R12 vs r134 systems
07-13-2006, 10:57 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
R12 vs r134 systems
Well the maxima runs good, and is alot smoother then my 240, and the AC works-most of the time. It cycles and off at very long intervals, probably 1-3min on then 1-3min off. I have a 1990 era r12 system, but I work at advance auto now so I can get the conversion kit and R134 for a decent price, and that would be a good idea because then I can recharge any where and not worry about not getting a can of R12, which I do have one can of.
Im pulling the motor in a week or 2 to swap for a lower milage one, and then Im going to change the timing belt, water pump, timing belt etc, and it would be a good time to convert. BUT I know R-134 doesnt blow as cold or as quick in a R-12 spec system as R-12 does. So how much diffrent is the compressor, drier and evap and all the other parts, or can I use some pieces of a R134 system to "upgrade" to get the colder temps out of R134.
Or could all this be a bad sensor? I really need to take it to a shop to check out the AC system....
~Alex
Im pulling the motor in a week or 2 to swap for a lower milage one, and then Im going to change the timing belt, water pump, timing belt etc, and it would be a good time to convert. BUT I know R-134 doesnt blow as cold or as quick in a R-12 spec system as R-12 does. So how much diffrent is the compressor, drier and evap and all the other parts, or can I use some pieces of a R134 system to "upgrade" to get the colder temps out of R134.
Or could all this be a bad sensor? I really need to take it to a shop to check out the AC system....
~Alex
07-13-2006, 11:23 AM
#2
Originally Posted by Alex_V
Well the maxima runs good, and is alot smoother then my 240, and the AC works-most of the time. It cycles and off at very long intervals, probably 1-3min on then 1-3min off. I have a 1990 era r12 system, but I work at advance auto now so I can get the conversion kit and R134 for a decent price, and that would be a good idea because then I can recharge any where and not worry about not getting a can of R12, which I do have one can of.
Im pulling the motor in a week or 2 to swap for a lower milage one, and then Im going to change the timing belt, water pump, timing belt etc, and it would be a good time to convert. BUT I know R-134 doesnt blow as cold or as quick in a R-12 spec system as R-12 does. So how much diffrent is the compressor, drier and evap and all the other parts, or can I use some pieces of a R134 system to "upgrade" to get the colder temps out of R134.
Or could all this be a bad sensor? I really need to take it to a shop to check out the AC system....
~Alex
Im pulling the motor in a week or 2 to swap for a lower milage one, and then Im going to change the timing belt, water pump, timing belt etc, and it would be a good time to convert. BUT I know R-134 doesnt blow as cold or as quick in a R-12 spec system as R-12 does. So how much diffrent is the compressor, drier and evap and all the other parts, or can I use some pieces of a R134 system to "upgrade" to get the colder temps out of R134.
Or could all this be a bad sensor? I really need to take it to a shop to check out the AC system....
~Alex
07-13-2006, 04:34 PM
#3
my .02
my 92 VE still has it's original A/C charge and it works fine
my 96 I30 has no A/C charge and won't even keep one.
The only time I've had to recharge an R12 system is when there had been damage to the system
I've had to recharge most of my R134a systems
If I have R12 I'll stay with it.
my 92 VE still has it's original A/C charge and it works fine
my 96 I30 has no A/C charge and won't even keep one.
The only time I've had to recharge an R12 system is when there had been damage to the system
I've had to recharge most of my R134a systems
If I have R12 I'll stay with it.
07-13-2006, 05:51 PM
#4
If it's cycling on and off it's beause of the low pressure sensor. The reason it'll run for a few and then off is because when it's off the freon pressure climbs making it think there is enough pressure. When the compressor runs and cools the freon dropes in pressure.
I'm in the middle of swapping r12 to r-134a. Just because I got a r-134a compressor and r12 is really expensive, not to mention bad for the ozone(some crap like that).
What I do know.
Compressors swap with no problem. (fitment wise)
The Existing r-12 lines will connect and seal with an r-134a compressor.
The r-134a has a thicker low pressure line(thats the fat hose)
And and evaperators are different.
Now I havn't even looked at the dryers.
I think just swapping the compressor will work. I was about to put r-134a into the system. BUT my clutch failed on my way to get the freon. Sweet huh?
I'm in the middle of swapping r12 to r-134a. Just because I got a r-134a compressor and r12 is really expensive, not to mention bad for the ozone(some crap like that).
What I do know.
Compressors swap with no problem. (fitment wise)
The Existing r-12 lines will connect and seal with an r-134a compressor.
The r-134a has a thicker low pressure line(thats the fat hose)
And and evaperators are different.
Now I havn't even looked at the dryers.
I think just swapping the compressor will work. I was about to put r-134a into the system. BUT my clutch failed on my way to get the freon. Sweet huh?
07-13-2006, 07:59 PM
#5
I miss my VE
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 2,553
At the shop I work at, my damn boss gave me 134 instead of the left over 12 he had right next to him. Even though it was free, Im about to make him redo it since I hear the R12 should work better in my system.
What are these conversion kits you guys talkin about? With them, the r134 should work better in our cars?
What are these conversion kits you guys talkin about? With them, the r134 should work better in our cars?
07-13-2006, 08:23 PM
#6
Originally Posted by VEvolution
At the shop I work at, my damn boss gave me 134 instead of the left over 12 he had right next to him. Even though it was free, Im about to make him redo it since I hear the R12 should work better in my system.
What are these conversion kits you guys talkin about? With them, the r134 should work better in our cars?
What are these conversion kits you guys talkin about? With them, the r134 should work better in our cars?
....And you shouldn't mix r12 aqnd r-134 because it can become acidic and eat your lines.
07-13-2006, 08:57 PM
#7
I miss my VE
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 2,553
Originally Posted by therealgoon9
Ask him how much r12 cost per pound.
....And you shouldn't mix r12 aqnd r-134 because it can become acidic and eat your lines.
....And you shouldn't mix r12 aqnd r-134 because it can become acidic and eat your lines.
Thanks for the info.. Im pretty sure he told me he vacuumed though.
07-14-2006, 05:58 AM
#9
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Posts: n/a
R12 it is then. My friend was saying R134 leaks very easy, and when he worked (hes a truck driver) he said all the trucks needed to be recharged every year. If thats true, wouldn't R134 be more harmful, because it needs to be replaced every year? Gee what a great law huh.
therealgoon- are you saying I need to change the low pressure sensor or just charge it or both?
~Alex
therealgoon- are you saying I need to change the low pressure sensor or just charge it or both?
~Alex
07-14-2006, 11:45 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Alex_V
R12 it is then. My friend was saying R134 leaks very easy, and when he worked (hes a truck driver) he said all the trucks needed to be recharged every year. If thats true, wouldn't R134 be more harmful, because it needs to be replaced every year? Gee what a great law huh.
therealgoon- are you saying I need to change the low pressure sensor or just charge it or both?
~Alex
therealgoon- are you saying I need to change the low pressure sensor or just charge it or both?
~Alex
I donno what you mean by charging 'them both'
Btw, r12 has cfc's. Which is harmful, r-134 doesn't.
07-14-2006, 05:53 PM
#11
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Posts: n/a
I ment do both, as in charge the system with r12 and get a new sensor.
I knew that if the system was low on freon, it would turn on, pressure builds/drops/whatever, then turns off, pressure goes to normal etc etc. I didnt know if a falty switch would cause that. So Ill charge the system with r12 and go from there.
Next Q, what tools do I need to charge the system and if useding old ones is it possible for them to leak?
~Alex
I knew that if the system was low on freon, it would turn on, pressure builds/drops/whatever, then turns off, pressure goes to normal etc etc. I didnt know if a falty switch would cause that. So Ill charge the system with r12 and go from there.
Next Q, what tools do I need to charge the system and if useding old ones is it possible for them to leak?
~Alex
07-14-2006, 07:25 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Alex_V
I ment do both, as in charge the system with r12 and get a new sensor.
I knew that if the system was low on freon, it would turn on, pressure builds/drops/whatever, then turns off, pressure goes to normal etc etc. I didnt know if a falty switch would cause that. So Ill charge the system with r12 and go from there.
Next Q, what tools do I need to charge the system and if useding old ones is it possible for them to leak?
~Alex
I knew that if the system was low on freon, it would turn on, pressure builds/drops/whatever, then turns off, pressure goes to normal etc etc. I didnt know if a falty switch would cause that. So Ill charge the system with r12 and go from there.
Next Q, what tools do I need to charge the system and if useding old ones is it possible for them to leak?
~Alex
Gauges(not the r-134 gauges at autozone, they won't fit) The type that they use on residential systems. I have access to a set because I do hvac.
Hook the blue line from the gauges to the low side line(the fat one)
Hook the yellow line to a vaccum pump, open the gauge, turn on pump till it pulls down to -20 pounds. Close gauge. Turn off pump. Let it sit for an hour and check to make sure it's not leaking. It'll still say -20 if it's not leaking.
Next unscrew the pump and hook up your tank of r-12 to the yellow line.
Open the tank.
Start car, set it on ac, turn the vents all the way up.
Open the gauge and let it fill to the right ammount.
Now, I still have not ever charged a car without assistance. And don't know exactly what pressure to set it at. What I was going to do is check the outdoor air temp, and make sure the vents where 30 degrees cooler.
Note: I do not hold any responsibility for you messing up your car. This is information that i've been gathering, and plan to do as soon as I get my car runnning again. If you are caught handling freon without some certification, you can be prosecuted. This is at your own risk..
07-27-2006, 03:07 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ever heard of http://autorefrigerants.com? They claim to have a safe version of R-12 and its even colder then R-12 and R-134. They sell alot of great stuff it seems like.
Oh and my A/C will run as long as I want on the 3rd fan speed but only for a few min on the 4th. I looked at the bottom of the AC compressor when I changed the altinator and there was alot of dirt on the bottom of it, much like an oil and dirt stained engine.
I just need to go to a AC shop and ask them I guess.
~Alex
Oh and my A/C will run as long as I want on the 3rd fan speed but only for a few min on the 4th. I looked at the bottom of the AC compressor when I changed the altinator and there was alot of dirt on the bottom of it, much like an oil and dirt stained engine.
I just need to go to a AC shop and ask them I guess.
~Alex
07-28-2006, 08:36 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Darkwing48
What the heck are you guys talking about?
R12, R134?
R12, R134?
http://www.google.com/
07-28-2006, 06:19 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 563
R-12 is much more effecient than R134a. From what I've heard R-12 lasts longer on a single charge. I also read somewhere that they discontinued the making of R-12 because of pollution issuses but before they did they made a mass quanity of it, so you can still find it, it just costs you alot. The R134a molocules are alot smaller so it will leak easier. I'd go with another R-12 recharge except you won't always be able to find it, so maybe a conversion wouldn't hurt now.
07-28-2006, 06:54 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Jon94SE
R-12 is much more effecient than R134a. From what I've heard R-12 lasts longer on a single charge. I also read somewhere that they discontinued the making of R-12 because of pollution issuses but before they did they made a mass quanity of it, so you can still find it, it just costs you alot. The R134a molocules are alot smaller so it will leak easier. I'd go with another R-12 recharge except you won't always be able to find it, so maybe a conversion wouldn't hurt now.
07-29-2006, 03:20 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Jon94SE
R-12 is much more effecient than R134a. From what I've heard R-12 lasts longer on a single charge. I also read somewhere that they discontinued the making of R-12 because of pollution issuses but before they did they made a mass quanity of it, so you can still find it, it just costs you alot. The R134a molocules are alot smaller so it will leak easier. I'd go with another R-12 recharge except you won't always be able to find it, so maybe a conversion wouldn't hurt now.
But hey, great information from everyone. I am really interested in http://autorefrigerants.com I may try that when my 92's R12 runs non-cold. I am amazed at Nissan quality once again, as that car is what 14 years old, and still has the original AC charge. I have seen a 98 cavalier hold up worst.
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