and i haven't seen any evidence yet that would validate it.
12-25-2005, 12:33 PM
#102
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,371
Originally Posted by 93turbo gxe
I agree I want to know why it has more potential than the vq...
those that dont know what i mean by open and closed deck heres pics look around where the piston goes
VG pic
VQ pic
the strenth of the stock internals is basicly equal except the VE has a source for cheaper ones since they can use stock or aftermarket VGTT rods and pistons wheres the VQ30 needs custom
the only advantage an aluminum block has is less weight
12-25-2005, 01:17 PM
#104
Originally Posted by subs1000w
plain and simple iron is stronger than aluminum so iron blocks are stronger and dont flex as much as aluminum blocks which means less stress on every bearing serface in the engine also you know aluminum blocks have iron cylinder sleaves. this is why the VQ has 4bolts mains and the VG and VE have 2, also mardi stripped one of his main studs when tourqing it down and that very likly wouldnt of happened if the VQ was an iron block. also the VE/VG block are closed deck the VQ it open deck this also pionts twoard the VE/VG engines being much stronger due to almost no chance of the sleaves flexing
those that dont know what i mean by open and closed deck heres pics look around where the piston goes
VG pic
VQ pic
the strenth of the stock internals is basicly equal except the VE has a source for cheaper ones since they can use stock or aftermarket VGTT rods and pistons wheres the VQ30 needs custom
the only advantage an aluminum block has is less weight
those that dont know what i mean by open and closed deck heres pics look around where the piston goes
VG pic
VQ pic
the strenth of the stock internals is basicly equal except the VE has a source for cheaper ones since they can use stock or aftermarket VGTT rods and pistons wheres the VQ30 needs custom
the only advantage an aluminum block has is less weight
12-25-2005, 01:23 PM
#107
Originally Posted by JClaw
Yeah. The 6.4-second drag 350z is pushing 1800whp on a VQ35 block. And they used the stock crank until 1300whp I believe.
Real world data > everything else.
Real world data > everything else.
Originally Posted by nismology
Some modern aluminum blocks > yesteryear's iron blocks.
12-25-2005, 02:55 PM
#108
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
BUt... you can use an N/A Z32 ECU on the VE.. the computers are completely different between them, but the inputs and outputs are pin-for-pin identical, except for the addition of a 2nd O2 sensor and a fuel temp sensor for the VG...
doing that, you can basically plug & play with an Ash-Spec, JWT, or whatever ECU you want that will work on the VG. makes tuning the VE much easier, and since the VE shares a lot of internal parts with the VG, you can build them pretty stout to begin with.
doing that, you can basically plug & play with an Ash-Spec, JWT, or whatever ECU you want that will work on the VG. makes tuning the VE much easier, and since the VE shares a lot of internal parts with the VG, you can build them pretty stout to begin with.
I decided to take that setup out of my car and concentrate on getting the ZEM to work with the VE ECU. Ash is just being slow as molasses with the R&D. He's busy doing other stuff I'm sure.
But if anybody out there desperately needs to be able to tune your turbo VE and are willing to deal with some idling and slight stalling issues, you can have Ash Powers' Zemulator working in your car with a z32 ECU. But the ZEM works just fine right now with the VG 3rd gen! That'll be easy to get working! Just some minor differences in the program like VTC release and stuff that won't pertain to the VG Maxima.
12-25-2005, 08:55 PM
#109
the VE/VG > VQ statement is simply based on the history of these engines.
the VG is a stout engine and has been pushing 1000+ hp when built for decades.
and don't even begin to bring in Hal's 450hp VQ in this. just exactly how long do those things last? years is not the right answer... anyone can use stock internals and put down 500hp for a few runs, then throw the engine away. the VE and VG will both do it very easily.
the VE uses basically the same bottom end as the VG30DETT (including con rods and bearings).. the crank girdle is exactly the same on them, and the only real differences are the lack of oil squirters and the crank differences on the snout to accept a timing chain setup instead of the belt on the VG. otherwise it's the same forged crank design and everything. and people like SGP racing build "streetable" VG30DETTs at 600+hp all day long.. they are pushing those numbers with built VQs as well, but the simple facts of the matter on those are:
1. the parts prices are outrageous
2. it won't (easily) work in a 3 gen
3. and the VQ has serious computer tuning issues because of the OBD-II. the VG/VE ECUs are well known and easy to modify, so that makes tuning a snap by a properly equipped and staffed shop.
thus it's easier to get more reliable power out of a VE for $xxx than it is for a VQ for $xxx in the 3 gen Maxima.
am I saying you should remove the VQ from a 4 or 5 gen or a 350Z? no. I'm saying it would be ludicrous to swap one into a 3 gen.
the VG is a stout engine and has been pushing 1000+ hp when built for decades.
and don't even begin to bring in Hal's 450hp VQ in this. just exactly how long do those things last? years is not the right answer... anyone can use stock internals and put down 500hp for a few runs, then throw the engine away. the VE and VG will both do it very easily.
the VE uses basically the same bottom end as the VG30DETT (including con rods and bearings).. the crank girdle is exactly the same on them, and the only real differences are the lack of oil squirters and the crank differences on the snout to accept a timing chain setup instead of the belt on the VG. otherwise it's the same forged crank design and everything. and people like SGP racing build "streetable" VG30DETTs at 600+hp all day long.. they are pushing those numbers with built VQs as well, but the simple facts of the matter on those are:
1. the parts prices are outrageous
2. it won't (easily) work in a 3 gen
3. and the VQ has serious computer tuning issues because of the OBD-II. the VG/VE ECUs are well known and easy to modify, so that makes tuning a snap by a properly equipped and staffed shop.
thus it's easier to get more reliable power out of a VE for $xxx than it is for a VQ for $xxx in the 3 gen Maxima.
am I saying you should remove the VQ from a 4 or 5 gen or a 350Z? no. I'm saying it would be ludicrous to swap one into a 3 gen.
12-26-2005, 06:23 AM
#110
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
the VE/VG > VQ statement is simply based on the history of these engines.
the VG is a stout engine and has been pushing 1000+ hp when built for decades.
the VG is a stout engine and has been pushing 1000+ hp when built for decades.
and don't even begin to bring in Hal's 450hp VQ in this. just exactly how long do those things last? years is not the right answer... anyone can use stock internals and put down 500hp for a few runs, then throw the engine away. the VE and VG will both do it very easily.
Good reading indeed...
the VE uses basically the same bottom end as the VG30DETT (including con rods and bearings).. the crank girdle is exactly the same on them, and the only real differences are the lack of oil squirters and the crank differences on the snout to accept a timing chain setup instead of the belt on the VG. otherwise it's the same forged crank design and everything. and people like SGP racing build "streetable" VG30DETTs at 600+hp all day long.. they are pushing those numbers with built VQs as well, but the simple facts of the matter on those are:
1. the parts prices are outrageous
2. it won't (easily) work in a 3 gen
3. and the VQ has serious computer tuning issues because of the OBD-II. the VG/VE ECUs are well known and easy to modify, so that makes tuning a snap by a properly equipped and staffed shop.
thus it's easier to get more reliable power out of a VE for $xxx than it is for a VQ for $xxx in the 3 gen Maxima.
am I saying you should remove the VQ from a 4 or 5 gen or a 350Z? no. I'm saying it would be ludicrous to swap one into a 3 gen.
1. the parts prices are outrageous
2. it won't (easily) work in a 3 gen
3. and the VQ has serious computer tuning issues because of the OBD-II. the VG/VE ECUs are well known and easy to modify, so that makes tuning a snap by a properly equipped and staffed shop.
thus it's easier to get more reliable power out of a VE for $xxx than it is for a VQ for $xxx in the 3 gen Maxima.
am I saying you should remove the VQ from a 4 or 5 gen or a 350Z? no. I'm saying it would be ludicrous to swap one into a 3 gen.
12-26-2005, 08:11 AM
#111
I consider none of Hal's setups to be everyday-daily-driver reliable. "it was still with me when I stopped beating on it" doesn't say that to me. sure he made "MANY" highway runs and several passes at the dragstrip, but that doesn't mean it's reliable and will last more than a couple of months being daily driven on stock internals.
you simply can't put out 600+hp at the crank for long on an engine that was designed for 200hp daily..
built vs built, there is no comparison, because then it becomes a money issue.
$ for $ though, the VE will easily give the VQ a run for the money because of the insane prices on parts for the VQ.
VE pistons, $500. VQ pistons are $1000.
rods for VE are $600. VQ rods are $1100.
and etc etc etc.
both great engines though and, and we can find fault in either and pick nits all day. truth be told, they are both good engines and can easily make enough power to blow up a nissan tranny at will.
you simply can't put out 600+hp at the crank for long on an engine that was designed for 200hp daily..
built vs built, there is no comparison, because then it becomes a money issue.
$ for $ though, the VE will easily give the VQ a run for the money because of the insane prices on parts for the VQ.
VE pistons, $500. VQ pistons are $1000.
rods for VE are $600. VQ rods are $1100.
and etc etc etc.
both great engines though and, and we can find fault in either and pick nits all day. truth be told, they are both good engines and can easily make enough power to blow up a nissan tranny at will.
12-26-2005, 08:23 AM
#112
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
I consider none of Hal's setups to be everyday-daily-driver reliable. "it was still with me when I stopped beating on it" doesn't say that to me. sure he made "MANY" highway runs and several passes at the dragstrip, but that doesn't mean it's reliable and will last more than a couple of months being daily driven on stock internals.
you simply can't put out 600+hp at the crank for long on an engine that was designed for 200hp daily..
built vs built, there is no comparison, because then it becomes a money issue.
$ for $ though, the VE will easily give the VQ a run for the money because of the insane prices on parts for the VQ.
VE pistons, $500. VQ pistons are $1000.
rods for VE are $600. VQ rods are $1100.
and etc etc etc.
$ for $ though, the VE will easily give the VQ a run for the money because of the insane prices on parts for the VQ.
VE pistons, $500. VQ pistons are $1000.
rods for VE are $600. VQ rods are $1100.
and etc etc etc.
both great engines though and, and we can find fault in either and pick nits all day. truth be told, they are both good engines and can easily make enough power to blow up a nissan tranny at will.
12-26-2005, 08:51 AM
#113
Just because a head may flow better out of the box doesn't mean the other can't be improved to flow the same if not better. IMO the truth in that relies in working both heads and then doing flow bench comparisons. IMO a VQ doesn't have better knock supression than a VE, they both have pentroof chambers. I would think you could build a VE with lighter rotating parts for the same or less than what VQ ones would cost. You can put anti-friction coatings in any engine. You can micropolish cams and cranks from any engine. The only real advantage I see in the VQ is the weight savings.
12-26-2005, 09:10 AM
#114
Originally Posted by nismology
Still all theory. No one would think that the stock VQ35 block and crank were good for 1000+ HP either. Real-world date > * like JClaw said earlier.
how many G35s and 350Zs do you see out there putting down 11 sec (or less) 1/4 mile times on a daily driven engine that isn't rebuilt once a year. you see it all the time in the Z32. There's real-world stuff for you. not just one guy that had an engine still running after 6 months of blowing up trannies.
12-26-2005, 10:54 AM
#115
Originally Posted by Grace_Imports
Just because a head may flow better out of the box doesn't mean the other can't be improved to flow the same if not better. IMO the truth in that relies in working both heads and then doing flow bench comparisons.
IMO a VQ doesn't have better knock supression than a VE, they both have pentroof chambers.
I would think you could build a VE with lighter rotating parts for the same or less than what VQ ones would cost. You can put anti-friction coatings in any engine. You can micropolish cams and cranks from any engine. The only real advantage I see in the VQ is the weight savings.
12-26-2005, 10:56 AM
#116
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
you're arguing the same point as me. I'm telling you real-world data of VGs putting out way more than VQs in daily-driven Zs, and you're still arguing with me.
how many G35s and 350Zs do you see out there putting down 11 sec (or less) 1/4 mile times on a daily driven engine that isn't rebuilt once a year. you see it all the time in the Z32. There's real-world stuff for you. not just one guy that had an engine still running after 6 months of blowing up trannies.
how many G35s and 350Zs do you see out there putting down 11 sec (or less) 1/4 mile times on a daily driven engine that isn't rebuilt once a year. you see it all the time in the Z32. There's real-world stuff for you. not just one guy that had an engine still running after 6 months of blowing up trannies.
12-26-2005, 12:32 PM
#117
[QUOTE=nismology]The VQ's head could be improved upon as well.
I didn't say that the VQ couldn't be improved upon. This is what I said...
Just because a head may flow better out of the box doesn't mean the other can't be improved to flow the same if not better. IMO the truth in that relies in working both heads and then doing flow bench comparisons.
IMO open deck is a weak spot and doesn't guarantee superior cooling. I don't know of the VG/VE family ever having cooling issues because of having a closed deck. The metal at the deck could be more of a heat sink. The biggest adavntage of open deck is that it is cheaper to mass produce. If there is any proven cooling advantage a VQ has with it's open deck, I would say it's negligible.
Getting shafts polished at a machine shop is inexpensive. Spending extra money to get something coated will probably not outweigh how much more expensive VQ parts are.
I didn't say that the VQ couldn't be improved upon. This is what I said...
Just because a head may flow better out of the box doesn't mean the other can't be improved to flow the same if not better. IMO the truth in that relies in working both heads and then doing flow bench comparisons.
IMO open deck is a weak spot and doesn't guarantee superior cooling. I don't know of the VG/VE family ever having cooling issues because of having a closed deck. The metal at the deck could be more of a heat sink. The biggest adavntage of open deck is that it is cheaper to mass produce. If there is any proven cooling advantage a VQ has with it's open deck, I would say it's negligible.
Getting shafts polished at a machine shop is inexpensive. Spending extra money to get something coated will probably not outweigh how much more expensive VQ parts are.
12-26-2005, 01:41 PM
#119
I miss my VE
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 2,553
Originally Posted by nismology
My point is you don't have sufficient info to validate your "the VE has more potential than the VQ" statement.
This may not mean anything, but if my memory serves me correctly, the VE was a more expensive design at a time when things were cheaper. The VQ was made when Nissan was broke as a joke is what I read. So which design would you go for? Im assuming the more popular one?
12-26-2005, 02:20 PM
#120
I agree that the VTC issue left the VE a big black eye but I think the debate started as which could be built up to a high horse monster practically. A lot of VG30DE parts work in the VE and the VG30DE is cheaper to build than a VQ. I am not taking away from the merits of the VQ. There is a lot less interest in developing the VE than the VQ and I think it makes it harder to argue the VE as being a viable foundation to build up. If I was building a high RPM/HP VE, I would probably delete the VTC feature anyway. I think it could be done without great expense.