CBRKelly

Hey folks,

Got a VG30E in my car... just recently i noticed it was dropping water just behind the front right wheel.... funnily enough, not when you're driving it, rather when its been sitting in the driveway for a few days you'll see a small puddle of water there, and the overflow bottle will be down to min...

With further investigation, it's been said to me by 2 seperate mechanics that my water pump is leaking and needs replacing.. this is very annoying as the timing belt was replaced a mere 3,000kms ago and the labour costs an arm and a leg.. i'd have done it myself but im not in the least bit mechanically minded.

Anyway, i've got it booked in to have the pump replaced early next week but the reason i thought i'd post this is because ive noticed something else starting to happen around the same time the water pump started leaking... whether or not its linked i dont know.

This doesnt always happen every day, but its becoming more frequent. Basically when you start the car for the first time on a given day, around 20ish seconds into the warmup period i start to hear a very loud ticking/tapping sort of noise which sounds very much like its coming from the front RIGHT hand area (same side as the water pump?) .... i am absolutely certain it ISNT lifters as ive heard bad lifters on a car before, its louder for a start, and the ticking is quick, but random.. not a tick.tick.tick.tick.tick like lifters do, rather a tickticktick<delay for half a sec>tick...ticktick.....tick.ticktickticktick....t ick... so its quite random and abrupt.... it does it even when i pull away and drive up the road slowly (extremely loud with the front windows down) ... and as the car's temp gauge reaches almost half way (full operating temp - this takes around 5 to 7 full minutes) this strange tick/clicking dissapears, and you wont hear it for the rest of the day!

When this extremely loud noise is apparent, there's no misfire or anything from the engine, its perfectly smooth, just this noise goes with it :S

What the hell could it be?? can a failing water pump contribute to any of this or is it just coincidence that this problem's surfaced at the same time ??

Oh, meant to also add that the click/ticking seems to occur even quicker with more revs, be it under acceleration or higher revs in neutral, probably due to more pressure or something?


Thanks for your input folks.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

Ticks get more frequent due to higher RPM, not pressure. If it vanishes once the engine is warm then most likely it is just something worn down due to time/mileage and settles in once everything expands. I wish I could help further but I dont know the VG very well.

Regarding the water pump, that really sucks about the labor. I never understood why they must replace the entire pump instead of just the seal, seems like a rip-off.

CBRKelly

Mmmm..

This is the kind of noise you dont just leave due to wear... it's way too obxnoxious and horrifically loud for that... its not like anything ive heard on any car before.... It would be impossible to live with, its loud enough to turn heads all the way up the street.

Not to mention my cars been whisper quiet since i've had it.. no lifter noise, nothing.. and i'll just add that ive only done 8,000kms on it since ive had it, i barely use it.... this noise has only surfaced like 2 weeks ago.. out of the blue.

I desperately want it delt with and absolutely refuse to leave it like it is.... i've actually done a search for "ticking water pump" and "clicking water pump" on google with several results indicating that old / failing water pumps do in fact make such a noise, whether its the SAME thing contributing to the noise in my case? i guess time will tell...

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Sounds like broken manifold studs....

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Never heard or heard of a water pump "ticking." I can't see a pump making that noise at the level you describe even if there was mechanical failure of the pump (regarding breaking off of the blades which I've seen happen). Sounds like what many have described in colder winter temperatures pertaining to head/valve noises on start-up and warm-up. Definately check the exhaust manifold for broken studs, should be two per exhaust port (6 total) per head. You might consider adding Gunk Away or something at your next oil change. Helped my wife's VG Max regarding what MAY be the same noise.

mikekantor

iTrader: (5)

You could also try turning the engine manually until you hear something, might help to localize the noise.

CBRKelly

Yeah you could definitely be onto something there, i'll make sure the mech checks them out whilst its up on the hoist getting the water pump changed.

I've also had a mate tell me it might be the "torque convertor" for the tranny... not being mechanically minded all i could do was take it onto possible consideration, hence im asking you guys, what is the likeliness of it being that?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Well,personally i have never heard a torque converter "tick".

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

You said the noise was coming from the passenger side though, not tranny. I don't think this is it, but I had an odd engine noise in my Dodge van. It ended up being a belt that was starting to shred and the stray peice would slap around from time to time as the engine ran. This issue sounded like a "tick" as the rubber belt smacked the surrounding metal objects. Just something simple you can inspect yourself.

CBRKelly

Cool, hopefully its something simple like that, then it should be a relatively cheap fix.

The car's actually gone in to the mechanics early.. it was dropped off last night, havent heard from him yet but he said he'll have a good look at the manifold studs for me, and is obviously replacing the water pump (around $500 labour, aussie dollars.. ouch!) ... so hopefully he finds this noise in his tracks....

decus

Damn...I would have flown down to melb and done it for you for less than $500

CBRKelly

Damnit, and I would've taken you up on it too, cos it would've meant i could sit there, watch you.. and learn a bit more about how to break into the motor a bit / do some maintenance.. as i am CLUELESS...

The thing is, i'd gotten 3 seperate quotes, this guy was the cheapest of them all.. i even rang Nissan to get their opinion on whats involved, they were dearer then the 3 quotes (surprise surprise), but yeah.. the "general consensus" for water pump change is that its classed as a major job, you have to break into the timing belt area (big job in itself), remove that.. before you can then deal with removing the water pump... seems it varies between 500 and 650AUD $ labour....

While i think of it, to change water pump, is it required that one has to flush out all the coolant from the radiator / system? otherwise it would fly out and make a big mess when you extract the pump??

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

You'll have to do drain the coolant system becuase you are removing the upper radiator hose on that side to access the belts and timing cover below it. Also good idea to avoid getting unnecessary coolant in/on the accesseries in that area, specifically the timing belt and such.

rimaximaman

Exhaust Manifold Leak!

Alex_V

did you change the tensioner when the belt was changed? I just did my belt/wp/tenioner at once and it looked like the tensioner was about to rust together and fail. If you havn't replaced it tell the mechanic to inspect it or just replace it. Its called preventitave mantience.

Oh and becareful of the mechanic that did the t-belt job, a good mechanic would have sudgested to do the w/p as well to save your self some money. That guy was looking for a easy buck.

~Alex

sonicii

As a start, I would remove the belts one at a time and see if the noise disappears, remember not to run the engine too long without the water pump belt connected, or you will overheat the engine (keep and eye on the temp gauge). This should tell you if it is an external component or not.

As others have said, it could be an exhaust manifold leak, but I would expect that right from startup, and a manifold leak should get considerably louder as you put the engine under load (eg, accelerating from stop). But will often go away once the engine warms up.

Greg.

sonicii

hey Decus.. another Townsvillian on the org.. what are the chances!!

CBRKelly

Well folks, got a hell of an update on this.....

My mechanic (not the one that replaced the timing belt nearly 12 months ago - a mere 3,000kms travelled since), had taken off the timing belt cover to do the water pump job this morning.... and this is what he was greeted with on my babied meticulously maintained VG30E............................










As you can see, the (only 3,000km old) timing belt is a mess... see how its pushed itself across, hard against the inside covers? its been perishing and leaving bits of belt EVERYWHERE... its even cracked at one point crossways so it was about to break!!!!! If i didnt have this water pump leak or mysterious loud tick noise when cold, i wouldnt have even taken it to the mechanic, and to think i would've kept driving it like this......

The scum that replaced it such a short time ago have either a) deliberately done a botch job so that they could rip me off with a brand new engine (ie. laid an egg in my car) or b) are so incompetent and careless with their quality of work that their business should be shut down permanently.

Whats caused the belt to pull hard inwards (so my current mech tells me) is that the cog (third picture down) at the very bottom, is too far inward, it's supposed to have a spacer or something there.. and that cog down there is misaligned with the bigger ones up higher, the belt has pulled itself inward as a result and started chaffing badly.....

Also, when he first pulled the timing belt cover off.. a decent sized nut fell out onto the ground!!!! Imagine if that nut managed to get itself wedged in between the belt and a cog with the engine running.......!!!! Makes me SICK... i bet thats what the ticking noise has been all this time as well??? Though its odd that the ticking only kept happening whilst the car was warming up, after 5 mins+ on the road it would dissapear..... would that suggest the ticking has nothing to do with this timing belt mess / loose nut in the cover area??

So yeah, im up for another new timing belt even though the one thats on it is brand new... along with the new water pump, seals, and spacer for that bottom cog so that its lined up properly with the other cogs...

I also noticed upon inspection today, that there is a LOT of thick "sludge" in there, im guessing thats a mixture of eaten up belt shavings, and oil or coolant?? oil isnt meant to be in the timing belt area is it? I wasnt sure if the area is typically ok to be dirty.... it was like a dogs breakfast in there!


And before you ask, yes I will be confronting the botchy mechanics (whom i havent delt with since the cam belt change back in feb 2006) and will be throwing them a formal letter along with printouts of the photos asking them to provide me with compensation for this disaster (in which they f'in well charged me $800 to replace mind you, and not bothered to do the water pump while they were in there!) ... and if they dont agree or refuse to take responsibility for having left my car in such a state, then consumer affairs will step in and take over the reigns.. i've spoken to consumer affairs already and lodged the complaint, but they said i needed to confront the botchy mechanic myself first, to see what they're prepared to do / if they will take responsibility for what they've done.

/time to go and sulk again..... my baby's in a real state But i guess i should be thankful the belt miracuously held together and my engine is still in good health..... if that water pump wasnt leaking, i'd never have found this out.... and i think its safe to say before long my low km engine (100,000 miles) would be ruined from a broken belt....

ugh!!!

Alex_V

They definitly wanted your car back for more work GL with the legal stuff and I hope you get some/all of your money back!

~Alex

Chris Gregg

iTrader: (59)

Just make sure you stick with the facts related to the "damage." Forget the water pump issue and focus on the unprofessional installation of the belt contributing to premature wear and damage to the new belt. Document mileage on car and hopefully you did so as a reference when the belt was originanally replaced. Images worth 1k words. May also note loose nut behind cover as part of inattentiveness to workmanship. I would recommend you also have the current mechanic document to these specific issues, sing, and date. To try and address other issues like "why didn't they do my waterpump too" just makes it look like your out to gain and bringing up ridiculous accusations. Fact is most mechanics do what you tell them to do. Good mechanics go the extra step as a professional and make intellegent recommendations to save "you" money. Just my opinion. Dealt with similiar issues myself. Good luck.